Newb needs help with AI (B spec?)

[Placid Liver]

Hello everyone

I am pleased and proud to be an official member of the GT4 gang - after years of just being a GT mooch and playing friend's/family's systems, I have my own PS2 and GT4 and all the responsibilities associated (I'd never had to do licenses before, just jumped in and drove cool cars ).

Anyway, so licenses are done and now I need cash for the garage. I've done the Costa di malfi race where you win the Toyota rally car a few times but I'm getting bored; apparently the German touring car series is good money and you just let the AI driver win the races. I went and got the Audi touring car, figured out how to get B spec active... but the dude sucked! He just came last, barely managed one overtake attempt.
Do I have to train the AI? let it race more before trying a serious race like the German series? How does it work??

I apologize if this question is retarded simple - I have read some FAQs and am still reading, but I can't search for "AI"...

 

[daan]

I have read some FAQs and am still reading, but I can't search for "AI"...

Notes on maximising B spec points from the FAQs.

 

[Placid Liver]

ok, I'd read that but it didn't make much sense. Do I have to take the AI to special races? Does it need to build experience?

 

[BobK]

I'm afraid that training your B-spec driver won't help much. I doubt that he'd be able to win the DTM even at 10,000 B-spec points with a stock car unless you micromanaged the race, in which case you might as well just go ahead and drive it yourself.

However, if you slap a Stage 4 turbo on the car, your B-spec driver will have a much easier time of it.

 

[GTsail]

I concur with BobK --

Training your B-spec Bob will help, but even with training Bob will struggle against the AI unless your car is significantly better than the competition. So slap on the turbo or NA upgrade!

Also, you should usually go one grade softer with your tires, unless its a long race where the tires wear out too fast and require an extra pit stop.

Finally, make sure you clicked on the "overtake" button or your B-spec Bob will just stay behind the other cars.

Good luck,
GTsail290

 

[Seismica]

ok, I'd read that but it didn't make much sense. Do I have to take the AI to special races? Does it need to build experience?

Everytime you race your driver will gain experience/points.

If you have a hard time winning it on B-spec, tune the car a little.

Though if i remember rightly, the first race in the DTM event is Opera Paris, and i notice the B-spec driver seriously struggles to overtake here. For this track its best to qualify first. For the others, just set the car to overtake and max pace and set the speed to x3 and go get a drink, easy peasy. If you are at risk of losing by the last race, intervene by doing it yourself. I guess whether you win or not depends on the AI lineup. If you get a TT-R at the front of the pack, your B-spec driver is going to lose if his skill level is low.

(If you're playing the NTSC-J or -NA version, its best not to race on DTM due to the CLK GTR, so you would have to tune your car a lot, i'd suggest only using this if you have the PAL version)

 

[Austin343]

Though if i remember rightly, the first race in the DTM event is Opera Paris, and i notice the B-spec driver seriously struggles to overtake here. For this track its best to qualify first. For the others, just set the car to overtake and max pace and set the speed to x3 and go get a drink, easy peasy.

Actually, if all that matters to you is to earn money as efficiently as possible, then the best tactic is not to race at Opera at all. Just begin the race and then immediately exit; you won't win without qualifying, and because B-Spec is guaranteed to win at all of the other tracks, a championship victory is still certain. The winnings from the Opera Paris race pale in comparison to the time that you waste qualifying and watching Bob drive away from the pack.

And Seismica, it's only in the Asian versions of GT4 that the CLK appears. NTSC-U/C drivers have the exact same opponents as PAL drivers do.

 

[Seismica]

Actually, if all that matters to you is to earn money as efficiently as possible, then the best tactic is not to race at Opera at all. Just begin the race and then immediately exit; you won't win without qualifying, and because B-Spec is guaranteed to win at all of the other tracks, a championship victory is still certain. The winnings from the Opera Paris race pale in comparison to the time that you waste qualifying and watching Bob drive away from the pack.

And Seismica, it's only in the Asian versions of GT4 that the CLK appears. NTSC-U/C drivers have the exact same opponents as PAL drivers do.

Ah well i suppose that works. Though i was referring to using a stock car when i mentioned qualifying/intervening because thats what i've been doing recently, with each touring car, because i found it quite fun, and my B-spec driver always struggles on Opera.

And i didn't know the specifics of the lineups, i assumed PAL at least fixed the CLK GTR problem but i didn't know about the other versions.

 

[Placid Liver]

Hi

I thought rather then start a new thread I'll just update and add in here.

Firstly, my AI driver is awesome now

My questions is regarding tuning - the process of buying and adding components. For example, if I buy an intercooler and fit it when I don't have a turbo, does the power increase still apply? Also, do things like this need to be purchased in the correct sequence or does it not matter?

 

[GTsail]

Hi

I thought rather then start a new thread I'll just update and add in here.

Firstly, my AI driver is awesome now

My questions is regarding tuning - the process of buying and adding components. For example, if I buy an intercooler and fit it when I don't have a turbo, does the power increase still apply? Also, do things like this need to be purchased in the correct sequence or does it not matter?

Slightly off topic ....

The game allows you to add and subtract any upgrades in any order. So its perfectly acceptable to have the Stage 3 turbo and have no intercoolers, or have the Stage 2 intercooler and no turbo at all (assuming these upgrades are available for the car you are driving), and your car will have the HP boost that comes with the specific upgrade.

However, the game won't allow you to have both a turbo and a NA tune upgrade installed at the same time (its either one or the other). The game will actually un-install the conflicting upgrade when you install the other one. You won't lose the upgrade that gets un-installed, it will still be available if you want it for your next race.

The only exception to this scenario that I know of is the weight reduction stages. You have to perform these in order (first stage 1, then stage 2, then stage 3), and you can not reverse these weight reductions after the installation.

Once you throw out the back seats, some GT4 gnome carts them off, and you will never see them again. Just PD doing its part for the environment.

Good luck,
GTsail290

 

[Placid Liver]

Hi, I have another question regarding B-spec so I thought I'd add it here:

when you're racing B-spec, in the "data" screen (i.e. the one where you can go 3x, not the live view), sometimes where it shows the gaps between cars, above the cars an orange triangle will appear and sometimes eventually disappear over certain cars. What is this representing? It sometimes appears over my car too, when I haven't done anything?

And if I could squeeze in a bonus Q - the AI driver often has difficulty in race 1 (Opera) of the German touring series, is this generally an issue or is there something I'm doing wrong?

 

[Shoogar]

Hi, I have another question regarding B-spec so I thought I'd add it here:

when you're racing B-spec, in the "data" screen (i.e. the one where you can go 3x, not the live view), sometimes where it shows the gaps between cars, above the cars an orange triangle will appear and sometimes eventually disappear over certain cars. What is this representing? It sometimes appears over my car too, when I haven't done anything?

And if I could squeeze in a bonus Q - the AI driver often has difficulty in race 1 (Opera) of the German touring series, is this generally an issue or is there something I'm doing wrong?

Okay, on your first Q, I am pretty sure that means that their catching up quickly on the car in front of them. A good way to avoid this is, when you're leading turn over-take off. It saves your tiers and it leads to 'Bob' driving more defensively.

On your second Q, Bob seems to have issues with driving around Opera. It's the tight corners. So you're not doing anything wrong.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Hi, I have another question regarding B-spec so I thought I'd add it here:

when you're racing B-spec, in the "data" screen (i.e. the one where you can go 3x, not the live view), sometimes where it shows the gaps between cars, above the cars an orange triangle will appear and sometimes eventually disappear over certain cars. What is this representing? It sometimes appears over my car too, when I haven't done anything?

And if I could squeeze in a bonus Q - the AI driver often has difficulty in race 1 (Opera) of the German touring series, is this generally an issue or is there something I'm doing wrong?

A question. Why are you so obsessed with B-spec? If you're bored doing the races yourself, wouldn't having Bob do them be even more boring?

I'm not saying you should never use B-spec, but it seems you're just passing over some of the best racing GT4 has to offer. Just a thought.

To answer your second question: Bob is generally a terrible driver. He's no better than most of the Ai, even when he's got lots of skill points. Anything Bob can do, a human driver should do better.

 

[BobK]

Hi, I have another question regarding B-spec so I thought I'd add it here:

when you're racing B-spec, in the "data" screen (i.e. the one where you can go 3x, not the live view), sometimes where it shows the gaps between cars, above the cars an orange triangle will appear and sometimes eventually disappear over certain cars. What is this representing? It sometimes appears over my car too, when I haven't done anything?

What that specifically means is that the car's last sector time is faster than the sector time of the car immediately ahead of it. In other words, it's gaining on the car ahead.

And if I could squeeze in a bonus Q - the AI driver often has difficulty in race 1 (Opera) of the German touring series, is this generally an issue or is there something I'm doing wrong?

Yeah, as others said, the AI (including the B-Spec driver) drives pretty crappy on this course. In addition, the AI has trouble overtaking on tight courses (like Opera Paris).

A question. Why are you so obsessed with B-spec? If you're bored doing the races yourself, wouldn't having Bob do them be even more boring?

I'm not saying you should never use B-spec, but it seems you're just passing over some of the best racing GT4 has to offer. Just a thought.

Aren't you leaping to a pretty big conclusion here? What makes you think he's "obsessed" with B-Spec? What leads you to conclude he's passing over any A-Spec racing at all? Just because he's asking a couple questions?

To answer your second question: Bob is generally a terrible driver. He's no better than most of the Ai, even when he's got lots of skill points. Anything Bob can do, a human driver should do better.

Actually I like to think I'm a pretty good driver, certainly better than the AI. I'd agree that the B-Spec driver's abilities are a bit lacking, though.

 

[Open Addict]

Okay, on your first Q, I am pretty sure that means that their catching up quickly on the car in front of them. A good way to avoid this is, when you're leading turn over-take off. It saves your tiers and it leads to 'Bob' driving more defensively.

It means that the sector time of the car it appears on top of is fast that the sector time of the car in front. Not really that they are catching quickly, as the triangle can appear if the car is faster by .001 of a second. not exactly fast gaining.

Also you should never turn overtake off, if you are doing an enduro. If you do and you catch a back marker, you will then be stuck behind them unless they make a mistake and Bob accidently passes them. If you get stuck the rest of the field can catch up to you.

On your second Q, Bob seems to have issues with driving around Opera. It's the tight corners. So you're not doing anything wrong.

Bob sucks on almost every course, I have done some b-specing and quite a bit of A-specing (blows trumpet). A human driver can generally go atleast 2-5 seconds quicker than bob on an average course. Then take in to consideration the length of the "ring" and you can get a difference of about 30 seconds.

 

[GTsail]

Greetings fellow B-spec aficionados -

In the interest of science, I took my Audi A4 Touring Car '04 to Opera Paris in the DTM and handed the keys over to B-spec Bob (note: my Bob is quite experienced since he has driven over 450k miles).

My Audi has 484 horsepower and is running on R3 tires. Against an assortment of German and Italian Touring Cars, my Audi was able to reach 4th place by the end of the 6 lap race, and was about 6 seconds behind the winner. I had set the race pace to 4, with overtake on.

So what's the story?

B-spec Bob lost the race because of his method of overtaking.

Bob's standard passing method is as follows:
1) Drive up to the rear bumper of the car in front staying on the racing line.
2) Coast briefly when just behind the car in front and lose momentum
3) Pull out to begin the pass
4) Accelerate to pass the competitor
5) Hope that the pass is done before the next turn, since B-spec Bob is going to brake early going into the next turn.

So why is this a problem at Opera Paris? Because there is really only one straight where Bob can do all these steps and make a pass before the next turn, unless Bob has way more horsepower than the AI.

Even the two cars that Bob passed at Opera Paris were difficult. On both passes the other AI made small mistakes which gave my B-spec Bob a chance to pull up along side while staying pretty much on the standard racing line.

Due to PD programming, B-spec Bob has troubles on all race tracks that have slow and tight turns. Bob almost always brakes too early for most turns and gives up his chance to overtake the competitors in many turns. Only on tracks like La Sarthe is there enough track so Bob can execute his methodical method of passing his competitors.

Do I think that this is a bad thing?

NO!

I am quite pleased that we can drive better than B-spec Bob. If Bob was able to drive better, then what would be the point of us driving A-spec? We could win the game by turning the keys over to Bob and sitting back with our refreshment of choice!

Do I think B-spec Bob was a useful addition to GT4?

YES!

Bob has his uses:
Wearing out cars by driving overnight
A second driver for the long endurance races
Consistent test bed for trying out various cars and tracks
Will repeat races over and over again to earn funds for our car purchases
Is willing to drive cars that we would not want to be caught dead in
Comedic relief when he stuffs himself into a wall!

After the first race, Bob was looking very dejected, so I asked my crew if they had any extra horses in the paddock. They were able to find a stage 3 NA tune which boosted the Audi's horsepower to 654. B-spec Bob entered the race again against the same lineup and was able to easily win with a MOV of 16 seconds

Good luck,
GTsail290

 

[Placid Liver]

A question. Why are you so obsessed with B-spec? If you're bored doing the races yourself, wouldn't having Bob do them be even more boring?

he's just keeping my bank manager happy

Thanks for the replies everyone.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

he's just keeping my bank manager happy

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Cool. No prob.

 

[sgtstix]

i was wondering placid what % complete are you at in the game? because i recently restarted the game and i took a different approach this time by not buying upgrades and using sport tires not racing tires on the production cars but still using racing tires on race cars.