NFS Shift vs GT5 Prologue (sarcasm)

[GTP_RainMan]

The title makes me laugh...

It goes without saying that EA (aka The Borg) had their advertising department running overtime for this game, saying stuff like "simulation", and all that good stuff that gets "our" attention. But at the end, the mistake they made was to release the demo.

They should seriously have changed the name for NFS Blur or NFS Shake, because that's all I saw when I started my first race. I've said it before, with these new graphical capabilities and CPU processing that the consoles are offering right now, there should be a law against the overuse of the "Motion Blur". I'm not a GT "fan boi" but GT5P is the only well crafted racing game out there on console, and it’s the only reference point I have, because frankly, Forza, NFS, and all these other acolyte are just here for the "show" and not for gaming at all... and this new "Shift" game is another proof.

The only thing I can say I liked about it is the default button configuration. it was well tough out. I've transferred it to my GT5P controller setup and it was great, I was able to look left and right while driving, and the breaking and acceleration are more precise due to the pressure trigger.

Now back to "Shift gameplay" again.
They've put an interesting feature that I think GT could have presented better... the "Neutral" position of the gear. When you shift up in a stick shift car, you have a fraction of a second "neutral" before the next gear kicks in. Takes getting used to, but it's close to realty.
I've put the game on PRO driving and had "anti lock brakes" on. The screen was shaking so much, and there was soo much motion blur that you were distracted at 85%... and the car seems to behave on its own sometimes (or maybe it's just me)
The motion blur when you reach 100mph on a straight is sooo cheesy it’s unbelievable...

I invite you guys to download the demo and post up what you think.


I'm pretty sure you'll be typing "Motion blur" and "blur" allot.
I had these words in copy paste while writing this post.

 

[Scaff]

Hmmmmm....

I'm not a GT "fan boi" but GT5P is the only well crafted racing game out there on console, and it’s the only reference point I have, because frankly, Forza, NFS, and all these other acolyte are just here for the "show" and not for gaming at all... and this new "Shift" game is another proof.

....given that you 'comparison' is neither objective or impartial and you clearly state that GT5P is the 'only well crafted racing game out' I would have to disagree and say you sound an awful lot like a fanboy to me.


Scaff

 

[Gejost]

I bought the game and sold it a couple of days later. Not enough cars, shaky camera bothered me, same with the motion blur, online was very limited, etc. but worst of all: the handling of the cars. They should have called it Drift instead of Shift. I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's just not my kind of racer.

 

[GTP_RainMan]

Hmmmmm....



....given that you 'comparison' is neither objective or impartial and you clearly state that GT5P is the 'only well crafted racing game out on console' I would have to disagree and say you sound an awful lot like a fanboy to me.


Scaff

I don,t need to be a fan boy in order to claim that. PD takes an average of 4-5 years to put their games on shelves... and this whole website is proof. Need I say more.


My comparaison was objective: "NFS Shift is all about the hype, made for gamers who (consumes) games instead of enjoying them"
My comparaison was impartial:"NFS Shift has it,s good and bad sides, and I mentions a few of the good sides. The only issue is that that bad was overwelming.

and PS: you don't need to be a fan boy in order to apreciat what is good and well made

 

[Scaff]

I don,t need to be a fan boy in order to claim that. PD takes an average of 4-5 years to put their games on shelves... and this whole website is proof. Need I say more.

I didn't say you needed to be a fanboy, I said you sound like a fanboy, big difference.

I also find it a bit rich that you feel the need to tell me about this site, I have been around here for a while, I do own every GT title and produced a tuning guide series that has been translated into (that I know of) two other languagues.

What you will find on this site is that the vast majority of long-term members would never made a claim as clearly biased as "only well crafted racing game out on console'" (the on console bit doesn't actually make any difference - its as biased with or without it).

If you are that blind to the issues that the GT series clearly has, then yes I am more than happy to stick with my initial impression.

My comparaison was objective: "NFS Shift is all about the hype, made for gamers who (consumes) games instead of enjoying them"
My comparaison was impartial:"NFS Shift has it,s good and bad sides, and I mentions a few of the good sides. The only issue is that that bad was overwelming.

and PS: you don't need to be a fan boy in order to apreciat what is good and well made

Not a bit of your comparison was objective, it didn't address pros and cons on both sides, and was a hatchet job on Shift, that you don't actually see that is the worrying part.

And no you don't need to be a fan-boy to appreciate what is good and well made (and I didn't at any post say anything close to that), however to then dismiss all other racing titles out of hand ("because frankly, Forza, NFS, and all these other acolyte are just here for the "show" and not for gaming at all") does indicate fan-boy tendancies.


Scaff

 

[GTP_RainMan]

I've been here for a while as well... juts under another username. And I’m sorry, I don't have a guide under my name, but I do how ever own every GT title. But I sadly am not a super moderator. Guess my opinion has less value than yours since you win 4-2.

And also, why call me biased when I asked people to download the demo and tell me what they think?
This one escaped me a bit.

And I stick by my claim...
I've tried almost every console racing game out there that claim that they are "simulating" the real thing, and only the GT series came close to their "claim"

Thank you very much for the lecture, but I'm the type of guy who sticks to his point of views until he is proven otherwise.


RainMan.

 

[Scaff]

I've been here for a while as well... juts under another username. And I’m sorry, I don't have a guide under my name, but I do how ever own every GT title. But I sadly am not a super moderator. Guess my opinion has less value than yours since you win 4-2.

Read the PM I have just sent you ASAP, multiple user accounts are not permitted.

I would also love to know exactly what me mod status has to do with anything at all, as a point of fact had I been so 'anti' your post I would have deleted it rather than approving it (as has to be done for all new members posts).

And also, why call me biased when I asked people to download the demo and tell me what they think?
This one escaped me a bit.

At what point did I call you biased because you asked people to donwload the demo and comment on it?

I must have missed saying that myself.

I clearly stated that I considered your comparion to be biased, nothing more.

And I stick by my claim...
I've tried almost every console racing game out there that claim that they are "simulating" the real thing, and only the GT series came close to their "claim"

Feel free to stick by that claim, I'm not saying you have to change you opinion at all, I simple believe that the manner in which you have express that claim is biased and does not it any way address pros and cons on both sides (GT or other titles).

Thank you very much for the lecture, but I'm the type of guy who sticks to his point of views until he is proven otherwise.


RainMan.

Opinions can't be proven so you will be waiting a very long time, I can't tell you that saying "only well crafted racing game out on console'" is wrong any more than you can tell me that disliking celery is wrong.

That however has nothing at all to do with the impression of bias that your original post gives me. As for a this being a lecture, if you have been around these forums for as long as you claim then you would know full well that discussion, disagreement and debate of this nature is quite normal.


Scaff

 

[Dave A]

Not at all GTP_RainMan, your opinion is as valuable as anyones on here, but you haven't expressed your argument in any detail. You've just created a rant at one game and as Scaff said, not discussed the pro's and con's or provided any base to support what you say. At the same time you make a point to say that you are not a GT fanboy.

I love the GT series even if GT4 didn't stir me like GT1-3 and GT5 has, but as much as I like them I still recognise that there are several other great driving sims out there, including console games. Race Pro, Richard Burns Rally, Enthusia come to mind and before you become too dismissive, there's plenty that Forza gets right too, arguabl GT's biggest rival from a fan support point of view.

As I said, I love the GT games, but I don't hide myself from what they don't get right. An opinion is one thing, how you express it is another .

 

[GTP_RainMan]

Thank you for the replies.

No worries guys. I'm an open minded individual, but you need to undertsand that what is good for you:"Race Pro, Richard Burns Rally, Enthusia, etc..." might not be good for me, or (good enought). That does not make my post sound bias (in my opinion)
I have tried all these titles in he past,and for some reason, GT seems to have more pros thans them so being a someone with limited revenues, I decited to envest my time and money into "one" title; The one that has more pros.

I am also aware that my post wasn't fully tought out. I appologize; limited time frame was a factor in it's summarization. But you have to admit that they over did that shaking and motion blur
the whole point of the post was to hear other point of views.. stuff that I might have missed... because I still have the demo installed, and was actually looking forward to purchasing that game.

PS: Scaff: I got the PM and replied. Hope that it will clear a everything up.

 

[Exorcet]

It was OK. Better, far better, than NFS's I remember. A few complaints though:

Controls are terrible. No X button for accel, no sqaure for break. Worse is the sesativity, but at least I can fiddle with it.

Oh, and the crappy vid I had to watch when I quit a race was annoying.

I'll have to find away around the controls before I can give a proper review or anything.

 

[Biggles]

The trouble with ALL these "fanboy" opinions is that they take it for granted that GT is THE standard, & anything departing from that standard is "wrong".

There are definitely some issues with Shift's physics, considered as a true "sim", but there are a lot of good things about the game, & speaking for myself, I think the cockpit view, motion blur (& SOUND!) are superb & more immersive than the sterile "realism" of GT. I fully understand that some may prefer GT's style of presentation, but please, PLEASE, don't just dismiss anything different from GT out of hand.

What I've noticed over & over again, is that every time you switch from one game to another, it takes a while to get used & become comfortable with the look, feel & sound of the new game. This is why playing a demo (or even the full game) for a few minutes, or even a few hours, does not always allow for a fair comparison.

Finally, pad users should understand that their experience of a racing game may differ significantly from the experience of someone playing it with a good FFB wheel...

 

[GTP_RainMan]

do not defend the overuse of "motion blur"...it was offensive

 

[Hun200kmh]

My view, short and simple:

GT5P is, physicswise, better than Shift.

Shift is, in everything else, better than GT5P (graphics and AI debatable).

So, as far as I'm concerned, GT5P wins.

Two additional notes:

1. I'm not a GT fanboy, and many people here can tell you that.
2. Nowadays I'm not playing neither GT5P nor Shift. I'm playing SCC.

 

[Biggles]

do not defend the overuse of "motion blur"...it was offensive

You're telling me what I should do or not do?

No, I don't think it's overdone & I don't think it's offensive. But you are.

 

[Scaff]

do not defend the overuse of "motion blur"...it was offensive

Please do not tell other people what they can and can't like, and what the can and can't 'defend'.

Preference can never be right or wrong (and I have quite clearly stated that already in this very thread), so do not try and make out that it can be.

Feel free to say that you find the overuse of motion blur offensive, but don't state it as if its a fact that can't be discussed.

I would strongly recomend that you take a look at the AUP before you next post, as it quite clearly covers (among other areas) both the manner in which you question people and the requirement here at GT Planet to use good grammar at all times (and by that I mean start your sentances with a capital letter).

Please do not take this as a suggestion, as I will treat any further AUP issues as infraction worthly.

Your opinion is not fact and if you can't see that and can't discuss differing opinions in a mature and constructive manner then you will not be remaining a member here for long.


Scaff

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

NFS SHIFT smokes GT5Prologue in a pipe! My opinion.

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

GT5p is defently a better sim, no doubt. But as a game I think shift do many things right, like cockpit cam is better then gt.

Shift has so many bugs that I cant understand that EA dared to release it! Cant look left or right in cockpit ??! Thats so stupid Many of my tunes works good in quick run, but useless online. Only reason I still play shift is nurburgring 👍

About motion blur I think its fine in cockpit, my only problem is blur inside cockpit, cant even see mirror. Bumper cam is way too blury though.

 

[DOAMK]

As a relatively new member (who owns both games), I believe that everyone here has made some good points... but I also believe that Shift caters to a more arcade-style player vs. Prologue's enthusiast type of player. The cars handle much differently and the game engines portray the cars and tracks differently... which includes the game's special effects for that 'wow' factor... but this makes neither one superior over the other; Biggles is dead-on... different games require different mindsets with which to play them. All games have their flaws, I've been playing video games since the Vectrex; and I still haven't found the racing game which is perfect for ME and what I love/hate... then again, I'm not a programmer so I really shouldn't complain.

Opinion never equals Fact, but that doesn't make them any less valid... for that individual. Never, ever try to sway me to your side using your opinion; I'm a rational thinking individual who will make up my own mind... The flip side of the coin is that if any game has so many features/functions that you do not like, make the mature choice to not play the game. It's not like there is some big shortage of games out there...

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

I have to agree with the over-use of motion blur it's ridiculous. My first car was the nissan 240sx (to re-enact my real life counter-part, they even had the Work XD9's in the game (although they called them XT9's )). But at 100-110 the cluster and interior gets blurry. I started laughing as i have done 130+ many times (more than i'll admit to on a regular basis) but i've NEVER lost sight of my cluster, although my speedometer isn't hooked up because the speed governor cuts the fuel at 116mph, now how fun is that?? The cars are floaty, it is in NO WAY a simulator, not even close, but it's a challenging arcade game with Simulation ideas regarding physics behind it. Even after all the modifications and tire upgrades my real life car with Megan Racing coilovers, and Falken Azenis RT-615 handles a million times better than the floaty, lag between throttle inputs in the game. The game has some great cars and awesome tracks, but they definitely fooled me with all the hype and advertisement.

 

[GTP_RainMan]

You're telling me what I should do or not do?

No, I don't think it's overdone & I don't think it's offensive. But you are.

It was a joke.
I appologize for my sense of humor (or lack thereof, how ever you put it)

 

[alfy13]

I think shift is a fun game, but not a game that I would play to hold me until GT5. My biggest gripe is, X button not being used as accelerate and square not being the brakes.

 

[GTP_RainMan]

Please do not tell other people what they can and can't like, and what the can and can't 'defend'.

Preference can never be right or wrong (and I have quite clearly stated that already in this very thread), so do not try and make out that it can be.

Feel free to say that you find the overuse of motion blur offensive, but don't state it as if its a fact that can't be discussed.

I would strongly recomend that you take a look at the AUP before you next post, as it quite clearly covers (among other areas) both the manner in which you question people and the requirement here at GT Planet to use good grammar at all times (and by that I mean start your sentances with a capital letter).

Please do not take this as a suggestion, as I will treat any further AUP issues as infraction worthly.

Your opinion is not fact and if you can't see that and can't discuss differing opinions in a mature and constructive manner then you will not be remaining a member here for long.


Scaff

Mr. Scaff,
I understand your role as a moderator, and I salute you for taking it seriously on this board. But I oppose the overuse of power that you have shown in my discussion topic in the last twenty four hours. I have read the rules that bind my registration to this board and I understand the Queen’s English very well. I find it rather offensive that you’d question my proper use of grammar when the post with which you addressed me was littered with grammatical errors.
May I also remind you that this is a community, not a Nazi concentration camp; how in god’s name could I force my opinion on to someone??? My last comment was merely an attempt at “humor” that either the person whom it was direct to or I lack in some way or another. Your philosophical and ethical reminders are of no interest to me because aside from my account issue, (a line that I over looked due to circumstances explained to you in my PM), I have said and done nothing wrong.
To sum it all up, I get your point. Now it’s time for you to get mine: I’m not going to write a five page review of what went wrong with that game because frankly, it’s not even worth it. There are plenty of people out there that are paid to do that. And I’m also pretty sure that members of THIS community can make up their mind as to what they liked and disliked in the game. My initial post was nearly a starting point because nobody addressed it.

Thank you very much for the attention and babysitting, but it will not be necessary. At my age, I can moderate myself to some degree.

RainMan

 

[Scaff]

Mr. Scaff,
I understand your role as a moderator, and I salute you for taking it seriously on this board. But I oppose the overuse of power that you have shown in my discussion topic in the last twenty four hours. I have read the rules that bind my registration to this board and I understand the Queen’s English very well.

Given the nature of your posts across two accounts (of which the staff are able to fully review) I would beg to differ.

I find it rather offensive that you’d question my proper use of grammar when the post with which you addressed me was littered with grammatical errors.
May I also remind you that this is a community, not a Nazi concentration camp; how in god’s name could I force my opinion on to someone??? My last comment was merely an attempt at “humor” that either the person whom it was direct to or I lack in some way or another. Your philosophical and ethical reminders are of no interest to me because aside from my account issue, (a line that I over looked due to circumstances explained to you in my PM), I have said and done nothing wrong.

You can find it offensive that I point out the AUP and how it states good grammar is required all you like, that will not change the fact that the owner of this site has asked that the AUP is enforced, and if quite firm in his desire to see a high standard of spelling and grammer used.

The warning I gave you is no different to those that are sent to members (either publically or privately) on a daily basis, and given that you have no idea at all how it may have been address with others who have posted in this thread or any other thread.

If you believe that the AUP in this area is a problem then I would suggest that this may not be the site for you, please be aware that what I have asked of you is exactly what we ask of every member here at GT Planet.

I also take issue with your Nazi concentration camp quip, its neither acurate, nor needed, posting opinion as fact is a regular problem on forums and one that causes a large number of pointless arguments. As such the staff do all we can to point this out to people and ask that they post in a manner that is conductive to mature discussion, rather than flame-bait that only results in argument.

To sum it all up, I get your point. Now it’s time for you to get mine: I’m not going to write a five page review of what went wrong with that game because frankly, it’s not even worth it. There are plenty of people out there that are paid to do that. And I’m also pretty sure that members of THIS community can make up their mind as to what they liked and disliked in the game. My initial post was nearly a starting point because nobody addressed it.

Actually if you spend some time on the NFS Shift threads you will see that a lot of people have addressed the subject in depth.

I have not asked (nor has anyone else for that matter) that you write a five page review of what went on, all I have asked you to do is not post opinion as if it was fact and advise you that posts that contain a balanced analysis of a subject will get you a much greater level of feedback and comment than a one-sided rant will.

Thank you very much for the attention and babysitting, but it will not be necessary. At my age, I can moderate myself to some degree.

RainMan

The staff here will make the final choice on exactly how much moderation is needed in the case of any member and the AUP (as set out by the sites owner) will determin the boundaries of that moderation and what is acceptable.


Scaff

 

[Evo_1ution]

Its somewhat interesting to hear people claim that one game is a better simulator over the other when they do not say alot about what "real cars on real tracks" experience they have had.

Im a big GT fan, had them all and am eagerly awaiting the release of GT5. Ive gotten somewhat bored of GT5P and frustrated on the wait for GT5 that I bought NFS Shift.

From a pure simulation and physics perspective i would say that Shift is closer to the real thing then GT5P - based on approx 7 years of experience of tracking real cars on real tracks.

Its arguable from a gaming perspective which provides the better pleasure (I think GT5P does) but to prep ahead of a real trackday I personally would use Shift over GT5.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

I'm surprised this thread stayed open 24 hours, seriously some of the statements are just pants. Scaff, once again your clearly right.

Need for speed shift is a good game. Its not GT, its not trying to be GT.

I personally think motion blur is used just about right for this type or arcade style sim, the cockpit experience integrates blur quite well.

I'm a little lost with the style of '(sarcasm)' mentioned in the title.

Scaff, shouldn't somebody have to disclose who they previously were if they're going to be allowed to have multiple accounts?
Seems like a bit of a loophole to bend the rules.

 

[geo1098]

I was really hoping Shift would have been a valid alternative to GT5P because I'm tired of wating for GT5. Unfortunately I found the Shift demo unplayable. At high speed I had a lot of float and what felt like random motion coming from the car. (Almost like the back wheels were on rotating casters.) Having a number of track days under my belt I can tell you there is no such float from any decent sportscar. In fact just the opposite. The straights (even the slightly bumpy ones) are an opportunity to relax, catch your breath, and check your gauges. There is no battle to keep the car in line, if there is, there is something wrong with the car and it shouldn't be on a track or even the street for that matter. I find the behavior in GT5P much more like the true experience.

Other issues like tail wagging under heavy braking is overdone. The blur effect is, in my opinion, an unwanted distraction and completely arcade. The over exaggerated motion of being pushed back into the seat and pushed forward on braking lead me to believe my in-game drivers seat must have been broken and free to move back and forth on the seat rails. The motion of the cars on the replays also looked like a brick sliding on ice. This probably would have been a lot more fun in a city setting with police cars in chase.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff, shouldn't somebody have to disclose who they previously were if they're going to be allowed to have multiple accounts?
Seems like a bit of a loophole to bend the rules.

In all fairness to the OP that issue has been dealt with and was a situation they were unaware of.

For the record multiple accounts are not permited at all, and in this situation the reason for the new account was quite valid (and the old one is now gone).

Regards

Scaff

 

[Exorcet]

I tweaked the controls a bit, not quite where I want to be, but I can drive. Cars feel pretty good, but I always find myself veering out of control at high speed because I push to stick too much.

Cockpit is better in Shift IMO, but the blur at high speed ins't that great. I can't read my dials. I'm sure a driver going fast might be very focused on the road, but there's nothing stopping him from checking the revs or the speedo. The only way I'd like Shift's high speed blur was if it worked with head tracking, so you could look around a bit.

 

[Scaff]

I was really hoping Shift would have been a valid alternative to GT5P because I'm tired of wating for GT5. Unfortunately I found the Shift demo unplayable. At high speed I had a lot of float and what felt like random motion coming from the car. (Almost like the back wheels were on rotating casters.) Having a number of track days under my belt I can tell you there is no such float from any decent sportscar. In fact just the opposite. The straights (even the slightly bumpy ones) are an opportunity to relax, catch your breath, and check your gauges. There is no battle to keep the car in line, if there is, there is something wrong with the car and it shouldn't be on a track or even the street for that matter. I find the behavior in GT5P much more like the true experience.

To be honest that would depend on the car and the speed involved.

Look at this from a real world point of view, most road-cars (save for high-end exotics) do exhibit lift above a certain speed and this could be described as a floating feeling.

For example a 2001 RX-7 (which weighs 2796lbs) experiences 266lbs of lift at 150mph, which equates to 10% of to total mass, of that 177lbs is from the front of the car. The end result would be a very floaty feel to the steering.

Now the RX-7 is actually not bad in terms of highspeed lift, as an extreme example a 2000 VW Beetle suffers from 742lbs of lift at 124mph, given that the car weighs in at 2,700lbs, that amounts to a quarter of its weight in lift!!!

The issue with shift however is that cars still suffer from this feeling even when featuring full aero packages, and at high speed should be stuck to the track not floating on it.


On a related note, one for the history books. The 1967 Ford GT-40 MkIV suffered from 318lbs of lift at 220mph, the drivers of the car often stated that at 200mph+ on the Hunaudieres/Mulsanne straight they could apply a half turn of lock in either direction and the car would remain straight.

When Ford wind tunnel tested the '67 GT-40 they found that had the car been able to hit 230mph it would have suffer so much front end lift that it would have taken off.


Regards

Scaff

 

[ANFD]

Please do not tell other people what they can and can't like, and what the can and can't 'defend'.

Preference can never be right or wrong (and I have quite clearly stated that already in this very thread), so do not try and make out that it can be.Scaff

Definition of hypocracy .....

Funny that a moderator should say that when in fact another said just the opposite ....


I had posed a rational and logical perspective on how there are pros and cons to selecting a specific performance points level in Prologue and was labelled a cheater and a "tosser" should I vary from the dogmatic view held to be that of the GTP community. I am uncomfortable being a member of any community that dictates how I must play a particular game.

I had responded to the members who referred to me as a cheater and a tosser by saying that there was no reason to call anyone names. The straw that broke the camels back, so to speak was the response from a MODERATOR claiming that they didn't call anyone a name and that the simple fact was that if you change the performance points to anything from maximum, you simply are a cheater and a tosser, plain and simple. Since this came from a moderator, I have to assume that it is the shared view of the GTP community.