Nikon: D600 vs D7100

[Pako]

Torn at the moment between the to. Our little D40x has taken over 50K images and > than 220gb of compressed imagery. We have used the snot out of it, but it's time to upgrade.

Other than our standard DX 24-55mm and 50-200mm lenses, we also have a Sigma 10-24mm wide angle. From what I understand, these lenses will still work with either camera but may experience performance deficiencies.

We take a lot of pictures of the kids (of course) and a pile of landscape/outdoor shots.

Other than that, the main differences I see between the D600 and the D7100 are just a few things.

D600:
Comes with a 28-80mm FX lense.
Full Frame
1080p, 30FPS Max
~39 Focal Points
Better low light performance.

D7100:
Comes with a 24-300mm DX lense.
Not Full Frame
1080p, but at 60FPS
~51 Focal Points
and can get into a kit roughly $450 cheaper.

There are a lot of other differences, but am really concerned with the low light performance. I have taken many extreme iso shots full of grain with my D40X and would love to get some better low light photos with less noise. I also don't want to keep second guessing if whether or not I should have got a Full Framer camera or not.

The other side of that conversation is that I really don't want to throw money where I don't need to.

Anyone with experience with these two cameras would be greatly appreciated. Looking to do something shortly.

Thanks gents!

 

[wfooshee]

I'm biased because I shoot a lot of wildlife and air shows, so reach is more important, putting me preferring a crop camera. The 7100 is a very desirable update to my D7000, with higher resolution and better AF. Its "crop" mode goes down from a 1.5x to a 2x crop by using the center of the sensor, and still has nearly 16MP, so I'd have the same resolution I have with even better reach!

The D600's AF is the same as my D7000, and it works. Period. 2 months after buying the camera I used it at a Blue Angels air show, shot over a thousand frames using focus tracking (whatever is in the sensor when you half-press the shutter button is followed and stays in focus - you can see the sensor selection move around the viewfinder) and had ZERO frames miss focus.

Either camera will blow away the D40 for low light.

As for DX glass on full-frame, I've used my 18-55 on my F4 film camera. It vignettes below about 30mm, but that's fairly wide on the full frame. At 18 it has black corners. My only other daily-use lens is the 70-300 ED VR, which is FX-capable. My 30mm Sigma is no good on the F4, nor is my Rokinon 8mm fish-eye. So glass would be an issue going to FX.

Consider the newly announced D610, as well. New shutter design which they say boosts burst speed, but I think it's really a new design because the D600 had a rep for splattering oil and dust on the sensor.

As for burst, I get 8 or 9 frames at 6fps on the D7000 shooting RAW. I've seen reports that the 7100 actually buffers less but I certainly couldn't say why....

For myself, since I value reach over other features, the D7100 would be the hands-down choice.

 

[TB]

As a Canon shooter (I even had to look up the difference between DX and FX ), based solely on this article I'd have to opt for the D7100.

It lets you keep the lenses you already have, which would be unusable with the full frame, slightly faster FPS (but sadly not 144 ), a better auto focus system and cheaper makes it a no-brainer for me.

 

[Pako]

Thank you, both of you. Great article find TB. I looked at a lot of comparison articles and videos, but this was the best by far, but your right, neither camera will hit 144fps.

Kind of answering it myself, but here's a great comparison of high iso, night examples between the two.
http://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/2013/05/nikon-d7100-cropped-sensor-for-night-photography/

In looking at these, the 7100 is miles ahead of my D40x, but still....looking at the D600's night shots, and wow, huge difference. I call it huge anyways. My wife would probably not see the difference.

 

[TB]

^ Looking through that link, it comes across to me that even if the D7100 was better at any of the shots (which he even admits aren't perfectly comparable as he used different lenses (they are even different brands!)), he still wouldn't have chosen it over the D600 purely because it's not full frame. Honestly, I like the color (except for he purple shack) the D7100 produces better.

 

[phillgt2002]

I've used a D7100 and it's a fantastic camera. Anything other than this D40 of mine is better though.

 

[Pako]

^Yes, I like the color to. I dislike the grain (noise), however. I think it would be acceptable either way though.

 

[35mm]

Honestly, if you have to ask others, simply go with the D7100. You even have all the DX lens to go with it. And buy the body only, don't waste money on another kit lens.

Having said that, the D600's low light performance will always be at least one stop better than the D7100's.


EDIT: Also get a 35mm f/1.8 DX lens. It will help you in low light situations and it's nice and cheap.

 

[Pako]

Honestly, if you have to ask others, simply go with the D7100. You even have all the DX lens to go with it. And buy the body only, don't waste money on another kit lens.

Having said that, the D600's low light performance will always be at least one stop better than the D7100's.


EDIT: Also get a 35mm f/1.8 DX lens. It will help you in low light situations and it's nice and cheap.

Thanks for the advise, though I don't understand this statement:

Honestly, if you have to ask others, simply go with the D7100.

Unless I have some grand revelation, we have basically decided on the D7100. I do greatly appreciate everyone's input as it has made the decision clearer. 👍

 

[35mm]

...though I don't understand this statement:

No, no, no, no! I didn't mean that in an arrogant way. Sorry if it sounded like that.

What I meant was that full-frame comes as a natural wish for photographers. More than just wanting better ISO performance, people after full frame crave for 35mm equivalent focal distances, more "natural" depth of field (and better control of it), bigger and brighter viewfinders (great for using older, manual focus lenses), wider angles, better dynamic range, less colour noise and more "film-like" grain, etc., etc...

You just know you have to have it, that's all.

 

[Pako]

No, no, no, no! I didn't mean that in an arrogant way. Sorry if it sounded like that.

What I meant was that full-frame comes as a natural wish for photographers. More than just wanting better ISO performance, people after full frame crave for 35mm equivalent focal distances, more "natural" depth of field (and better control of it), bigger and brighter viewfinders (great for using older, manual focus lenses), wider angles, better dynamic range, less colour noise and more "film-like" grain, etc., etc...

You just know you have to have it, that's all.

👍 Thanks for the clarification, I understand what you are saying.

Other than the image quality at extreme ISO's, both camera's are miles ahead of my D40x in terms of all the things you have just mentioned. If cost wasn't a factor, the D600 would be the choice just for the fact that it will produce better low light results. Things being what they are, we can't have everything so the next best thing would be the D7100. I will, no doubt, keep a full frame in the back of mind as the "next" step in our upgrade path.

 

[TB]

I will, no doubt, keep a full frame in the back of mind as the "next" step in our upgrade path.

And for that reason I'd suggest that any new lenses you buy be FXs* so if/when you go to full frame you can still use them. 👍

*See, I did learn something!

 

[Pako]

I do appreciate the advise guys. I was tired enough last night to make a half delirious internet purchase at 2 in the morning. It's the kind of feeling when you wake up next to someone that you don't know and wonder what happened the night before.

Anyways, I found an email as proof that I did in fact order a D7100 with a couple DX lenses to boot, a 18-140mm and 55-300mm VR NIKKOR Zoom Lens. I should have just got the body, but my current lenses kinda of suck to be honest. With exception to my wide angle, they are the ones that came with my D40x.

Anyways, there we are. I'm sure I will drop some photos in here later.

 

[TB]

'Grats on the purchase!

Out of curiosity, why DX lenses instead of FX?

 

[Pako]

Well like I said I was delirious, I already have buyers remorse, but also saved about $600 because it was bundled with the camera. I was also afraid of ruining nice FX lenses before I had a chance to use them on a full frame camera. I expect it'll be three years probably before I'm ready to spend that kind of money that I would need to on a full frame.

 

[TB]

it was bundled with the camera.

'Nuff said. 👍

Next suggestion - don't read any camera reviews or look at any prices for at least 6 months. You'll drive yourself nuts.

 

[Azuremen]

Congrats on the purchase, Pako. I'd recommend picking up a 30 to 50mm range prime lens for indoor candid shots and the occasional bokeh abuse.

Also, on the topic of lenses, when you upgrade you can likely make most of the cost on the DX lenses back. Most lenses hold their value fairly well, so they aren't quite the loss in the long run as the body

I'm biased because I shoot a lot of wildlife and air shows, so reach is more important, putting me preferring a crop camera. The 7100 is a very desirable update to my D7000, with higher resolution and better AF. Its "crop" mode goes down from a 1.5x to a 2x crop by using the center of the sensor, and still has nearly 16MP, so I'd have the same resolution I have with even better reach!

I still see no reason why this is a feature, as it is nothing more than cropping down the original image. You are not collecting any more data (in fact, less) and the image compression doesn't change as you are not using a longer focal length. Bokeh doesn't change, nor does lens distortion, and I suspect what you're going to see in the optical viewfinder doesn't change either. I'm fairly certain we've discussed this a little before, but I can still only think of the benefit of this is smaller file sizes, but SD cards are cheap and hard drive space isn't much of an issue these days.

So, make me believe this feature isn't a gimmick, please.

 

[Pako]

Congrats on the purchase, Pako. I'd recommend picking up a 30 to 50mm range prime lens for indoor candid shots and the occasional bokeh abuse.

Also, on the topic of lenses, when you upgrade you can likely make most of the cost on the DX lenses back. Most lenses hold their value fairly well, so they aren't quite the loss in the long run as the body



I still see no reason why this is a feature, as it is nothing more than cropping down the original image. You are not collecting any more data (in fact, less) and the image compression doesn't change as you are not using a longer focal length. Bokeh doesn't change, nor does lens distortion, and I suspect what you're going to see in the optical viewfinder doesn't change either. I'm fairly certain we've discussed this a little before, but I can still only think of the benefit of this is smaller file sizes, but SD cards are cheap and hard drive space isn't much of an issue these days.

So, make me believe this feature isn't a gimmick, please.

Thanks man, my wife doesn't know I got it. I know we will both get a lot of use out of it. She is a point and shoot and like to get crazy, having fun with the technology while letting my creative parts cut loose. Honestly, your photos specifically as well as many other members here are some of the reasons for the upgrade. The photo's produced from the D40x, where just stale to me. Occasionally we get lucky and get a good shot where everything is just perfect, but I am hoping to close the gap and be able to get better shots more often.

Thanks for the lens tip. I have a 18-55, a 55-200, and a 10-18 in the DX format and am really interested in what lens will really help in low light shooting. I realize that not being a full frame camera, more noise at higher iso's are to be expected. As more than one review stated, "anything over 3200 iso is just unusable".

I am really excited and just in time for the fall colors. I have a really good feeling what we will be doing this weekend!

As far as the x1.3 crop, I don't understand it either. They are saying that with a 200mm lens at a x1.3 crop, you are getting an effective 320mm?

I mean, can't I just take the picture, zoom in and crop it on the desktop for the same result? I guess it depends if the crop is pre or post processing right?

I would have researched it more if I thought it was a major selling point.

 

[Pako]

WOW! Camera came today. It will take a while to get through all this, but right out of the game, point and shoot works great. I really had hoped that Nikon has updated their firmware to explain why certain settings aren't available instead of just making them grayed out.

Movie quality is good, but finding the right setting is difficult because you can preview what it will look like until you actually starting shooting. Kinda odd...

Anyways, not really "review", but man...there is a ton of stuff to this thing...

 

[phillgt2002]

I'm sure you will get your moneys worth down the road. I'm thinking about dropping some money on a new camera too.

 

[Pako]

It is miles ahead of the D40x. 👍 Right away you will notice better color, better lighting control, and the flash actually works pretty good giving flashed pictures a more natural look. The video's pretty good to. I think I will mainly shoot video in 720p at 60fps instead of the 1080i at 30fps. The built in mic will do in a pinch, but if you have any serious dialog or want better than tolerable audio, an external mic will be required.

After messing with this one all day, I picked up the D40x and it just felt like a little toy. I'll still hold onto it as it will be my "doesn't matter if it falls off a cliff" camera, etc.

 

[Azuremen]

What mode are you generally shooting, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Pako]

What mode are you generally shooting, if you don't mind me asking?

I have been trying a lot of different modes. Generally speaking, when auto doesn't give me what I want, I will go to manual mode and adjust things until I find the result I'm looking for. Some modes, like the built in HDR, is only available in M, A, S, and P modes and within those modes there are different burst intervals available. It's usually by trial and error most of the time as far as what mode I am shooting in.

 

[Pako]

Here are some test images from yesterday, all images were shot as jpegs with no color correction or editing other than the crop and resizing:

Built in "Miniature Effect"

File Info 1
File: 1-_DSC0049.JPG
Date Created: 10/18/2013 9:52:02 AM
Date Modified: 10/17/2013 3:39:34 PM
File Size: 503 KB
Image Size: 683 x 1024
File Info 2
Date Shot: 10/17/2013 15:39:31.90
Time Zone and Date: UTC-7, DSTN
Image Quality: Jpeg Fine (8-bit)
Artist: Picasa
Camera Info
Device: Nikon D7100
Lens: VR 18-140mm f/3.5-5.6G
Focal Length: 18mm
Focus Mode: AF-S
AF-Area Mode: Wide Area
VR: OFF
AF Fine Tune: OFF
Exposure
Aperture: f/10
Shutter Speed: 1/320s
Scene Mode: Miniature Effect
Exposure Comp.: 0EV
Exposure Tuning:
Metering: Matrix
ISO Sensitivity: Auto (ISO 200)
Flash
Device:
Image Settings
White Balance: Auto1, 0, 0
Color Space: Adobe RGB
High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
Long Exposure NR: OFF
Active D-Lighting: OFF
Image Authentication:
Vignette Control:
Auto Distortion Control: OFF
Picture Control
Picture Control: [VI] VIVID
Base: [VI] VIVID
Quick Adjust: -
Sharpening: Auto
Contrast: 0
Brightness: 0
Saturation: 0
Hue: 0

File Info 1
File: 1-_DSC0126.JPG
Date Created: 10/18/2013 9:47:14 AM
Date Modified: 10/17/2013 6:03:20 PM
File Size: 263 KB
Image Size: 1024 x 683
File Info 2
Date Shot: 10/17/2013 18:03:19.40
Time Zone and Date: UTC-7, DSTN
Image Quality: Jpeg Fine (8-bit)
Artist: Picasa
Camera Info
Device: Nikon D7100
Lens: VR 18-140mm f/3.5-5.6G
Focal Length: 140mm
Focus Mode: AF-A
AF-Area Mode: Auto
VR: OFF
AF Fine Tune: OFF
Exposure
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/1600s
Scene Mode: Auto
Exposure Comp.: 0EV
Exposure Tuning:
Metering: Matrix
ISO Sensitivity: Auto (ISO 400)
Flash
Device:
Flash Sync Mode: OFF
Image Settings
White Balance: Auto1, 0, 0
Color Space: Adobe RGB
High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
Long Exposure NR: OFF
Active D-Lighting: Auto
Image Authentication:
Vignette Control:
Auto Distortion Control: OFF
Picture Control
Picture Control: [SD] STANDARD
Base: [SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust: -
Sharpening: Auto
Contrast: Auto
Brightness: 0
Saturation: Auto
Hue: 0

File Info 1
File: 1-_DSC0331.JPG
Date Created: 10/18/2013 9:35:10 AM
Date Modified: 10/18/2013 12:43:28 AM
File Size: 237 KB
Image Size: 1024 x 733
File Info 2
Date Shot: 10/18/2013 00:43:29.30
Time Zone and Date: UTC-7, DSTN
Image Quality: Jpeg Fine (8-bit)
Artist: Picasa
Camera Info
Device: Nikon D7100
Lens: 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G
Focal Length: 55mm
Focus Mode: AF-A
AF-Area Mode: Auto
VR:
AF Fine Tune: OFF
Exposure
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/60s
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Exposure Comp.: +2.0EV
Exposure Tuning:
Metering: Matrix
ISO Sensitivity: ISO 100
Flash
Device: Built-in Flash
Flash Sync Mode: Front Curtain
Flash Mode: i-TTL-BL, +2.0EV
Image Settings
White Balance: Auto1, 0, 0
Color Space: Adobe RGB
High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
Long Exposure NR: OFF
Active D-Lighting: OFF
Image Authentication:
Vignette Control:
Auto Distortion Control: OFF
Picture Control
Picture Control: [SD] STANDARD
Base: [SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust: 0
Sharpening: 3
Contrast: 0
Brightness: 0
Saturation: 0
Hue: 0

File Info 1
File: 1-_DSC0295.JPG
Date Created: 10/18/2013 9:31:00 AM
Date Modified: 10/17/2013 8:41:44 PM
File Size: 21.4 KB
Image Size: 1024 x 683
File Info 2
Date Shot: 10/17/2013 20:41:43.60
Time Zone and Date: UTC-7, DSTN
Image Quality: Jpeg Fine (8-bit)
Artist: Picasa
Camera Info
Device: Nikon D7100
Lens: VR 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6G
Focal Length: 300mm
Focus Mode: AF-A
AF-Area Mode: Auto
VR: OFF
AF Fine Tune: OFF
Exposure
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/800s
Exposure Mode: Manual
Exposure Comp.: +3.3EV
Exposure Tuning:
Metering: Matrix
ISO Sensitivity: ISO 100
Flash
Device:
Image Settings
White Balance: Auto1, 0, 0
Color Space: Adobe RGB
High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
Long Exposure NR: OFF
Active D-Lighting: OFF
Image Authentication:
Vignette Control:
Auto Distortion Control: OFF
Picture Control
Picture Control: [SD] STANDARD
Base: [SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust: 0
Sharpening: 3
Contrast: 0
Brightness: 0
Saturation: 0
Hue: 0

File Info 1
File: 1-_DSC0261.JPG
Date Created: 10/18/2013 9:42:16 AM
Date Modified: 10/17/2013 7:57:24 PM
File Size: 417 KB
Image Size: 1024 x 683
File Info 2
Date Shot: 10/17/2013 19:57:24.90
Time Zone and Date: UTC-7, DSTN
Image Quality: Jpeg Fine (8-bit)
Artist: Picasa
Camera Info
Device: Nikon D7100
Lens: 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G
Focal Length: 55mm
Focus Mode: AF-A
AF-Area Mode: Auto
VR:
AF Fine Tune: OFF
Exposure
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/60s
Scene Mode: Auto
Exposure Comp.: 0EV
Exposure Tuning:
Metering: Matrix
ISO Sensitivity: Auto (ISO 1100)
Flash
Device: Built-in Flash
Flash Sync Mode: Front Curtain
Flash Mode: i-TTL-BL, 0EV
Image Settings
White Balance: Auto1, 0, 0
Color Space: Adobe RGB
High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
Long Exposure NR: OFF
Active D-Lighting: Auto
Image Authentication:
Vignette Control:
Auto Distortion Control: OFF
Picture Control
Picture Control: [SD] STANDARD
Base: [SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust: -
Sharpening: Auto
Contrast: Auto
Brightness: 0
Saturation: Auto
Hue: 0

It was night, so this is all artificial lighting, no flash. The colors are pretty accurate. The same shot with the D40x would have been greatly exaggerated in the yellows. (excuse the mess)

File Info 1
File: 1-_DSC0206.JPG
Date Created: 10/18/2013 9:40:16 AM
Date Modified: 10/17/2013 7:39:28 PM
File Size: 397 KB
Image Size: 683 x 1024
File Info 2
Date Shot: 10/17/2013 19:39:28.50
Time Zone and Date: UTC-7, DSTN
Image Quality: Jpeg Fine (8-bit)
Artist: Picasa
Camera Info
Device: Nikon D7100
Lens: 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G
Focal Length: 18mm
Focus Mode: AF-A
AF-Area Mode: Auto
VR:
AF Fine Tune: OFF
Exposure
Aperture: f/3.5
Shutter Speed: 1/30s
Scene Mode: Auto (Flash Off)
Exposure Comp.: 0EV
Exposure Tuning:
Metering: Matrix
ISO Sensitivity: Auto (ISO 1000)
Flash
Device:
Flash Sync Mode: OFF
Image Settings
White Balance: Auto1, 0, 0
Color Space: Adobe RGB
High ISO NR: ON (Normal)
Long Exposure NR: OFF
Active D-Lighting: Auto
Image Authentication:
Vignette Control:
Auto Distortion Control: OFF
Picture Control
Picture Control: [SD] STANDARD
Base: [SD] STANDARD
Quick Adjust: -
Sharpening: Auto
Contrast: Auto
Brightness: 0
Saturation: Auto
Hue: 0

 

[wfooshee]

So, make me believe this feature isn't a gimmick, please.

It increases the fps (marginally) in continuous shooting, and the frame rate in video. Otherwise, you are absolutely correct, it's no different than cropping a full-size original.

 

[Azuremen]

I have been trying a lot of different modes. Generally speaking, when auto doesn't give me what I want, I will go to manual mode and adjust things until I find the result I'm looking for. Some modes, like the built in HDR, is only available in M, A, S, and P modes and within those modes there are different burst intervals available. It's usually by trial and error most of the time as far as what mode I am shooting in.

Gotcha. I always recommend shooting in aperture priority mode most of the time, paired with reading a bit on exposure control. Forces one to get use to how things control exposure and such.

It increases the fps (marginally) in continuous shooting, and the frame rate in video. Otherwise, you are absolutely correct, it's no different than cropping a full-size original.

I hadn't thought about the reduced over head to the CPU during shooting, so thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Pako]

Thanks for the advise. It is a bit of a balancing act between aperture, shutter speed, and ISO to get things looking right so anything that helps to take the guess work out is very helpful! Having a blast with the camera though. It really is easier to get good shots with this one over the D40x I had previously.

I spent a good hour or so on the roof last night just for fun. Good times!

 

[Mr. S]

Grats on your purchase. Side-note: you can apply the miniature effect after shooting, in-camera. Altough preferrably you should to that in postprocessing (tiltshift filter). You'll deffo have fun with the D7100 either way, enjoy.

 

[wfooshee]

I generally shoot shutter-priority, because I want to make sure with long lenses that I'm not shooting at 1/60th or something slow like that. The camera also has an auto-ISO mode where it will raise the ISO if needed, and you can specify a maximum ISO.

I don't use that much, because I prefer knowing when it happens as opposed to finding out when I get on the PC after.

Also, if you shoot RAW, the Nikon ViewNX software is the only stuff that reads the Scene modes. The Scene modes will change how the camera operates (focus modes, metering modes, etc.) but the RAW image will be unchanged in other software like Photoshop or Lightroom. JPGs will have the Scene mode adjustments. The manual doesn't document very well what the Scene modes do, it justs suggests situations in which to use them, but some modes change what gets focused on (like always focus on closest subject,) how the flash gets used, and color rendering adjustments.

 

[Pako]

Grats on your purchase. Side-note: you can apply the miniature effect after shooting, in-camera. Altough preferrably you should to that in postprocessing (tiltshift filter). You'll deffo have fun with the D7100 either way, enjoy.

Thanks! I actually just found that out. There is so much to this thing it's almost overwhelming, but I'm slowing getting a grasp on it.

I generally shoot shutter-priority, because I want to make sure with long lenses that I'm not shooting at 1/60th or something slow like that. The camera also has an auto-ISO mode where it will raise the ISO if needed, and you can specify a maximum ISO.

I don't use that much, because I prefer knowing when it happens as opposed to finding out when I get on the PC after.

Also, if you shoot RAW, the Nikon ViewNX software is the only stuff that reads the Scene modes. The Scene modes will change how the camera operates (focus modes, metering modes, etc.) but the RAW image will be unchanged in other software like Photoshop or Lightroom. JPGs will have the Scene mode adjustments. The manual doesn't document very well what the Scene modes do, it justs suggests situations in which to use them, but some modes change what gets focused on (like always focus on closest subject,) how the flash gets used, and color rendering adjustments.

Good info! I was wondering why the raw images look so neutral compared to the jpg's in other programs. I figured it was just incompatibility with the raw image format.

Do you guys always shoot in raw or raw + jpg? Where are you when you say to yourself, "dang, I wish I would have shot that in raw....."