Nine French police injured as student protests intensify (AFP)

[Anchor Man]

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rs...s/afp/20060315/ts_afp/francepoliticsjobsyouthAFP - Nine Paris police officers were injured amid escalating student protests over proposed youth employment laws which have affected over half of France's universities and left the government struggling to avoid political damage.


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[Flerbizky]

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rs...s/afp/20060315/ts_afp/francepoliticsjobsyouthAFP - Nine Paris police officers were injured amid escalating student protests over proposed youth employment laws which have affected over half of France's universities and left the government struggling to avoid political damage.


Read full story...

No wonder they French students are pissed... For those who haven't heard what they're protesting against, the French governtment has proposed a new "Youth Emplyment" Law that'll make it legal to fire anyone, below 26, with no further explanation needed...

I'd say that's very re-assuring when you're young, wants to buy a house and start a family...

 

[Famine]

Just to point out that a car bomb also exploded in Paris, killing one person (known so far), 3 minutes before this story was posted.

 

[Dave A]

Yep
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4809340.stm

http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/read_article.php?id=263438

 

[Ev0]

That law sounds like total bs. Can't blame the students for being pissed about something like this.

 

[Flerbizky]

That law sounds like total bs. Can't blame the students for being pissed about something like this.

Nope..

According to DR.dk, the car explosion was related to criminals and not to the riots..

 

[Ev0]

I wasn't talking about the car bomb. I guess I should have clarified that in my previous post.

 

[Flerbizky]

I wasn't talking about the car bomb. I guess I should have clarified that in my previous post.

I know I know - And I alse agreed that the law is total BS.. I just added the info on the car bombing....

 

[Duke]

OUt of curiousity - why should it be illegal to fire anyone, of any age, for any reason?

 

[Ev0]

OUt of curiousity - why should it be illegal to fire anyone, of any age, for any reason?

It shouldn't. Managers should be able to fire anyone if they are not doing what their job requires, or for any other valid reason, as long as there is adequate proof to support the decision.

 

[Flerbizky]

OUt of curiousity - why should it be illegal to fire anyone, of any age, for any reason?

Any reason is a "good" reason. What the french are suggesting is No reason.. If I get fired I should as hell would love to know why...

 

[Flerbizky]

It shouldn't. Managers should be able to fire anyone if they are not doing what their job requires, or for any other valid reason, as long as there is adequate proof to support the decision.

That's the whole point.. With the new law, you don't need a reason.. Not even an excuse...

 

[DQuaN]

When you start work, you normally sign a contract. It helps both parties. Usually you need 2-4 weeks notice if you are being fired, unless it is for gross misconduct.

Not many people would work for a company that could just fire someone whenever they feel like it.

 

[Duke]

It's called "employment at will".

I don't need any reason to quit my job - I can just quit! Why shouldn't my employer be allowed to stop employing me, just because they don't want to any more?

 

[Flerbizky]

It's called "employment at will".

I don't need any reason to quit my job - I can just quit! Why shouldn't my employer be allowed to stop employing me, just because they don't want to any more?

Yes, but that's because you're a Bot, there's nobody who's depending on the money you bring home to feed them and patch the holes in the roof. What if somebody _was_ depending on you. Wouldn't you like just the slightest bit of security in your employment ?.. I sure as hell would...

 

[Pupik]

We have a similar law in Florida; technically, you can be fired with no reason whatsoever, within the first 90 days of employment. But there's no age limit. I haven't met anyone who's actually been fired by this "trap door" process; you're always given a reason for your termination out of sheer courtesy.

Of course, with part-time employment, there's always the trick of scheduling a certain employee fewer work hours than before, bascially enticing the employee to quit, and therefore, that employee is unable to get state unemployment benefits.

Recently, automobiles parking in France seem to to be victims of terrorism. Even if you're not crazy about the French, please...think of the automobiles!

 

[Duke]

Yes, but that's because you're a Bot, there's nobody who's depending on the money you bring home to feed them and patch the holes in the roof. What if somebody _was_ depending on you. Wouldn't you like just the slightest bit of security in your employment ?.. I sure as hell would...

I have 2 kids and a wife. I make more than half the money that comes into our household. People are depending on me, including myself.

I repeat: If I'm allowed to quit my job just because I feel like it, why shouldn't my employer be allowed to fire me just because they feel like it?

 

[Pupik]

I have 2 kids and a wife. I make more than half the money that comes into our household. People are depending on me, including myself.

I repeat: If I'm allowed to quit my job just because I feel like it, why shouldn't my employer be allowed to fire me just because they feel like it?

Courtesy and it's also crappy business-sence to fire a long-time employee for no reason.

Either that, or reverse your two paragraphs. Maybe then, it will make sence.

 

[Duke]

So my employer is beholden by courtesy not to fire me without some indefinable "good reason", but I'm allowed to just quit because the urge strikes me?

 

[Carl.]

Here, unless you sign a contract, the equivalent of an employment at will last for 3 months. After that period, there's a mandatory 1 week notice for either firing an employee or leaving a job, and both climb to a 2 weeks notice after 2 years. Then only the required notice for firing employees keep growing up to 8 weeks after 10 years.

I think that's not a bad compromise to avoid abusive behavior from both side, it's not that harsh. One thing that would piss me off if I was living in France is that the new laws are only for people under 26 years old, while everyone else keep their security.

 

[FoolKiller]

Courtesy and it's also crappy business-sence to fire a long-time employee for no reason.

So it is rude and bad business. Since when did this mean things should be illegal?

 

[Carl.]

So my employer is beholden by courtesy not to fire me without some indefinable "good reason", but I'm allowed to just quit because the urge strikes me?

If it's the case, it's quite stupid. It should be both ways or not at all.

 

[Pupik]

So it is rude and bad business. Since when did this mean things should be illegal?

So my employer is beholden by courtesy not to fire me without some indefinable "good reason", but I'm allowed to just quit because the urge strikes me?

Likewise, it's not a good idea to just up and quit; "two weeks notice" is also a form of courtesy. Who the heck wants to hire someone who's always just left when the winds blew in another direction?

Sure, you can quit at any time; sure the employer can find a reason to fire you. But why should you be fired for no reason, especially in the the situation of tenure? Because it's discriminatory, it brings up alegations of personal preferences. You could be fired because the boss doesn't like your religion (or lack thereof), your alma mater, or car, or that mole on the side of your face that's driving the lady in HR nuts. It allows a company to fire you, the 20-year-steady employee, who's likely making more money than the college grad or apprentice that's waiting to work for you.

It allows the employer to fire you in a rather cowardly fashion, just as it's cowardly to fire a gun off into the air for sheer pleasure. Granted, companies should be able to make money how they wish, as long as it doesn't intrude on the personal rights of others. If an company is merely made of people, why shouldn't people tell you that you're fired?

 

[Pupik]

[oops, double post.]

Crap, now they can fire me.

 

[Duke]

That I agree with, and that's what prompted my original question - the arbitrariness of the age thing.

 

[ExigeEvan]

repeat: If I'm allowed to quit my job just because I feel like it, why shouldn't my employer be allowed to fire me just because they feel like it?

Because this law could be used to hide racist and sexist reasons for firing someone.

Hence why you can have employment tribunials where people sue their old employers becasue they think they were dismissed unfairly.

 

[Duke]

Because this law could be used to hide racist and sexist reasons for firing someone.

So, it's OK for me to quit my job because I can't stand working for a black person or a woman, but it's not OK for them to fire me because they don't like white guys?

 

[Dave A]

IMHO both the employer and the employee have rights, the Employee has the right to quit the job for whatever reason, the Employer should have the right to terminate the employee's employment in much the same way. With either case though, notice should be given. I know people that work where I do start with 2 weeks and the longer they are there the longer they get, termination of emploment should not be on the day and goodbye. However, I don't think the employer should have to provide any reason other than he want's to.

 

[FoolKiller]

In all reality an employer can claim a million reasons to hide his true feelings. If he is willing to fire someone for racial reasons or whatever then he probably won't mind lying about it too.

Some of you all are acting like putting a law in place will be the end all be all solution. All that does is stop the guilt complex kinds of people from this and allow fired employees to sue for discrimination whether it was there or not.

 

[livemusic]

So, it's OK for me to quit my job because I can't stand working for a black person or a woman, but it's not OK for them to fire me because they don't like white guys?

Yes.