No Pit Stops? No Performance Damage?

[goixoye]

Ima console video racing junkie -- I'm not any good but that's not the point. I bought this game 2 weeks ago and haven't opened it yet...I read some negative things about the game...that a patch was coming and decided I may return it...I've got 30 days from purchase.

So now I read there are no pit stops and no performance damage? No tire wear? No fuel usage? Is this true? I bought GRID found out there are no pits and the game's been in the case ever since...I should probably ebay it.

Without these features this game is just junk. I want a challenging (simulation, damage) game with a side of strategy (pits, fuel use & tire wear).

What is wrong with developers these days?

 

[Tired Tyres]

No tyre wear or pitstops, maximum race distance is 45 minutes and with all assistance turned off it's a pretty good sim. Not up to the standards of the best PC sims but still pretty good.

How can you make up your mind up about a game if you haven't played it? Only your opinion of it is any use to you. I think it's good but what I think of it doesn't mean that you will like it or dislike it.

 

[goixoye]

Without these things at best its a semi-sim. In real racing there is fuel use and tire wear. Both effect the car's performance. Reduced weight, diminished grip...that' reality (simulation).

What about damage & impact on performance?

Without these things I'll save my money and keep playing FM2.

 

[jonboy1066]

Hey Ronnie are you following me around? LOL

I do agree with your points to a certain degree mate, but as far as PS3 goes this is the only racing game that's worth getting (even with it's faults) The handling is the most Sim like I've felt on any console and the Force Feedback is far superior to Forza2's

I still prefer to play Forza but for a good FFB fix this is preety good. RACE Pro may well pry me away from it in January though FFB or not

 

[Host_Killer]

Forza 2 is junk... completely arcadie. After readying the interview with Mark Cale on Eurogamer, it doesn't appear we will get pit stops or tyre degradation - Shame.

I understand their (System3) trying to be true to the Series, but I would like to see them take this game beyond the narrow vision of just the Ferrari Challenge Series... There are over 50 Ferrari's available to us, please allow us to set up REAL RACES with tyre degradation, fuel usage, and pits stops. Keep the F430 Challenge series true if that is what you like, but there is a great opportunity here to take the game to legendary status someone at System 3 needs to realize their is a true vacuum in racing games. We (Online Racers) want a racing simulation, a complete racing simulation. Funny, they give us RAIN as a "real world" simulation, but they don't give us tyre usage and fuel consumption. I don't know about you lads, but I would rather have no rain and a more true to live simulation (ie Tyre wear, fuel consumption, REAL damage, pits, REAL setups).

Think about SYSTEM 3 - there is an opportunity sitting before you to turn this silly little game in to a cash cow for years to come. The community is starving to get behind a real simulation (Complete) and your physics are among the best I have driven in a long time. Better than Grand Turismo Prologue.

I wish Mark Cale hired an Online Racing Consultant as well as Bruno Senna. I live in Indianapolis, IN and know the Indianapolis Motorspeedway is revamping its Legends of Indy game. I contacted them and they supposedly have hire an online racing consultant to assist in development of their game. Not saying hire me, but I can tell you this game would be so much more user friendly and simulation weighted.

Cheers,
Host_Killer

 

[Sil3nc3r-]

This game got not really good reviews online and offline, so this won't be the legendary game anymore. To much lack of options missing here like standing starts, and still, who there at system 3 invented that crap time driving ?

Why can't i just drive for 3,5,10 or just 100 Laps on the challenges. This used option with 5/10/15 minutes is the most worse i can imagine ever in a racing game. Also the rain is a good looking feature, but far away from beeing realistic.

Also, why release a racing game without split times ? Thats ridicilous (well, they coming with the patch).

But to be honest, its really one of the best racing games on PS3 anyway. The physics are feeling better, the often you playing the game.

Looking forward for the patch, and off course, for more DLC.



Sil

 

[goixoye]

Hey Ronnie are you following me around? LOL

I do agree with your points to a certain degree mate, but as far as PS3 goes this is the only racing game that's worth getting (even with it's faults) The handling is the most Sim like I've felt on any console and the Force Feedback is far superior to Forza2's

I still prefer to play Forza but for a good FFB fix this is preety good. RACE Pro may well pry me away from it in January though FFB or not

Maybe we just have similar gaming tastes?

Maybe this is the best PS3 has to offer but without damge, pits, tire wear & fuel consumption it is a disappointment...and I say that without even playing the game. A weak attempt. A game I would consider a semi-sim....maybe not a sim at all?

So my own personal message to the developers....I'm not spending my money on your game. I so desperately want a racing sim game for my nearly 2 year old PS3. What is wrong with you people?

If I'd known about the no pits in GRID I would have saved my money there too. After 1.5 years there's still nothing to compete with FM2. Sadly there will apparently be no more DLC.

I like the hardware better for PS3 (specifically the wheels) but even if the FFB is better there is still more than that to a game. I wish I had my money back for all this worthless PS3 crap I've got. The best racing game available for a PS system is still TRD3. How retarded is that?

 

[klondike]

Not to start and argument, if you dont want to buy the game well that is your choice no doubt about that.

I just have to say it, if you really like sim racers Ferrari challenge is really good, and with the upcoming patch it will be even better. No it dont have pit stops and tire wear, but the core of the game ( the Driving ) Is the best so far on PS3.

Not buing it because it dosent have pit stops, well that is your loss.

 

[Biggles]

There's no question that FC isn't a "flagship" production like FM2 or GT5P. It's a small game made by a small company. There are some strange choices in FC - no standing starts, time-based races, very arcade-style graphics etc. - & there are features missing that probably just reflect a lack of time, money & resources - performance damage, pits, more cars etc. - & there are things that just don't work well - online, replays etc.

FC does have good physics & interesting FFB that makes the actual driving very enjoyable. It also has a range of tracks that GT5P doesn't offer. Until GT5 comes out, that is FC's niche: good physics, interesting FFB, & a range of tracks. If you're a true racing-sim fan, that will have to do it for the time being...

 

[Lion-Face]

^^Yeap i agree. Although it is a personal choice, i think basics right first, features later. And sure Ferrari Challenge may be 'lite' on features compared with other more full budget games, but what it does it does brilliantly, and as i said, it gets the basics right, great physics, great tracks, great cars. GT5P for the same reason why i still play that 6 months after release for a 'demo'. I would rather play a great sim racer than a racer that sacrifices sim physics qualities for game features like damage and pits.

 

[Zathra5_]

goixoye, out of curiousity would you rather have a game like GRID with pits stops but horrible driving physics or a game like GT5P or FC with good driving physics but no pit stops? As I get more into racing games the more I want a game with pit strategy but I'm not willing to sacrifice driving physics.

Doesn't the F1 game have pit stops? How is it as a racing game?

 

[Tired Tyres]

In my view pitstops ruin racing. I'd much rather race from start to finish but with tyre wear and reduced weight due to using the fuel.

 

[Biggles]

Doesn't the F1 game have pit stops? How is it as a racing game?

F1CE does have pit stops. It is a brilliant offline racing game IMO: decent graphics, good physics, excellent AI, great selection of tracks & (importantly) simple, but very effective damage. F1CE is focused on delivering a great racing experience without all the superficial flash & razzle dazzle of GRID.

 

[goixoye]

GRID is an abberation and a sad giant step backwards from the TOCA series. I'd like to have a true TRD4. Which would be TRD3 + a normal progressoin to the next generation consoles (better graphics, etc.) + maybe a livery editor (more than GRID please) + better replay abilities + photo mode.

So to answer your question I don't want GRID with pitstops and if my other choices are GT5P & FC I'd rather just save my money. If I have to sacrifice something #1 would be graphics / bling, #2 would be a livery editor. The other items are non-negotiable if your going to call a game a sim game.

I haven't bought GT5P because to me its about 25% of a game that costs 67% of the money. I'm not supporting the GT series anymore until they step up and deliver. Those guys have lost their touch / focus. When I can get it for $10 or $15 maybe I'll pick up a copy depending on how close that might be to the release of GT5.

If FC isn't a "flagship" but is a lower budget, lite on features game then why doesn't it have a lower price? Again as it's only part of a game so to me it's not worth a full $60 price tag.

If we don't demand more we'll never get more. Why is it too much to ask for 1) sim physics 2) performance damage 3) tire wear, fuel consumption + pit stops 4) livery editor. If FM2 could do that for the 360 18 mos ago why hasn't anyone been able to step up and do that for the PS3? That's what I want. I want something worthy of the PS3 hardware I have.

Looks like the next racing title will be RACE Pro for the 360. Maybe they'll challenge FM2 but sadly that's for the 360. Maybe instead of hoping that PS3 will have a good sim title maybe I should start hoping that 360 will have some good hardware?

The F1 is OK but I would prefer something that's got slower cars. It would be nice if the F1 game had 3 or 4 options for cars instead of just the 1. Kind of worked your way into the F1 cars. I suppose with the assists you can sorta do that?

 

[Biggles]

GRID is an abberation and a sad giant step backwards from the TOCA series. I'd like to have a true TRD4. Which would be TRD3 + a normal progressoin to the next generation consoles (better graphics, etc.) + maybe a livery editor (more than GRID please) + better replay abilities + photo mode.

So to answer your question I don't want GRID with pitstops and if my other choices are GT5P & FC I'd rather just save my money. If I have to sacrifice something #1 would be graphics / bling, #2 would be a livery editor. The other items are non-negotiable if your going to call a game a sim game.

I haven't bought GT5P because to me its about 25% of a game that costs 67% of the money. I'm not supporting the GT series anymore until they step up and deliver. Those guys have lost their touch / focus. When I can get it for $10 or $15 maybe I'll pick up a copy depending on how close that might be to the release of GT5.

If FC isn't a "flagship" but is a lower budget, lite on features game then why doesn't it have a lower price? Again as it's only part of a game so to me it's not worth a full $60 price tag.

If we don't demand more we'll never get more. Why is it too much to ask for 1) sim physics 2) performance damage 3) tire wear, fuel consumption + pit stops 4) livery editor. If FM2 could do that for the 360 18 mos ago why hasn't anyone been able to step up and do that for the PS3? That's what I want. I want something worthy of the PS3 hardware I have.

Looks like the next racing title will be RACE Pro for the 360. Maybe they'll challenge FM2 but sadly that's for the 360. Maybe instead of hoping that PS3 will have a good sim title maybe I should start hoping that 360 will have some good hardware?

The F1 is OK but I would prefer something that's got slower cars. It would be nice if the F1 game had 3 or 4 options for cars instead of just the 1. Kind of worked your way into the F1 cars. I suppose with the assists you can sorta do that?

Well, I pretty much agree with your point of view. Neither GT5P or FC are worth it if you are being very stingy with your purchases (GT5 when it's finished will probably be amazing) & you also have a 360. FM2 is a much better value but, as you say, it has crappy hardware.

I would recommend F1CE because it will be cheap now & offers a great, very challenging racing experience & is fairly different from the experience offered by GT or FM. I had not interest in F1 before getting the game, but I really enjoy F1CE.

FC is not cheap because it is a "full game", just not on a scale comparable to GT4 or Forza1/2. I think it is a worth while game to have while waiting for GT5, but perhaps, if I had a 360 & FM2 I wouldn't bother...

 

[goixoye]

but perhaps, if I had a 360 & FM2 I wouldn't bother...

I was a die hard PS2 guy...bought the XBOX everytime a promising new wheel came out (twice I think) only to return them. I bought a 360 when I couldn't get my hands on a PS3. The new MS wheel had just come out. It came with a updated copy of PGR3 for the wheel. At the time FM2 was promised in about two weeks and GTR (Simbin) was supposedly coming to the 360. About 6 months later FM2 finally came out. 18 mos later it's still very entertaining. Best console / game available IMO. The wheels' not Logitech but its pretty good.

Now once again RACE Pro (Simbin) is supposedly coming to the 360. Hopefully it won't disappoint.

I only play racing games (no shooters / role playing, or arcade racers) and I only have the one (FM2) for the 360. I doubt I would have bought a console for just one game...remember GTR was supposed to be coming. But so far that's been how it's worked out. But I must admit that it has been worth that extreme price of admission. I guess console / wheel / game & XBOX live & DLC has cost about $750+/-. Nothing else stacks up and without something else fully featured available I'd rather just play FM2. It's gone platinum now and you can get it plus the DLC for $20.

FM2's got plenty enough Ferraris for me. My budget's tighter now than it used to be so I have to be a little stingyer about my game purchases. I'm not buying something 1/2 baked. Right now my biggest beef with FM2 is that the pits aren't interactive....it'd be nice to have a little more control over what goes on...amount of fuel taken on, etc and maybe some input into how much fuel you start with. It would also be nice to be able to fix at least some of the aero damage too.

FM2 is head & shoulders above anything available for the PS3 right now. It's like GT4 for the 360 only with online, damage and a livery editor. It's not without it's flaws but IMO after 18 mos it's still the best there is for a console.

I'm sure GT5 will knock it's socks off (as long as it has performance damage) but I would expect FM3 to turn around and one-up GT5...just like FM2 makes GT4 pale in comparison.

 

[Biggles]

I was a die hard PS2 guy.

Well I went the opposite direction: started with an X Box & Forza, but then bought a PS2, GT4 & a G25 rather than buying a 360 (with its questionable track record), a M$ wheel & Forza 2. The PS3 is definitely a solid purchase with its Blu-ray capabilities & the G25 is a beautiful piece of hardware.

GT5P is very good (superior graphics & physics to FM2), although very limited in content. I have a feeling, when GT5 finally appears, it will be far superior to FM2 & probably superior to FM3 too.

I want a challenging (simulation, damage) game with a side of strategy (pits, fuel use & tire wear).

If you already have a PS3, I would invest in F1CE - which is exactly what you are describing above - rather than FC - just my opinion...

 

[Host_Killer]

I'm sure GT5 will knock it's socks off (as long as it has performance damage) but I would expect FM3 to turn around and one-up GT5...just like FM2 makes GT4 pale in comparison.

Sorry but your WRONG. The xbox360 has run its course. It's an outdated piece of hardware (date it was release it was outdated). You can only have 7.4gb of data on your DVD format. PS3 is just starting to come into its own and you will see a ever widening disparity between the PS3 offerings and the xbox360. This is why EA has chosen the PS3 has its official console of choice.

Cheers,
Host_Killer

PS - As for FM2 being the best - Your joking right? Physics are a joke and graphics are subpar to GT5P.

 

[Host_Killer]

I would like to see GT5P and FC start coming out with DLC (FC after patch). Goixoye could be appeased with some DLC from both game companies.

I agree the slow start with the PS3 has been disheartening, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Game designers have figured out how to work with the PS3 architecture and this next gen of games will be reflect that hard work.

I'm F1 fan at my core so I haven't played with FM2 or my xbox360 since I bought my PS3. I have a Wii also, but that is for the kids... which they don't play.

 

[goixoye]

As far as what I like in a racing game FM2 is the best. While I'll admit GT5P is graphically better but FM2 blows it away in content.

I have F1CE...don't like the uber - fast cars. I keep going back to FM2 because PS3 offerings are too weak and fail to satisfy.

Only time can prove out what happens with GT5 & FM3. I'm about totally fed up with the GT people. Their games have been visually amazing and have great physics but there's more to a great game than just that. I've grown weary of them dictatiing to us what we get in a game. People buy their stuff just because they're GT. I mean what kind of fools puts 1900 era cars in games? Who wants to drive something like that? Will GT5 have horse & buggies?

If you've read this whole thread I do have a PS3. I've been waiting 2 years for a racing game worth having on the system. Is all that's come out is that bone GT threw at us (GT5P).

 

[Host_Killer]

Not going to argue with your opinion or your feelings towards Polyphony Digital - because your right. You and I have similar desires and expectations on what we want from a racing game. I haven't been happy since Formula 1 Challenge 99-02. That was the pinnacle of racing games for me. I tried going back but the graphics are so weak, it was difficult to drive.

 

[myke6699]

The problem with Race Pro (SimBim asnwer for the 360) is the graphics. It may well be the most realistic racing/sim but if it looks like th latest screenshots here:

Some from GT5P (just as a reminder, we should know what it actually looks like)- courtesy of TVR_Fan
No matter what you think of GT5P, you cannot doubt the how much thguys at PD adores the sports of automobile racing

If you can overlook the graphics and still be immersed in the game (although MS Wireless Steering Wheel isn't going to help either) then enjoy. Personally, I need good realistic graphics, err to the side of being sterile than something with too much characters that it detracts from my perception of what is reality. I know SimBin, even with the power of PC, can never get the graphics right (although the physics is superb), is never going to be as good as Polyphony Digital (when it comes to photo-realism) But in the age when games like GT5P and to some degree, GRID (a little bit on the cartoony side but well done, none the less) or even the new MotoG P are pushing the boundry of console gfx, they (SimBin) could've at least tried.

 

[Biggles]

If you've read this whole thread I do have a PS3. I've been waiting 2 years for a racing game worth having on the system. Is all that's come out is that bone GT threw at us (GT5P).

If you have a 360 & Forza 2, a PS3 & F1CE, GRID & GT5P - I don't know what you're complaining about?! They are all good games with their own pros & cons. What you are looking for IMO is GT5: fully featured like FM2 but with great graphics & physics & huge content. For GT5 to be everything you (& everyone else) are wanting it to be, it will take time... lots of time.

In the meantime, Ferrari Challenge offers a decent, but not "flagship" game with its own collection of pros & cons (some of which will hopefully be fixed with updates)...

 

[McLaren]

The problem with Race PRO's graphics is that, for some reason, SimBin decided knock 'em down a bit compared to EVO for the PC. Both games, I believe, are nearly the same, & with X360 guys stating the X360 has the capabilities to best some of the best gaming rigs, I'm baffled then as to why Evo looks so much better.

 

[Hun200kmh]

To anyone reading this thread for the first time (like I just did), what really stands out is that no racing console game offers it all. And I just can't understand why!

Still the best physics wise, a game for the PS2 (Enthusia), with GT5P getting very close.

Still the best concerning endurance racing and strategy, a very, very old game (2000?), named "Le Mans 24 Hours" (PS2 and Dreamcast, I think)

Still the best concerning tracks list and online features ... TRD3 (multiplatform)

Why, after all these years, with a new generation of consoles, all we have (in the PS3) is:

GRID - Huge step back from the TRD series (less tracks, less cars, no pits, tyre wear, fuel usage, even more arcade physics. Bought it, shelved it, only my 11-year old kid likes to crash around in that game.

GT5P - Graphically beatiful, great physics, but a demo, with no pits/fuel/tyre wear, poor online and just a few tracks

FC - Good physics, best track selection available so far, interesting concept, decent graphics but lousy sound, troublesome online, no pits/fuel/tyre wear ...

I guess our best hopes lie with GT5 full ... let's hope it gets released until the end of 2010

 

[myke6699]

To anyone reading this thread for the first time (like I just did), what really stands out is that no racing console game offers it all. And I just can't understand why!

Still the best physics wise, a game for the PS2 (Enthusia), with GT5P getting very close.

Still the best concerning endurance racing and strategy, a very, very old game (2000?), named "Le Mans 24 Hours" (PS2 and Dreamcast, I think)

Still the best concerning tracks list and online features ... TRD3 (multiplatform)

Why, after all these years, with a new generation of consoles, all we have (in the PS3) is:

GRID - Huge step back from the TRD series (less tracks, less cars, no pits, tyre wear, fuel usage, even more arcade physics. Bought it, shelved it, only my 11-year old kid likes to crash around in that game.

GT5P - Graphically beatiful, great physics, but a demo, with no pits/fuel/tyre wear, poor online and just a few tracks

FC - Good physics, best track selection available so far, interesting concept, decent graphics but lousy sound, troublesome online, no pits/fuel/tyre wear ...

I guess our best hopes lie with GT5 full ... let's hope it gets released until the end of 2010

GT5P is going to be a work in progress. In Spec I, there were only 30+ cars compared to the 70 or so in Spec II. If things go according to plan, damage will be introduced and supposedly better online implemetation in Spec III. But don't expect it to be full feature, that's reserved for GT5.
There's also F1:CE which is quite decent although F1 racing is a little too quick for my taste (although I love GP3 + GP4).
I'm hoping that the V2 patch for FC will improve the frame-rate. Currently, I could not live with the noticeable lag and stutter.
Although at first I hated it, now I find GRID to be the most enjoyable of the bunch. I accept the fact that it's a arcade racer that I race mostly with the Dualshock 3 controller. Although the gfx isn't as stunning as GT5P, it has skidmarks, damage modelling and 3d trackside objects. In term of having interesting races and tracks, this is better than FC.
If you're running the older SKU 80gb PS3 (or the 20gb + 60gb) you can still run GT4 which runs beautifully with the G25. And the smooth framerate, tire wears, countless of interesting tracks (and rally to boot). Next to Forza 2, his is the most complete console racer. That said, the less than stellar AI and no online races, makes it a compromised product.

I agree for PS3 only gamers, GT5 is going to be it. Anything else that will come between now and the date GT5 is released, is going to be mere fillers.

 

[Host_Killer]

Lets Hope your right... I would like to see pit stops add to the GT Series... What does it say under the title - "The Real Driving Simulator". But wait... No Pitstops or damage?

Polyphony Digital - take note.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Pitstops are surely in GT5, they were already present in GT3 (very basic, no fuel just tyres, and no pitcrew) and werer much improved ion GT4 (pitcrew, fuel refill and tyre change).

Still, the best pit recreation in a console game (at least, that I know of), dates back to 2000 and the LE Mans game. In that one, you could even change downforce settings while pitting. And it had day /night cycle.

Tried to find a youtube vid about the pitstops in this game. I didn't find it, but I found one that shows how the day /night cycle works, at the Road Atlanta Race (Petit Le Mans). It's a fast forward version of that race (10 minutes instead of 10 hours), but if you advance the video to half its length, you'll see dusk, and at the end you're driving at night. It's the only PS2 game (that I know of) that recreated this. From 2000.

PS - I really like Road Atlanta, hope to find it in GT5. There's a track in FC (Virginia Raceway, I think) that reminded me all the fun hours I had at Road Atlanta in this old game.