No RX8 for us!

[vat_man]

I was cruising around Sydney today, looking at a few shops I've been meaning to drop in to for a while. The other's picked up a bit of a cold this weekend, so I thought I'd make myself scarce for a couple of hours and bring home some lunch on my return ('hunter-gather', if you will).

Anyhoo, in my travels, I went past a Mazda dealership and thought 'ooh, a chance to see the RX-8 in the flesh and blood, and see if I have any chance of sneaking it into contention for the Big Blue Super Sube's replacement in two years or so.

So, I drop in to the dealership. Little tips for getting attention at a dealership - drive up in something decent (preferably a year or two old car, where it might need replacement), and dress casually but neatly. 33 yo male neatly dressed stepping out of a 1-2 year old car that competes directly with one of that dealership's main models is always going to get sales attention.

Guy comes up, and I explain that we're looking to replace the Liberty/Legacy medium term, and that I'm putting together a list of potential replacements, and that the RX-8 is a long shot, but potential nonetheless. No actual lies there, although our understanding of the immediacy of the replacement may differ.

I go immediately to the potential problem - boot/trunk space - and to give him credit, he indicates it's probably going to be an issue. Once their RX-8's back, he's only too happy to show me the car (didn't want a test drive, I was in a hurry, which was probably a relief to him!). Just as I'm thinking about heading off, it reappears - that's probably understating it, this car is the BRIGHTEST yellow I have ever seen.

So we go to the boot/trunk - and yeah, I know it straight away. I'm screwed - even if they take out the space-saver spare and I just go with the can of goo, I got nuthin. The other half's just going to roll her eyes.

Shame, that. The interior is cleverly laid out. I'm 5'10 and don't have long legs for my height, so I don't take the driver seat back far, and there's plenty of room for a potentially whiny mother-out-law back there. That wretched boot - I can't even get my shoulder-carried golf bag in there, let alone a body board and a weeks worth of crap for a trip away. There might only be two of us, but we don't pack light. No Samsonite in the front of the Lotus Elise for a weekend away for us - unless you can get one with a tow bar....

So - moral is, if you're thinking that just because the RX-8 is technically a four-door you could sneak it in as a family car, think again. You can probably get little Timmy and Debbie in the back there, but you better pack light!

So - bring on the 3 litre Liberty/Legacy. There better be a manual when we're ready to trade...

 

[GilesGuthrie]

That's a bit of a shame. With the wife up for a promotion that will come with a company car, we're hopefully going to be in the market for a new car quite soon, and I was kind of hoping to steer the RX-8 into contention.

 

[vat_man]

Yeah - I'm a bit disappointed. I was surprised, it really is small - something like 290 litres, but also shallow, it's an awkward shape too - about half the size of the current Impreza boot.

Oh well....

Gee - it is a pretty thing, though. Narrow and long - I love the front end. Mazda have finally used the compact size of the rotary to their styling advantage, with a clearly defined narrow bonnet and front wheel arches, reminiscent of the current Le Mans sports cars.

 

[Famine]

*a plan forms*

My girlfriend is getting a "company car" (kind of) and the only main stipulation is that the engine capacity must be no more than 1600cc (and over 1300cc, I believe).

And the RX-8 is a 4-door, 1.3...

 

[risingson77]

Yeah, the RX8 (really RX-8, but who's keeping track?

) has the same problem as my old Tercel. It's a fair size trunk, but the opening prevents placing anything larger than a bag of groceries therein. The Integra has a good size cargo area, especially with the rear seats folded down. Unfortunately, the low roofline makes getting objects much taller than a foot or so difficult...

 

[1X83Z]

It's interesting to hear this from a Legacy owner - I've heard that the overall interior and trunk space of the Legacy are much smaller than the competition - in fact, so small that it's placed into many 'compact car' classes by magazines with strict limits on size for family sedans (cars.com and Consumer Guide, for instance). In fact, the sedan is shorter even than the Saturn Ion:

Re the backseats: I was in a Mazda dealership yesterday checking out the 3.0-liter 6 (I'm so impressed with it that I'm selling three cars for one) and the dealer had an RX-8 in the showroom - by looking at the back seats, I thought there was no way in hell I'd fit (I'm about 5'10" also), but in truth, it's a very nice fit, and somebody one or two inches taller than me could probably fit just as well. For long trips, though, I could imagine it getting very klostrophobic (it's how it's spelled) back there as the huge c-pillar is right next to you (the window is farther forward, which I genuinely don't like).

Yeah - I'm a bit disappointed. I was surprised, it really is small - something like 290 litres, but also shallow, it's an awkward shape too - about half the size of the current Impreza boot.

Indeed - its 7.6 cubic foot trunk (sorry, I feel odd saying 'boot') is about right for its competition - 350Z is 6.8, for example - but about half the size of the Legacy's.

And the RX-8 is a 4-door, 1.3...

Heh - brilliant. Try it - what's the worst that could happen?

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Originally posted by M5Power
Re the backseats: I was in a Mazda dealership yesterday checking out the 3.0-liter 6 (I'm so impressed with it that I'm selling three cars for one) and the dealer had an RX-8 in the showroom - by looking at the back seats, I thought there was no way in hell I'd fit (I'm about 5'10" also), but in truth, it's a very nice fit, and somebody one or two inches taller than me could probably fit just as well. For long trips, though, I could imagine it getting very klostrophobic (it's how it's spelled) back there as the huge c-pillar is right next to you (the window is farther forward, which I genuinely don't like).

That's one of the cars that we're considering as well.

Originally posted by M5Power
Heh - brilliant. Try it - what's the worst that could happen?

Erm, you'll get shafted on the emissions-based taxation.

 

[risingson77]

The 6 is a fine car. Avoid the auto, though (like you needed me to tell you that ). On the slightly smaller end of the scale, the MazdaSpeed Protege is a ton of fun - it handled just like a rear-wheel drive Miata! That's an accomplishment and a half right there.

 

[MazKid]

Well, in all honesty, yea, the trunk is small. It wasn't meant to be big.
Here it is, unfilled:

Some luggage:

I remember seeing a pic with a golf bag in it, but I can't find it.
Ohh well. You could always put the body board in the back seat, just use a blanket under it. Same with the golf bag.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by GilesGuthrie

Erm, you'll get shafted on the emissions-based taxation.

Dunno - co2 is 284g/km for the RX-8. For a standard 1.3-1.6L car - let's take the Fiesta 1.6 - it's only 157 g/km. See? Only nearly double. Not so bad!

Originally posted by risingson77
The 6 is a fine car. Avoid the auto, though (like you needed me to tell you that ). On the slightly smaller end of the scale, the MazdaSpeed Protege is a ton of fun - it handled just like a rear-wheel drive Miata! That's an accomplishment and a half right there.

Actually, auto with sport-shift manumatic tiptronic automanual (every make has a different name for it - I hate that) is an option I will be gladly getting - what's wrong with it?

 

[risingson77]

There's a huge lag between throttle input and response, even in "Wanna-be"...er, manumatic mode. I really can't stand that, especially on a "sporty" car.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by risingson77
There's a huge lag between throttle input and response, even in "Wanna-be"...er, manumatic mode. I really can't stand that, especially on a "sporty" car.

But there's a solution - check it:

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=292868&page=2

 

[risingson77]

Interesting. But I still say there's no substitute for cable throttle and a clutch.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by M5Power
It's interesting to hear this from a Legacy owner - I've heard that the overall interior and trunk space of the Legacy are much smaller than the competition - in fact, so small that it's placed into many 'compact car' classes by magazines with strict limits on size for family sedans (cars.com and Consumer Guide, for instance). In fact, the sedan is shorter even than the Saturn Ion:

Well, that's what happens when you've got to accomodate a diff and some driveshafts back there, I guess. We had a Vectra previously (old shape), which courtesy of a high bootline and deep bottom to the boot, had huge boot space, plus the benefit of a split fold rear seat (guess what happens when you've a hatch in the range). The size is fine for us, although a ski-port is no substitute for a split fold rear seat.

We'll be looking at the 6 when the time comes - problem is we only get the 2.3 litre 4. We'll see.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by risingson77
Interesting. But I still say there's no substitute for cable throttle and a clutch.

I think that is the substitute, or as damn close as one can get!

We'll be looking at the 6 when the time comes - problem is we only get the 2.3 litre 4. We'll see.

The V6 engine itself is built in the US, as are US-spec cars, which is why you don't get it - it's too bad, also, because it's such a good engine, and at such an attractive price. US 6-cylinder family sedans are involved in major horsepower wars, so they must've reckoned the V6 should be competing there - maybe if the rest of the world complains enough they'll start to open it up to other markets.

The four-cylinder isn't bad, by the way - it's probably comparable and slightly better than your Legacy.

 

[risingson77]

I shall accept it as a substitute when I no longer have full use of my limbs. Sorry, there's just no reasoning with me on this point!

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by M5Power
The V6 engine itself is built in the US, as are US-spec cars, which is why you don't get it - it's too bad, also, because it's such a good engine, and at such an attractive price. US 6-cylinder family sedans are involved in major horsepower wars, so they must've reckoned the V6 should be competing there - maybe if the rest of the world complains enough they'll start to open it up to other markets.

The four-cylinder isn't bad, by the way - it's probably comparable and slightly better than your Legacy.

It's had very good reviews here, and I've been impressed with the 6 - especially after the bland greyness of the previous model. I know three people who have top spec hatches and they're nice cars.

All bets are off until the new Liberty/Legacy.

There's a couple of others on the list at the moment - I do like the new Euro Accord (they've launched the US wide-body model, but if it's Camry size it'll probably be a bit bigger than what we're ideally after). I wouldn't bother with a Vectra again, particularly at the prices Holden is asking for them. The Lexus IS is too dear, similar sized Europeans can't compete on value-for-money terms, and I believe the Japanese mid-sizers are better cars anyway.

Of course, none of this takes into account that a certain someone has decided she needs AWD, so much of this discussion is moot anyway...

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by vat_man

Of course, none of this takes into account that a certain someone has decided she needs AWD, so much of this discussion is moot anyway...

Excepting this statement, with what you've indicated, I think the Mazda 6 would be ideal for you - but you're right that 'all bets are off' until the new Legacy. Do you know what base engine is to be in the new Legacy?

 

[Famine]

Umm... The UK gets a 4WD Mazda 6...

 

[SaleenASL]

Originally posted by M5Power
Excepting this statement, with what you've indicated, I think the Mazda 6 would be ideal for you - but you're right that 'all bets are off' until the new Legacy. Do you know what base engine is to be in the new Legacy?

According to Autoweek, the U.S. gets a non-turbocharged 2.5L making about 170HP, which is the carryover powerplant. Then there is the 3.0L flat six @ 247HP. And the turbocharded 3.0L @ about 250HP.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by Famine
Umm... The UK gets a 4WD Mazda 6...

I went and had a look at the Mazda UK site - 2.3 wagon only. I wonder who that's aimed at.

The 6 is right up there. The other half's quite favourably disposed to them, but she loves the Liberty/Legacy dearly - and given her endearing habit of braking whilst cornering BEFORE the apex, I'd really prefer AWD.

If there was an AWD manual Mazda 6 hatch - oof, no contest.

 

[Famine]

Yep - I just pulled my Top Gear and it says:

Mazda 6
2.3 Sport AWD; Type: E (for estate). £20k dead... 139hp, 134 lbft, 100hp/tonne, 0-60mph in 9 flat.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Famine

Mazda 6
2.3 Sport AWD; Type: E (for estate). £20k dead... 139hp, 134 lbft, 100hp/tonne, 0-60mph in 9 flat.

'Car' ripped up the AWD Estate; they scored it lowest out of all Mazda 6's - even with that, I'd love an AWD Hatch; like vat_man says it presents the most sensible choice - hatchback rear space plus all-wheel drive. If it had V6, it'd even be more of a bonus - I'd buy three (seriously) immediately.

 

[vat_man]

Any idea what kind of AWD system the wagon runs? It better not be one of those useless 'on demand' systems.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by vat_man
Any idea what kind of AWD system the wagon runs? It better not be one of those useless 'on demand' systems.

Sort of, but not very similar - from 'Car' 1/03: "The four-wheel drive is actually the good bit. An electronically controlled torque-biasing system allows a 50/50 split at a standing start but reverts to front-wheel drive on motorways for increased efficacy in each situation. It does work, but subtly. There is certainly none of the indecision and shunt-and-pull of VW's 4Motion system, where diffs and electronics battle between themselves to apportion power to the appropriate wheel before letting you know where it's got to go. Instead, the Mazda feels like you could throw it at a corner at any speed and the car would merely shurg and perhaps mutter a muted 'pah.'"

 

[vat_man]

Seems sensible, if a little complicated - must confess to being a fan of the Subaru manual transmission AWD system because it's comparatively simple and effective.

I saw a couple of reviews for the 6 wagon - standing start performance seems 'compromised', to the tune of about 3 seconds to 100kmh!

 

[KoKaiNe]

why say NO RX8 FOR US?.. I don't get it?

 

[vat_man]

Us as in 'my partner and I' - not the US.