Noble M12 Engine? Where did it originally come from.

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Poverty

Poverty

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Basically Im having a argument with a thick headed Brit, who belives he knows everything about cars, and when I said the engine originally came out of an american ford minivan, he is saying that its not its from the mondeo :dunce:

Ive tried explaning now I need some factual evidence to show this idiot up.:sly:


Disclaimer: Im a Brit too before any one says anything about my thick headed comment. :indiff:
 
Well, the engine has been used in the Mondeo (though I've also heard it was used in a minivan), so you could argue that the engines come from either. I assume you mean which came first: the minivan or the Mondeo though...?)
 
amp88
Well, the engine has been used in the Mondeo (though I've also heard it was used in a minivan), so you could argue that the engines come from either. I assume you mean which came first: the minivan or the Mondeo though...?)
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Yeah, knew it came from the mondeo. Just trying to build up a link between the minivans engine and that in the noble.
 
It was, like most engines these days, developed to be used in a variety of platforms - not specifically for one and then used in another. I believe that the only Ford product that has used the V6 duratec in the UK or Europe is the Mondeo.

A quick look in Wikipedia will sort out any arguments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mondeo_V6_engine

'primary engineering input came from Porsche'

...doesn't sound too humble to me
 
Yes, and as a rule of thumb it's now almost impossible to say that an engine came from a specific car, especially if it's a major manufacturer. For example, the 1.8T engine that you can have installed in your Radical is also fitted to VW Golf, Bora/Jetta, Passat, Sharan; Seat Leon, Cordoba, Alhambra; Audi A3, A4, A6, TT; Skoda Octavia, Superb.

Ford's TDCi engines are right across the model range, but are also the same as the PSA HDi units found in Citroens and Peugeots. The V6 Diesel engine in a Volvo V70 is actually made by Audi.

The list goes on.

The engine in the Noble M12 is, as has already been stated, a Ford Duratec unit
 
Ok, just need to wait for some of our american cousins to come along now and tell me the name of that minivan with the duratec engine.
 
Poverty
Ok, just need to wait for some of our american cousins to come along now and tell me the name of that minivan with the duratec engine.
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I know it went in the 2000 Mazda MPV - can't find any other MPV it went in
 
The Duratec family started with the 2.5 V6 in 1994, though the name is now applied to a variety of engines. BUT 3.0 Duratec started off life in the Mondeo and has made its way to the S-Type Jaguar and Mazda6, along with, more recently, the Ford Escape (minivan), Mazda Tribute (minivan) and Mazda MPV (minivan) but the engines differ quite significantly - some have VVT, some don't, for instance.

The engine in the Mondeo - the Duratec ST - is specifically used in the Mondeo ST220 and no other Ford family application, and I believe it's this which is used in the Noble M12 GTO3R.

So while it's related to an engine later used in a minivan, the engine originated in Mondeos and the Noble's specific engine comes directly from a Mondeo and isn't used in any other application.
 
The '95> Windstar had a V6 - but it was the Vulcan or Essex V6 not the Duratec.
 
This should add to Famine's piece

Duratec 30

The 3.0 L Duratec 30 or Mazda AJ was introduced in 1996 as a replacement for the 232 in³ (3.8 L) Essex V6 in the Taurus/Sable. It has 2967 cc of displacement and produces between 200 and 240 horsepower (150 and 180 kW). The same basic engine is used in the Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV, Mazda6, Mondeo ST220 and many other Ford vehicles. It is essentially a bored-out (to 88.9 mm) Duratec 25 and is built in Ford's Cleveland, OH #2 plant. A slightly modified version for the Ford Five Hundred entered production at the Cleveland, OH #1 plant in 2004.

There are two key versions of the Duratec 30:

* DAMB - The Lincoln LS and Jaguar AJ30 versions have direct-acting mechanical bucket (DAMB) tappets. Output is 232 hp (173 kW) at 6750 RPM with 220 ft·lbf (298 N·m) of torque at 4500 rpm.
* RFF - The Taurus/Sable/Escape version uses roller finger followers (RFF) instead and produces 201 hp (150 kW) at 5900 RPM with 207 ft·lbf (281 N·m) of torque at 4400 rpm.

The 2006 Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and Lincoln Zephyr will feature a version of the Duratec 30 utilizing variable valve timing. The engine will have an output of 221 horsepower (165 kW) at 6250 rpm, and 205 ft·lbf (278 N·m) of torque at 4800 rpm.

Mazda's MZI version adds variable valve timing, as does Jaguar's AJ30. Note that the MZI name is also used in Europe on Mazda's version of the Ford Sigma I4. The 3.0 L, 226 hp V6 used in the Mondeo ST220 is called Duratec ST. The 3.0 L, 204 hp V6 in the Mondeo Titanium is called Duratec SE.
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The engine used in the Noble is indeed the Durartec ST, the sole other application for that particulr version of the Duratec engine range (Duratec by the way is now the generic name given to all of Ford Europe,s petrol engines and all of Ford USA's DOHC petrol engines).

However the origins of the Duratec 30 (which is the exact engine family we are talking about) is much earlier and was introduced across a number of models, however the first (in 1996) was indeed the European Mondeo.

So while the Duratec 30 has been used in minivans (and a lot else) it could be argued that it started life as a Mondeo engine.

Edited to add: I almost forgot to say that the Duratec 30 is of course derived from the Duratec 25 (its a bored out version), however the first application of that unit was once again the Mondeo (in 1994). This unit did however very quickly find use in a lot of Ford and Mazda MPVs and Minivans.


TheCracker
The '95> Windstar had a V6 - but it was the Vulcan or Essex V6 not the Duratec.
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Quite right, the very engine that the Duratec 30 replaced (but was not derived from).


Regards

Scaff
 
Anyway, saying the Noble uses a Ford Minivan engine is a bit like saying this:



uses the same engine as this:



It's true, but only to the slightest extent.
 
Hey, them Nailhead Buicks were hot engines!

Still, couldn't Noble use an engine that had some sort of performance-based platform?...like a Nissan VQ?
 
What does the car the engines taken from matter if the engines good for it, and the the ST220 is a performance model.
 
[Off Topic]That TVR Griffith is at the (now derelict) Reims GP circuit in France. It's an incredible place to go to. Eerie[/off topic]
 
Windstars had the pushrod 3.0 V6 but I think we just got the DOHC 3.0 in sedans.

In '81 I don't think Ford was making minivans in the US.
 
Ford Freestyle minivan uses the same drivetrain as the Ford Fusion. CVT transmission and the 3.0l Duratec. I actually rather like it, I drove an AWD version and got it up to 95mph with ZERO trouble and it didn't feel like I was in a minivan. It doesn't look half bad for a minivan either.

fsy06_010_ext_lg.jpg
 
Poverty
Didnt some of the american guys say it was in an '81 ford?
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If they did they were wrong - the word 'Duratec' has only been used since 94 - the year the V6 version appeared in the Mondeo

- Aston Martin thought the Duratec V6 was so good they stuck two of them together, with the help of Cosworth, and now use it in all their cars!
 
I guess the Duratec's alright...so why does it suck so much in the Five-Hundred?
 
Jim Prower
I guess the Duratec's alright...so why does it suck so much in the Five-Hundred?
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Heavy car, under powered, and it doesn't have the CVT transmission that the Fusion has. Otherwise the Five Hundred is a great car--just needs more power. the 6spd transmission is alright--but I think the CVT is better. Also why does the Fusion have 20bhp more? Wouldn't logic dictate that a larger car (Five Hundred) need more power?
 
The Fusion's Engine is based on the Mazda V6. I guess the packaging between the Fusion and Five Hundred (which, I believe, uses the Taurus engine) Is different enough to necessitate different tunes. still, Ford could put a different cam in or something. bore it out a bit.
 
skip0110
...which is based on the Ford Duratec ;) (Mazda had input on the head design but that's about it)
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So you could put Mazda heads on a Taurus block?

Mweheheheh....Frankienstein Motor...
 
lol from 1 engine we have now gone through a range of engines and learnt loads of different stuff. This boards great for swapping ideas and information. 👍
 
Poverty
lol from 1 engine we have now gone through a range of engines and learnt loads of different stuff. This boards great for swapping ideas and information. 👍
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And to throw a bit more into the equation. The Jaguar version of the Duratec. :sly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_AJ-V6_engine

I've always wondered what was different with the Jaguar versions. I guess it tells you there. :)

Edit: Actualy, the quote in Scaff's post already explains a bit about the engine.
 
... Ford just bored out the Duratec 3.0L to 3.5L for some of the new sedans, crossovers, etc. I belive power has been bumped up from just above 200 to near 250, but I believe that it still lacks the torque given out by the DCX and GM V6s of the same size.
 

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