One Game Changing Aspect

  • Thread starter PKGTR
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PKGTR
I've been a lifelong Gran Turismo fan and even if I don't post on these forums too often, I think it's time I mentioned this.

I think it's time PD fixed the third person camera. The Gran Turismo series has always been enjoyable but when I'm not on bumper view and just feel like doing some relaxed racing, I go for the third person view. When I'm in this view, I usually like to admire the car from all angles. One thing Forza got right was the full 360 degree view of the car.

Not only does the lack of the 360 degree view ruin third person, but the camera angle itself seems pretty awkward (personal preference) and third person as a whole makes the game feel so stiff and unpleasant.

I just hope this gets to PD and that I'm not the only one who's annoyed by this. T10 had it perfect with FM3 but threw it away with FM4 (the stupid drawing away from the car at speed ruined it) and the cameras in FM3 just seemed perfect for racing games.
 
For those of us that haven't played Forza, can you explain what "the full 360 degree view of the car" means?

I've been using 3rd person cam since GT1. It'd better not be messed with!
 
For those of us that haven't played Forza, can you explain what "the full 360 degree view of the car" means?

I've been using 3rd person cam since GT1. It'd better not be messed with!

it means when you use the right stick to look around (behind you for instance) it always shows the car...you can literally rotate the stick and it keeps the car centered in the screen and will spin around you...
 
it means when you use the right stick to look around (behind you for instance) it always shows the car...you can literally rotate the stick and it keeps the car centered in the screen and will spin around you...

Who has time for that while your racing. Next thing I know, I crash into a car checking out my ride. That what makes forza so Arcady.
 
Who has time for that while your racing. Next thing I know, I crash into a car checking out my ride. That what makes forza so Arcady.

How does checking the visual damage on a car, and being able to turn the chase cam 360 degrees while driving make a game 'arcady'?

Your logic is flawed. Besides, the 360 degree rotational chase camera is something that GT has been needing to implement for over 10 years.
 
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Who has time for that while your racing. Next thing I know, I crash into a car checking out my ride. That what makes forza so Arcady.

it has nothing to do with being "arcady" its just simply that the car is in view when you look around...this idea that Forza is "so Arcady" is stupid...

you can check out this video...and see it @ ~57sec (i set the video to start at 50 seconds...he doesnt go all the way around in the 360, but you get the idea of how it looks

http://youtu.be/2kAp_wRjjbw?t=50s


now the flip side to this is the interior cam...in GT5 when you look behind you in cockpit cam you see the back seat and are looking out the rear window...in Forza, when in cockpit cam and you look back its like using a rear bumper cam...
 
I agree, sorta.
I think the 3rd person camera is indeed too stiff. It was one of the things that made me put off buying GT5, until I eventually got it of course. It's just that it makes it look as if the track is revolving around the car instead of the car moving around the track,
 
I agree, details like that make games much more enjoyable, I wasn't expecting a rotating chase cam feature but I was hoping for a better chase camera at least. You know...closer to the car and more dynamic like the one in GT3.
 
I also want a better chase camera but i doubt it will happen. It would make driving cars without interiors much better IMO.
 
I never use the chase camera and even if I did I would not want to scroll around the car. That really has no reason to be there.

What GT does need is a proper hood view option rather than just bumper and roof. Bumper shows none of the car and roof is to high. I want to see at least some of the hood on most cars but detest the cockpit view due to how must the view port is limited by stuff that should not really be in your field of view. To much roof, side window and dash visible and the part where you need to look to the road ahead is reduced to less than 1/3rd the size of your display.
 
IROC89CAMARO

This smells like trolling, for one thing, because the topic wasn't about physics. It was completely off topic. You just plugged it in there for the sake of attacking something.

To answer your off-topic comment, I skimmed through the article and didn't see where he said the physics would be inferior to GT6. All I saw was that FM5 wouldn't just focus on simulation, which doesn't mean it won't have simulation aspects like physics, so much as implying that it will go beyond just ticking the simulator check boxes.
 
so you never look behind or to the sides of your car?
that's what mirrors are for ;)

It would be nice if we had optional right and left side view mirrors at the edge of the screen in addition to option rear view in bumper, roof and hopefully a hood view so we could see what is coming up left right and behind from any of these views.

Trying to use the controls on a wheel to look left right or behind is both weird and a bit awkward as well as not realistic. For example IRL I can't turn my head 180 and look behind me when I am driving, I use the rear view mirror instead, I may glance out the drivers window or across the car for a split second but rarely as I usually know what is there based on having saw it in the side view mirrors already. Using the look right or left options changes your view 90 degrees left or right and you see none of the road ahead it is just odd. IRL even if you were to glance out one of the windows the road ahead is still in the edge of your field of vision.

Anyway as I said I do not use chase view. I haven't for a long time though I used to once upon a time. Even when or if I did use I would not want to scroll around the car while driving as that would likely lead to a crash and really serve no purpose and is far beyond any sort of realism. For example try getting out of your real car and looking around it while driving and you'll find that is not such a good thing to try as well as not possible to do.

Most people who drive with a wheel will not use chase view other than maybe flick into it for a moment to hear the sound out the back or get a quick view of their car. It is far to awkward to drive from that view with a wheel.
 
Anyway as I said I do not use chase view. I haven't for a long time though I used to once upon a time.
yet you requested a new roof cam...which i don't use...I wouldn't argue against the inclusion of an "improved" roof cam just because i don't use it...so why argue against an improved chase cam?

Even when or if I did use I would not want to scroll around the car while driving as that would likely lead to a crash and really serve no purpose and is far beyond any sort of realism. For example try getting out of your real car and looking around it while driving and you'll find that is not such a good thing to try as well as not possible to do.

1. you're completely missing the point..its not asked for simply so you can spin the camera around in circles...obviously a poor choice...

What people want it for is: 1. that its just plain better looking than going from chase cam while driving, then when you look around you lose the view of your car and 2. It gives you a nice 360 degree view of the track instead of just in 90 degree increments as GT does now...

also...you argue against the chase cam's "realism" yet again you want a new roof cam?...

I will turn your argument around on you...

For example try getting out of your real car and sitting on the roof while driving and you'll find that is not such a good thing to try as well as not possible to do.

Most people who drive with a wheel will not use chase view other than maybe flick into it for a moment to hear the sound out the back or get a quick view of their car. It is far to awkward to drive from that view with a wheel.

1. i use chase cam with a wheel
2. with the Forza chase cam you can "flick into it" and hear the sound from the back, from the front, from the sides whatever...or "get a quick view" of your car from ANY angle instead of just the back...

did you get into the back of the car in front of you during the last corner? want to check any damage? you can with the 360 degree chase cam...

3. its really not any less awkward than the cockpit view which so many people love...i mean with my wheel in front of me...then seeing a SECOND wheel with 2 more hands on my screen...awkward?
 
yet you requested a new roof cam...which i don't use...I wouldn't argue against the inclusion of an "improved" roof cam just because i don't use it...so why argue against an improved chase cam?
No I requested a proper hood cam. All racing games should have this and most do but GT has a roof cam instead which is not as good as a proper hood cam would be.
1. you're completely missing the point..its not asked for simply so you can spin the camera around in circles...obviously a poor choice...

What people want it for is: 1. that its just plain better looking than going from chase cam while driving, then when you look around you lose the view of your car and 2. It gives you a nice 360 degree view of the track instead of just in 90 degree increments as GT does now...
I'm not arguing against a chase cam. I just said that the 360 rotation does not need to be there, does not serve any real purpose. Chase cam does need to be there and if they can improve it that is fine. I know a lot of people who use it, all controller users but that is what they like and it needs to be there for sure.

also...you argue against the chase cam's "realism" yet again you want a new roof cam?...
Again I said "Hood" cam. I am not asking to drive from the roof nor peer out the sunroof of the car.

What I would like to see is a view that shows you looking out over the hood of the car like the one that Forza does have and I use. I do not like cokpit view because the view is to restricted. you see far to much roof, to much dash and to much drivers door/window yet you do not see the hood of the car. When I drive a real car my view is unobstructed by the roof and I only see the instrument panel when I look down slightly. When looking straight ahead I see the hood of my car [on most cars] and the road ahead. I do not see my hands on the steering wheel and my view of my roof is not = to my view of the road ahead.

So IMO a proper hood view [or should I say Bonnet view] is closer to what I would really see while driving than the cockpit view which is more like riding in the back seat.

1. i use chase cam with a wheel
Really? I would think you would be a rare exception then. I know people who drove chase view for years but within a week of getting a wheel they stopped because they were much more comfortable in any view other than that one and thier driving improved quite a bit.

2. with the Forza chase cam you can "flick into it" and hear the sound from the back, from the front, from the sides whatever...or "get a quick view" of your car from ANY angle instead of just the back...
Ok, I have never saw a reason to want to do this while driving.

did you get into the back of the car in front of you during the last corner? want to check any damage? you can with the 360 degree chase cam...
Isn't that what the damage display is for? I would think that would tell you much better than looking at the visual damage and have the added benefit of still being able to see where you are going.

3. its really not any less awkward than the cockpit view which so many people love...i mean with my wheel in front of me...then seeing a SECOND wheel with 2 more hands on my screen...awkward?
I agree that the cockpit view is awkward, I do not like the wheel on the screen either just odd to see that and those animated hands while my own hands are on the wheel in front of me. Still chase view is much more awkward than any other view. I guess you could get used to it but it really is nothing like driving an actual car. Your view is restricted by the car the corner ahead is both farther ahead of you and partially blocked by your car, very much so if you are using a van or SUV. Also most people tend to over correct when using a wheel from this view when the car starts to get loose.
 
GT2 had a good enough chase came. Can't they just go back to that?

What I really want is a hood cam. Preferably something on driver eye level mounted on the windshield. Having your view properly obstructed by the roof and A-pillars without the ability to look around freely is not realistic. Until they can do VR right a cockpit view isn't accurate... however, it is nice that you get to see some of the car you drive. 'Hood' view makes each car unique while driving and gives you a less obstructed view without being massively unrealistic like 'bumper' view.
 
Eks
I agree, sorta.
I think the 3rd person camera is indeed too stiff. It was one of the things that made me put off buying GT5, until I eventually got it of course. It's just that it makes it look as if the track is revolving around the car instead of the car moving around the track,

Yes it does appear like that because the track is moving around the car as far as I know.
 
With the chase cam, it feels like the road and environment (or screen) moves but the car doesn't.

I didn't think people actually used the chase cam, except for taking pics. I find it (IMO) as useful as the cockpit view, non. For visuals only.
 
Eks
It's just that it makes it look as if the track is revolving around the car instead of the car moving around the track,

If I had to agree with anything, it's this. The dead centering on the car ruins third person in my opinion. Even making the third person more dynamic by doing up to maybe 5 degrees of rotation on turns would be better. That GT2 video was a great example.

I will point out again as I did before. I only use third person for relaxed racing. When I want to appreciate the environment while taking it slow, I would like to enjoy sightseeing with more than 4 different angles.

I personally use the bumper camera when I'm seriously racing with the DS3 and in-car with my G25. I can agree that a a better hood view would be helpful (and I'd probably switch to that from bumper if they improved it).
 
There was an update that made the chase cam more dynamic but then a few people complained of travel-sickness feelings because it was flexing with the cornering. It got re-patched back to pretty much as it was before.

Maybe they will have looked at another way to do this for GT6. The full rotation isn't so important for me though, as I rarely have time to pan around the vehicle during a run, there are more pressing issues to deal with. In replay mode though, a 360° close flyby might well be a good idea.
 
I personally use the bumper camera when I'm seriously racing with the DS3 and in-car with my G25. I can agree that a a better hood view would be helpful (and I'd probably switch to that from bumper if they improved it).
The problem is that there is no hood view in GT. What we have is a roof view instead.
 
yet you requested a new roof cam...which i don't use...I wouldn't argue against the inclusion of an "improved" roof cam just because i don't use it...so why argue against an improved chase cam?

1. you're completely missing the point..its not asked for simply so you can spin the camera around in circles...obviously a poor choice...

What people want it for is: 1. that its just plain better looking than going from chase cam while driving, then when you look around you lose the view of your car and 2. It gives you a nice 360 degree view of the track instead of just in 90 degree increments as GT does now...

also...you argue against the chase cam's "realism" yet again you want a new roof cam?...

I will turn your argument around on you...

For example try getting out of your real car and sitting on the roof while driving and you'll find that is not such a good thing to try as well as not possible to do.

1. i use chase cam with a wheel
2. with the Forza chase cam you can "flick into it" and hear the sound from the back, from the front, from the sides whatever...or "get a quick view" of your car from ANY angle instead of just the back...

did you get into the back of the car in front of you during the last corner? want to check any damage? you can with the 360 degree chase cam...

3. its really not any less awkward than the cockpit view which so many people love...i mean with my wheel in front of me...then seeing a SECOND wheel with 2 more hands on my screen...awkward?

Chase view and steering wheel?
You probably suck then.
 
Who has time for that while your racing. Next thing I know, I crash into a car checking out my ride. That what makes forza so Arcady.

I do. Actually I was very disappointed that GT5 didn't have the 3rd person 360 cam feature.

Chase view and steering wheel?
You probably suck then.

Having greater visibility is very much advantageous. Personally I use it for trying out new lines and knowing each inch of the track.
 
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