Online drift settings help please

[ANTthePANT79]

Sup guys...

So I been trying to tune my V8 Vantage '99 for online drifting and I am about to throw my toys out the cot . I can't seem to get rid of the mid corner spin outs! In offline mode I can power this baby around the corners and have full control over it, but in online, too much gas and I spin out. It feels like I have to tip toe round the corners. I know the physics are different, but I am having a real hard time tuning the car. I have a feeling it's in the LSD settings, but I am not sure... I'll post my 2 setups below as a comparison.

Using DFGT wheel

Offline Setting:
RH = -15 -15
SR = 7.9 7.9
Damp E = 4 4
Damp C = 4 4
Anti R = 2 4
Camb = 2.5 0.0
Toe = -0.08 0.20

LSD = 10 40 20

Brake = 3 6

Gears = Top Speed 350km/h with 2nd gear set at 2.230

Offline Setting:
RH = -15 -15
SR = 7.9 7.9
Damp E = 4 4
Damp C = 4 4
Anti R = 2 4
Camb = 2.5 0.7
Toe = -0.00 0.20

LSD = 10 40 20

Brake = 3 6

Gears = Top Speed 350km/h with 2nd gear set at 2.230

I've bolded the changes I have made so far. I have tried playing with the LSD but I am not too sure what I am doing with it... I find that if I set the Accel down slightly, to say 38, then the mid corner control is a bit better but I straighten out way too early when exiting the corner.

Anyone have some tuning advice to fix my problem?

Regards,
Ant

 

[Nismo34]

Tune it completly in online mode... That'll be the only way to fully be able to tune it to your liking, however, if I were to hazard a guess at how to fix it, try softening the rear spring rate to 6.9-5.9 keeping the front at 7.9.

 

[ANTthePANT79]

I'll give that a try dude...

And I shoulda mentioned that I did tune the online spec from scratch in my lounge...

EDIT: could it be the power? Maybe I should drop it a bit in online mode? Current HP is 958BHP and weight is 1487kgs

 

[Nismo34]

Also, try locking the Diff up (Initial: 10, Accel: 60, Braking 30 or 60), That should help control it a little more aswell as reduce the spinning.

 

[ANTthePANT79]

Lemme try that, I tried the suspension changes, they seem to have stabalised the spinning, but I have a hard time maintaining speed in the drift now... I exit the corner in the middle of the track and not on the outside like I used to...

 

[Nismo34]

Alright, if the Diff doesnt fix your speed issue, bump the rear SR back up to 7.9 and bump up the front to 8.9 or 9.9.

 

[ANTthePANT79]

Nope, that just made the car way too twitchy and made the spin outs worse... SR back down to 7.9 6.9

LSD seems to have helped, although I now seem to snake alot when transitioning esses...

EDIT: I am trying 10 55 30 on my diff and it seems to be doing the trick... gonna run a few laps and will report back...

EDIT2: Well, it seems to have helped, sorta... but I still spin out if I give too much gas... Also, I have this thing that happens in the turns, I get to a point and suddenly my front tyre start going red and I lose speed big time... happens mainly on turn one and the final turn at Tsukuba... I either lose speed or I lose from end traction and I just slide off the track...

Any ideas?

 

[Nismo34]

Yea its all just trial and error, trying to work out what works for you.

 

[ANTthePANT79]

I think I should go back to an easier car... Like I did when I learnt to drift offline, because this is killing me! hahaha...

Think I needa break out my Z4 for a bit of calmer drifting... Maybe I have to drive differently online than what I do offline...

 

[Nismo34]

Yea, something a little more sedate and calm may be the way to go :Lol: I tend to avoid drifting huge horsepower cars and stick to around 500hp... I do occasionally bring out my 1000hp Viper but It does require alot of concentration and tuning to get it right.

As for the losing front end grip, is it your inside tyre or outside going red? May be a camber issue...

EDIT: Just took my Viper for a spin and found the same front end issue. I found it mainly occurs when I enter really aggressivly or the car is at an angle greater than what the front wheels are at therefore the front wheels just get dragged along and you lose all grip. I found backing off the throttle and reducing angle helped...

 

[ANTthePANT79]

Both go red, but it starts with the outside one

 

[Nismo34]

Both go red, but it starts with the outside one

Try easing off the throttle abit, add a bit more countersteer, and reduce angle a little bit.. You dont need to straighten up completly, but just enough so that the wheels are pointing in the same direction as what the car is travelling..

 

[ANTthePANT79]

Try easing off the throttle abit.

Problem is, it happens when i am at a mad angle already, hahaha... Normally happens slowly on the long bends and very quickly on the tighter ones...

Ima practice a bit more tomorrow, so will see how it goes then...

Thanks for all your help dude, I can't believe there's no one else with advice...

 

[twitcher]

I would definitely try turning down the power. 958 is quite excessive, even for an experienced drifter, never mind one that is still learning.

We talk about HP numbers quite a bit on these forums, but it's important to remember that in drifting, HP isnt really that important...what is important is torque. Many of those very high powered cars (Vette, Viper, C63, Supra) maintain their high torque numbers even as you decrease the power level.

Lowering the HP, but still having relatively high torque allows you to still be able to brake traction by using the throttle, but reduces excess wheel spin when at full throttle (and thus helps controll full throttle spin outs more).

The other thing you could try is using ballast to help control the wheelspin. I'm not sure what the natural ballance of that car is, but if the front is heavier than the rear, use ballast in the rear to being the ballance closer to 50/50.

One more thing, you could try adding more positive toe to the rear, as this will cause te rear end to be less twitchy.

 

[ANTthePANT79]

Wow Twitcher!!! Thanks for the response dude. Alot of it makes good sense to me!

I guess I'm being a little ambitious for online mode... The annoying thing is that this car is an absolute dream in offline mode and I've racked up 23-24k points on Tsukuba with it, but when I get online it's a scary, twitchy and tail-happy machine!

So tomorrow when I break out my DFGT ima take your advice and try it out... I'll report back once I've done so!

 

[twitcher]

No prob man, glad to help. I had another look at your online settings, and came up with a few more things you could try to help give the back end more grip, which will stabilize the car mid drift. There's many different ways to do this. I'll list the ones I can think of...but don't do all of these at once. Try them individually to see how they affect the car.

Ride Height - try lowering the front one or two clicks, and/or raise the back one or two clicks. Experiement to see what feels best. But basically, having the rear higher than the front adds grip to the rear and induces understeer. Conversely, having the front higher than the rear causes oversteer.

Spring rate - like Nismo said, try making the rear softer than the front. Either reduce the rear, or increase the front.

Anti-roll Bars - try lowering roll bar settings. This causes the car to have more body roll, which allows you to transfer more weight to the outside rear tire, which can help control oversteer. Try a few different settings: 2-3, 1-3, 1-2. Another thing you can try is making the rear softer than the front...I don't usually set up my cars that way (I prefer rear stiffer than front), but in theory, having the rear softer than the front should increase rear grip.

Camber - reducing the rear camber will increase the contact patch of the rear tires, giving them more grip.

Hope those help. But before any of that, I would definitely turn down the power. That's a pretty heavy car, especially if you start adding ballast, so I would try something in the 600-650 range. Maybe as high as 700 if it seems really sluggish.

 

[ANTthePANT79]

Soooooo...

I finally got it...

I switched over to my Fairlady Z (Z3) and went into my lounge... Set everything to default and started setting up from there... My settings are now:

501HP
1301kg (60kg ballast for 50-50 weight dist)

Tranny - 300kn/h

LSD - 10 40 15

RH = -20 -20
SR = 7.5 9.5
Damp = All 5
Anti Roll = 1 2

Camber = 2.0 0.0
Toe = -0.08 0.10

Brakes = 2

I've found that lowering the front camber to 2.0 really helped with the spin outs! Only problem was it made me snap back all the time. So I softened up the front alot more and took your advice on the stablisers, twitcher! I also decreased the rear toe to make this car more twitchy, as it had major trouble with transitions...

Some things I feel need to be improved somehow (here's where I need your help) are:

1. Speed maintenance in mid drift - I find that I lose speed mid drift because I come off the gas alot to prevent the rear from overtaking me. If I gas too early, I still get the spin outs, but they happen more to the exit than the middle. If I gas too late, I have lost all my speed and I simply wheel spin up the middle of the track instead of exiting smoothly.

2. Over some undulating bends, like in Autumn Ring, the car has a tendency to wanna straighten out when linking 2 left or right handers together. I have trouble maintaining wheel angle and have to straighten out a bit to keep the car going sideways and extend the drift into the next corner. Is this normal? Because when I was drifting offline I would just ease off the throttle and then back on again when I was approaching the next apex. If I do this now, I get the spin out, if I don't then I have to straighten out to maintain the drift.

Other notes: It seems I have had to "relearn" to drift now that I am in online mode, as everything I was doing in offline is completely messing me up in online. I did about 30 practice laps around AR with my current setup and was really starting to get it together on the last 10 or so laps... I'll keep practicing, but don't wanna have to practice my bad settings away. I'd rather know I have the car right, then practice the new drifting physics...

Regards,
Ant

 

[pergatory]

Try getting rid of the toe angles (0.00 front & rear), and increasing your dampers a little. Based on your spring rate, I'd say maybe 6 or 7 on the front, and 5 or 6 rear.

Also, definitely set the LSD to 10/60/60. If you find this causes other problems, I suggest addressing those separately rather than setting the LSD back to where it was.

 

[Nismo34]

I would have actually increased the rear toe to about 0.30 to help keep the back end behind and I'd bump up the rear camber to 0.4-0.7..

 

[twitcher]

Try getting rid of the toe angles (0.00 front & rear), and increasing your dampers a little. Based on your spring rate, I'd say maybe 6 or 7 on the front, and 5 or 6 rear.

Also, definitely set the LSD to 10/60/60. If you find this causes other problems, I suggest addressing those separately rather than setting the LSD back to where it was.

That's the second thread I've seen you say to go with zero toe. I think in the other thread, you said toe has no place on a drift car, or something like that. Care to explain why?

Most set-ups I've seen use positive rear toe to keep the back planted mid drift and smoother through transitions, and negative front toe to make the front more responsive.

Plus, negative toe in the front helps reduce the loss of grip due to camber thrust.

Is there solid reasoning behind your zero toe theory, or is it just something that you've found that works best for you?