Open Convertibles in Races?

[Jedi2016]

This occurred to me today watching one of the recent videos.

If every car now has a full interior, and that interior is always present in races (now that the windows are actually clear)... this should mean that we'll be able to drive convertibles with the top down in a 16-car race. From a rendering standpoint, it no longer makes any difference, like it did on GT4.. the number of polys would remain the same, or actually go down, since the roof isn't being rendered.

Sounds like a solid theory... I guess we'll find out in a couple months.

 

[Earth]

I thought about this as well and my final conclusion was that we haven't seen converibles race with their top down due to safety concerns

As you mentioned it's very possible to do it but that's the only reason I could think of as why to we haven't seen it yet.

 

[webber555]

I thought about this as well and my final conclusion was that we haven't seen converibles race with their top down due to safety concerns

As you mentioned it's very possible to do it but that's the only reason I could think of as why to we haven't seen it yet.

Australia had (has?) a series of MG-F races with the tops down, though they had roll bars fitted.

A few years ago the celebrity races at the Australian GP in Melbourne were run in BMW Z3's and then Z4's I think as well.

 

[Beerz]

This occurred to me today watching one of the recent videos.

If every car now has a full interior, and that interior is always present in races (now that the windows are actually clear)... this should mean that we'll be able to drive convertibles with the top down in a 16-car race. From a rendering standpoint, it no longer makes any difference, like it did on GT4.. the number of polys would remain the same, or actually go down, since the roof isn't being rendered.

Sounds like a solid theory... I guess we'll find out in a couple months.

Actually, showing the top down during a race is heavier on the polygon count, since the roof has far less polygons than the new and totally modelled car interior, driver included.

And since PD has always had safety warnings on the GT series, it isn't very plausible that you'd have races with the top down, unless they fit it with the rollcage (actually, we'd have to buy it to race with a convertible, sounds more realistic that way).

 

[namregzepol]

I think it depends on the graphical engine. A optimized one should, probably, bypass not viewed polygons. So it's the same number of polygons by design but a smaller number to render.

 

[Earth]

Beerzgood, I think the entire interior is visible, even with a hardtop car. In GTHD you can see the entire inside, guages, the backseat, everything from the 3rd person view. And if you look behind you from the 3rd person view you can see the driver, everything. Everything is there, I think the PS3 can handle it.

But I just can't imagine 16 convertible corvettes racing in GT5, it would look like something out of cruising USA.

I'm waiting to see something like this in GT5.

As you can see there is a rollover bar so PD has no excuse to claim this vehicle is unsafe to drive as is in racing conditions. It is no more unsafe than any openwheel car or opencockpit prototype

 

[Beerz]

I agree (while drooling over the F50, which I pray everyday will be on the game) that the interior is visible, but as far as polygon count, it's always lower with the roof on, because the interior is never fully visible as if it was down.

However, I believe the PS3 could handle a 16 convertible cars race, as it would never show all 16 cars close up at once. Still, I think it'll only happen if there's some security device installed, never with stock cars (during races of course).

 

[inferno]

Well first of all, lets not forget that a convirtable top would crumple in the enevnt of a rollover anyway. to top up or down it really dosnt matter as far as safety, and most convirtibles have BETTER aerodynamics with the top down than with it up. so there really is no logical reason to race with the top up. That said, most convertables have built in roll hoops. the only one i can think of that dosnt is the miata.

from a hardware standpoint.. well, we'll see.

 

[Beerz]

Actually, some of the recent cars have 'pop-up' rollbars, than spring out in case the vehicle tilts to a certain angle.

And with the latest technology manufacturers are emplying on their convertibles, the windshield frame is at least as resistant to rollover as the same model with roof, since it is highly reinforced (hence convertibles being heavier than the standard model).

Speaking of that, I wonder if the rollcage will be visible on the car's interior when applied on tuning? That would be great.

 

[Patrik]

I think the PS3 can handle it, but if it can't I don't think it's a big deal

 

[spawn9999999]

I agree (while drooling over the F50, which I pray everyday will be on the game) that the interior is visible, but as far as polygon count, it's always lower with the roof on, because the interior is never fully visible as if it was down.

Beerzgood, you obviously don't understand. In GT5, the FULL INTERIOR of EVERY CAR IN THE GAME is modeled. That is how the new cockpit view is possible. Even though the car has a roof, the ENTIRE INTERIOR is rendered. It doesn't matter if the roof obscures the view of the interior, the entire interior is still be rendered. So theoretically, a convertible would have less polygons because it has no roof. The hard top car is having the entire body (including the roof) and the interior rendered, while the convertible is having the body (BUT NOT THE ROOF) and the interior rendered, so the convertible will have a lower poly count.

Anyway, I think that GT5 could have 16 convertibles on the track at once, but I also believe that the safety issues could be a concern. We will have to see what PD does.

 

[Beerz]

I'm not convinced that's how it works.

Going by that, while the camera is focusing on one car, the processor is fully rendering all the other 15 cars, even if they're on the other side of the track?...

And has already been said the there were slowdowns when all 16 cars were packed. Which means the more is visible, the more is being rendered. The less is visible, the less is being rendered.
Therefore, if I'm only seeing the interior partially, less polygons to render as the roof has way less of them lil' bastards.

This is just logical thinking, I might be way off.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I don't see how safety should have anything to do with it. A convertable is not safer to drive fast with the roof up or down. It's not a roll over bar. Besides it's a game not real and I would like to race with the top down.

 

[Beerz]

Have you ever read PD's safety warnings on the GT series?

They are concerned with that, even if you're not (after all, it IS a game). Just to say that there's a reason why they didn't get convertibles with the roof down racing until now, and it has nothing to do with the polygon count. 6 race cars with a zillion sponsors and color schemes take up more processor than GT4's poorly rendered interior, that's for sure. But they race fully, even the ones with the driver sticking out.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Have you ever read PD's safety warnings on the GT series?

They are concerned with that, even if you're not (after all, it IS a game). Just to say that there's a reason why they didn't get convertibles with the roof down racing until now, and it has nothing to do with the polygon count. 6 race cars with a zillion sponsors and color schemes take up more processor than GT4's poorly rendered interior, that's for sure. But they race fully, even the ones with the driver sticking out.

Is this directed at me?

If so, PD's safety warnings don't seem to matter to PD. You can race with to top down in GT4 in the special conditions hall. I've done it loads of times in the Capri Rally.

 

[spawn9999999]

I'm not convinced that's how it works.

Going by that, while the camera is focusing on one car, the processor is fully rendering all the other 15 cars, even if they're on the other side of the track?...

And has already been said the there were slowdowns when all 16 cars were packed. Which means the more is visible, the more is being rendered. The less is visible, the less is being rendered.
Therefore, if I'm only seeing the interior partially, less polygons to render as the roof has way less of them lil' bastards.

This is just logical thinking, I might be way off.

You are right in the fact that the game only renders what is on the screen. But when a car shows up on screen, it is the full car being rendered. There is none of this "selective rendering" that you speak of. The game does not render certain parts of the car on the fly depending on what can be seen or not. The car models are one entity, when they are visible, every single part of them is being rendered. Trust me, it is just the way 3D computer graphics work. Ask anyone else who knows 3D modeling and they will tell you the same.

 

[Wolfe]

There is none of this "selective rendering" that you speak of. The game does not render certain parts of the car on the fly depending on what can be seen or not. The car models are one entity, when they are visible, every single part of them is being rendered. Trust me, it is just the way 3D computer graphics work. Ask anyone else who knows 3D modeling and they will tell you the same.

I guess you and the 3D modelling people you talk to have never heard of Z-buffering/culling.

 

[namregzepol]

I think that only the polygons you actually see are rendered. So, the more interiors you see at a time, the more render power you need.

Wolve, good mention that Z-buffering/culling. :-)

 

[spawn9999999]

Well, there you go, I get slapped in the face. Thanks for enlightening me, Wolfe. I had never heard of z-buffer/culling before. Do you think GT5 will utilize it?

 

[Wolfe]

Well, there you go, I get slapped in the face. Thanks for enlightening me, Wolfe. I had never heard of z-buffer/culling before. Do you think GT5 will utilize it?

I think almost everything utilizes it. It's too much of a waste of resources to process textures, lighting, special effects, etc. on an object or part of an object that ultimately can't be seen, especially with the detailed nature of high-end games today.

 

[spawn9999999]

Thanks for the insight, I'll be sure to have my facts straight before making a fool of myself next time.

 

[Wolfe]

+Rep for taking a hit and admitting you were mistaken. 👍 Not everyone would do so.

 

[RUI]

I cannot comment on the technical side of the question but these are my thoughts on it:

maybe it's possible with the 16 cars and Pd's only keeping it for a latter showing;
if not, remembering what happens with GT4's arcade races. I think we'll surelly get a chance of choosing top down and then get less opponents (in GT4 we got a 2 car race; maybe 6 cars in GT5?)

I can hardly imagine "safety" has anything to do with this; first we can race with a top down in GT4 and 2nd PD's only "worried" with RL driving not ingame...