pal versus ntsc versions of gt4: what are the differences?

[Jump_Ace]

I was asked by our moderator (Flat-Out) to test week 51 out, give some good laps adn post my results. I spent a lil bit of time here and I came up with these results, and if anyone else has any comments or findings on the differences they find between the PAL and NTSC go for it. So far I have tested the following and I will add to the list as needed:

WRS Week 51 Re-Start Your Engines
Nissan Fairlady-Z Race Car '02 @ El Capitan Reverse:
590hp, 1008kg @ 320 Top Speed
8 laps on NTSC: 1:29.669
11 laps on PAL: 1:29.812

My Findings: Well I started first on NTSC got a lil rhythm going and what not and got a time I thought was a good starting point if I was going to do the WRS that week a lap that felt smooth but I wasn't over-pushing the car and it was CLEAN.
I then went over to the PAL version and at first the car felt faster but then I realized it may be because the game appears slightly boxed/squished in on the sides, not anything to make me drive different at all, just looks a lil odd but the combo felt the same, I hit the same driving line, braking points etc. Although what I did find was that it took me a few more laps to get close to the NTSC time and even then I was still a couple tenths off.
My Conclusion: I would say in the end that the NTSC drivers have a slight edge over PAL drivers the car handles the same but I think there is a little extra under the hood in the NTSC car.

Hope this helps you guys out, laters!

jump_ace

 

[MisterWeary]

Thanks for taking the time to have a look Jerome, you're a good bloke 👍

 

[Jump_Ace]

Thx Colby!

 

[Small_Fryz]

then why is the databases dominated by us PAL guys.

I think we just have more skill


On a serious note, thanks for the time 👍

Hope you can compare some more combos in the future as well

 

[Tedehur]

Many thanks Jerome. *click*
I must add that I asked him if he could run a couple of laps on each game, so 2 or 3 would have been fine. I assume he liked it since he ran 19 laps in total.
And at the question where should I post the results ?, I had answered : in the results thread
But I find this new thread a good idea. We can keep it open to discuss any PAL / NTSC issue in the future.

 

[Iceman]

The way I see it the debate over which is faster, PAL or NTSC doesn't really mean anything as there's nothing you can do other than get the other version. It's just something that has to be dealt with. From my experiences and speaking with other racers who have bought both games it seems as if it is completely random which version gets the advantage and it all depends on the car, it doesnt seem to have anything to do with the track or tires etc. I think for a BC race it would be a good idea to make sure a large difference isn't there but for the most part, the faster driver will win 95% of the races, regardless of version. I think one reason we may not see an advantage in a PAL combo as well as an NTSC combo is simply because people chalk it up to the skill of holl01. So I guess my conclusion is if it's possible have someone with both version test the car before posting the race to determine an advantage.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I dont think their is much difference.

Fact is their are more faster PAL drivers than NTSC, but in saying that, NTSC is only Canada and USA. PAL is all of Europe, Australia/NZ.

I think the difference would be too small to make any difference.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Yeah, I too think the difference is so small. The cars handled the same, and it was a good combo, I wish I wasnt working so much that I could have done it But I do agree that Holl01 is just damn good, same with hOt6o4bOi, I honestly think they paid KY a few extra $$$ to have an underground version of the game that secretly has like 5% more horsepower in every car (although that means when I race against Curtis in Seattle Bobkart has that disc too...hhmmm...heheh), which is why I suck...lol. As for the BC6 I dont think its anything too drastic especially since its only a few cars and maybe those cars wont be used? Just a thought. It was fun testing the cars. Maybe someone else who has 2 versions could also test them and we can compare notes? Or even keep the thread going 👍

jump_ace

 

[Laurence5905]

Fact is their are more faster PAL drivers than NTSC, but in saying that, NTSC is only Canada and USA. PAL is all of Europe, Australia/NZ.

I know Brazil uses NTSC... I had assumed that meant all of South America used it as well, but I could be wrong there... Still, it's the largest country in South America, so that's a big chunk of people, even if the rest of the continent doesn't use it.

And I'm pretty sure NTSC is also used in Mexico, which would mean the entire North American continent is using it...

So, it's not quite as small a portion of the world as you might think, although I'm pretty sure the portion of the world using PAL is larger. (Doesn't it include Asia, in additon to Europe, Australia, and New Zealand?)

 

[Casio]

So, it's not quite as small a portion of the world as you might think, although I'm pretty sure the portion of the world using PAL is larger. (Doesn't it include Asia, in additon to Europe, Australia, and New Zealand?)

I thought Japan and China were NTSC (I've seen NTSC-J around here somwhere), so that's a pretty large chunk of asia gone. Australia and Zew Zealand only amount to about 25 million, so they're not really important to the total either.

 

[Laurence5905]

I thought Japan and China were NTSC (I've seen NTSC-J around here somwhere), so that's a pretty large chunk of asia gone. Australia and Zew Zealand only amount to about 25 million, so they're not really important to the total either.

Right -- NTSC-J. I forgot about that... It's a Japanese version of the NTSC standard, but I think it's generally compatible with "American" NTSC. I wonder if China uses it... Traditionally they haven't been exactly "friends" with the Japanese... But who knows...

 

[Tyre King]

Just got this off a site:

"If you're in North America, Japan, Korea, the Philippines and parts of South America, you use NTSC. Most other areas of the world use PAL or SECAM. Brazil uses PAL-M. Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay use PAL-N. The rest of the world uses mainly PAL."

Amazing what Google can pull up!

And this....
Alphabetically....................

"Abu Dhabi PAL-Region 2, Afghanistan PAL-Region 2, Albania PAL-Region 2, Algeria PAL-Region 2, American Samoa NTSC-Region 1, Andorra SECAM/PAL-Region 2, Angola PAL-Region 2, Antigua NTSC-Region 1, Antilles NTSC-Region 1, Argentina PAL-Region 2, Aruba NTSC- Region 1,Ascension Island PAL-Region 2,Australia PAL-Region 2,Austria PAL-Region 2,Azerbaijan SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Azores (Portugal) PAL-Region 2,Bahamas NTSC-Region 1,Bahrain PAL-Region 2,Bangladesh PAL-Region 2,Barbados NTSC-Region 1,Barbuda NTSC-Region 1,Belarus SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Belgium PAL-Region 2,Belize NTSC-Region 1,Benin SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Bermuda NTSC-Region 1,Bolivia NTSC-Region 1,Bosnia Herzegovina PAL-Region 2,Botswana PAL-Region 2,Brazil PAL-Region 2,British Virgin Islands NTSC-Region 1,Brunei PAL-Region 2,Bulgaria SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Burma NTSC-Region 1,Burundi SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Cambodia (Kampuchea) SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Cameroon PAL-Region 2,Canada NTSC-Region 1,Canary Is PAL-Region 2,Central African Republic SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Chad SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Chile NTSC-Region 1,
China PAL-Region 2,Christmas Island PAL-Region 2,Colombia NTSC-Region 1,Cook Island PAL-Region 2,Congo SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Corsica SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Costa Rica NTSC-Region 1,Croatia PAL-Region 2,Cuba NTSC-Region 1,Curacao NTSC-Region 1,Cyprus PAL-Region 2,Czechsolvakia PAL-Region 2,Denmark PAL-Region 2,Diego Garcia NTSC-Region 1,Dominica NTSC-Region 1,Dominican Republic NTSC-Region 1,Dubai PAL-Region 2,Easter Island PAL-Region 2,Ecuador NTSC-Region 1,Egypt SECAM/PAL-Region 2,El Salvador NTSC-Region 1,Eritrea PAL-Region 2,Estonia SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Ethiopia PAL-Region 2,Falkland Islands PAL-Region 2,Faroe Islands (DK) PAL- Region 2,Fiji NTSC-Region 1,Finland PAL-Region 2,France SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Gabon SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Gambia PAL-Region 2,Gaza & West Bank PAL-Region 2,Georgia SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Germany PAL-Region 2,Ghana PAL-Region 2,Gibraltar PAL-Region 2,Greece PAL-Region 2,Greenland PAL-Region 2,Grenada NTSC-Region 1,Guam NTSC-Region 1,Guatemala NTSC-Region 1,Guinea PAL-Region 2,Guinea-Bissau PAL-Region 2,Guyana NTSC-Region 1,Guyana (French) SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Haiti NTSC-Region 1,Honduras NTSC-Region 1,Hong Kong PAL-Region 2,Hungary PAL-Region 2,Iceland PAL-Region 2,India PAL-Region 2,Indonesia PAL-Region 2,Iran SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Iraq SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Ireland PAL-Region 2,Israel PAL-Region 2,Italy PAL-Region 2,Ivory Coast SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Jamaica NTSC-Region 1,Japan NTSC-Region 1,Jordan PAL-Region 2,Kenya PAL-Region 2,Korea NTSC-Region 1,Lebanon PAL-Region 2,Lesotho PAL-Region 2,Liberia PAL-Region 2,Libya SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Liechtenstein PAL-Region 2,Lithuania SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Luxembourg PAL-Region 2,Macao PAL-Region 2,Macedonia PAL-Region 2,Madeira PAL-Region 2,Madagascar SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Malawi PAL-Region 2,Malaysia PAL-Region 2,Maldives PAL-Region 2,Mali SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Malta PAL-Region 2,Martinique SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Mauritius SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Mexico NTSC-Region 1,Micronesia NTSC-Region 1,Montserrat NTSC-Region 1,Monaco SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Montenegro PAL- Region 2,Morocco SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Mozambique PAL-Region 2,Myanmar NTSC-Region 1,Namibia PAL-Region 2,Nepal PAL-Region 2,Netherlands PAL-Region 2,New Zealand PAL-Region 2,Nicaragua NTSC-region 1,Niger SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Nigeria PAL-Region 2,Norfolk Island PAL-Region 2,North Korea SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Norway PAL-Region 2,Okinawa NTSC-Region 1,Pakistan PAL-Region 2,Palau NTSC-Region 1,Panama NTSC-Region 1,Papua New Guinea ,PAL-Region 2,Paraguay PAL-Region 2,Peru NTSC-Region 1,Philipines NTSC-Region 1,Poland PAL-Region 2,Portugal PAL-Region 2,Puerto Rico NTSC-Region 1,Qatar PAL-Region 2,Romania PAL-Region 2,Russia SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Rwanda SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Samoa NTSC-Region 1,Sardinia PAL-Region 2,Saudi Arabia SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Senegal SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Serbia SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Seychelles PAL-Region 2,Sierra Leone PAL-Region 2,Singapore PAL-Region 2,South Africa PAL-Region 2,South Korea NTSC-Region 1,Spain PAL-Region 2,Sri Lanka PAL-Region 2,St. Kits & Nevis NTSC-Region 1,St. Lucia NTSC-Region 1,St. Vincent NTSC-Region 1,Sudan PAL-Region 2,Surinam NTSC-Region 1,Swaziland PAL-Region 2,Sweden PAL-Region 2,Switzerland PAL-Region 2,Syria PAL-Region 2,Tahiti SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Taiwan NTSC-Region 1,Thailand PAL-Region 2,Trinidad & Tobago NTSC-Region 1,Tunisia SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Turkey PAL-Region 2,Uganda PAL-Region 2,Ukraine SECAM/PAL-Region 2,United Arab Emirates PAL-Region 2,United Kingdom PAL-Region 2,Uruguay PAL-Region 2,USA NTSC-Region 1,Vanuatu PAL-Region 2,Venezuela NTSC-Region 1,Vietnam NTSC-Region 1,Virgin Islands NTSC-Region 1,Yugoslavia PAL-Region 2,Zaire SECAM/PAL-Region 2,Zambia PAL-Region 2,Zimbabwe PAL-Region 2,Zanzibar PAL-Region 2,Zimbambwe PAL-Region 2"

Nuff said!
Neil

 

[Laurence5905]

Just got this off a site:

"If you're in North America, Japan, Korea, the Philippines and parts of South America, you use NTSC. Most other areas of the world use PAL or SECAM. Brazil uses PAL-M. Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay use PAL-N. The rest of the world uses mainly PAL."

Amazing what Google can pull up!

But I've downloaded GT4 replays from folks in Brazil, and they worked fine on my NTSC machine... So I figured they were using NTSC in Brazil.

 

[fasj6418]

But I've downloaded GT4 replays from folks in Brazil, and they worked fine on my NTSC machine... So I figured they were using NTSC in Brazil.
[/FONT]

yeap, we use NTSC for videogames. ever since i had a mega drive. i don´t know where that site came up with the PAL-M thing... i can only see if its about the "trinorma" which would be systems compatible with all formats.

i always had trouble running colin mcrae games here, because my TV is NTSC and the game is PAL... so, a lot of sluggish action, almost umplayable... and i´m also pretty sure the rest of south america is NTSC, because i´ve been in paraguay to buy eletronics, and it is mostly NTSC...

a friend of mine went to england and got a PS2 there... turns out, he got back home and couldn´t play because his TV was NTSC... poor guy...

anyway, maybe the google site tried to say something like "Brazil also uses PAL as a second option..."

 

[holl01]

well, week 51 was the only time i ever noticed a difference in the machines of PAL and NTSC, but this wasnt a difference really, the cars were completely different, ntsc had less hp that PAL at default setup, so obviously there will be a difference when trying to match up the hp exactly by using the quick tune feature. So in concluding, week 51 isnt one of those ntsc/PAL differences in terms of racing physics, its only a difference in the car itself

 

[KLR142]

Maybe someone else who has 2 versions could also test them and we can compare notes? Or even keep the thread going 👍

jump_ace

I supposedly have a modded PS2... But i don't have any games, maybe you should bring your PAL version over so I can see what it's like?

 

[Dr_Watson]

I supposedly have a modded PS2... But i don't have any games, maybe you should bring your PAL version over so I can see what it's like?

the refresh rate on PAL is slower and the colors are different.
so you get really funky (mostly greenish) colors and an unstable picture.
(if your TV is old enough it will just scroll up as the vertical hold is totally whack)
there are two ways to fix a different format game is to patch the cd image and run a burned copy.
(I had to do that for Colin mcrae on the psx, worked fine. dunno about fixes for ps2 games, not tried to play an out of market. )
or get a video converter box. they make ones that convert from all formats to VGA/RGB which is nice... but expensive.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Cant some TV's run both formats?

 

[Casio]

Cant some TV's run both formats?

I thought most do now.

I'm pretty sure mine does.

My VCR says 'PAL/PAL60/NTSC on the front. Does that do anything? Are you guys having trouble viewing PAL on NTSC and vice versa directly connecting to the TV or going through the VCR?

 

[Laurence5905]

I thought most do now.

I'm pretty sure mine does.

My VCR says 'PAL/PAL60/NTSC on the front. Does that do anything? Are you guys having trouble viewing PAL on NTSC and vice versa directly connecting to the TV or going through the VCR?

The problem I have with PAL is not that my TV can't deal with it -- it can. (It automatically up-converts every video signal into 1920x1080 progressive-scan. Samsung HL-R5078W.) The problem is that the PS2 won't even recognize PAL replay files at all... GT4 just totally ignores them -- they don't show up in the replay theater or anywhere inside GT4, only in the PS2 Browser.

 

[Small_Fryz]

You need a cracked PS2 and a PAL GT4 disc, then you should have no trouble.

 

[Dr_Watson]

The problem I have with PAL is not that my TV can't deal with it -- it can. (It automatically up-converts every video signal into 1920x1080 progressive-scan. Samsung HL-R5078W.) The problem is that the PS2 won't even recognize PAL replay files at all... GT4 just totally ignores them -- they don't show up in the replay theater or anywhere inside GT4, only in the PS2 Browser.

thats because GT4's replay files are like the demo files quake (and alike) save. It isn't a video file of the race, its control input, race data, etc, that GT4 will need to re-render a 1:1 copy of the race. If its in the wrong format, all the timing is off (because i suspect GT4 links the timing (game ticks) to the frame rate)
My theory comes from the fact that i've hacked a PAL replay file into an NTSC one, and it plays in replay theatre just fine... but the car will drive "ahead" of the graphics... so it smashes into walls and is basically broken.
The only way to *fix* that, would be to reverse engineer GT4's compression/encryption, and make a patcher that would add/remove timing information.
AKA - too much work.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Would you be able to make a program that would be able to tell the name of replays and such while they are on your computer?

 

[Casio]

Would you be able to make a program that would be able to tell the name of replays and such while they are on your computer?

I'd ****ing pay for that.

 

[Dr_Watson]

Would you be able to make a program that would be able to tell the name of replays and such while they are on your computer?

from what i could tell from my tinkering previously. the name of the file you see on the ps2 memory manager: "GT4 Ghost Replay 33" or whatever, can be extracted... and yes, i suppose i could write a program that would rename max files according to that information.
But from what I could tell, the Name you give it in replay theatre, is stored in the icon image.
If that is the case, its impossible to pull the GT-name out of the replay file, since its just pixel data in the replay theater icon.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Yeah, its too heavily encrypted 👎

Yet another reason to race PC sims

 

[Dr_Watson]

not even sure why they did it... hacking save files on a pc was never a very popular way to make cheats for GT1-3 (although it was fun making "hack-hybrids"; made some interesting flying cars in gt2 ) ; Gameshark devices were much more popular, and those can operate at Run-time, so they work regardless of the encryption schemes applied to memory card saves.

 

[Small_Fryz]

indeed . They could at least make the replay say the name you saved it as. If they did that we wouldnt (I wouldnt) even care how encrypted they are.

 

[Tedehur]

from what i could tell from my tinkering previously. the name of the file you see on the ps2 memory manager: "GT4 Ghost Replay 33" or whatever, can be extracted... and yes, i suppose i could write a program that would rename max files according to that information.
But from what I could tell, the Name you give it in replay theatre, is stored in the icon image.
If that is the case, its impossible to pull the GT-name out of the replay file, since its just pixel data in the replay theater icon.

The file name (like Ghost Replay [33]) is stored by the MaxDrive itself and is not encrypted. So it'd be pretty easy to look for it and rename the file. But that wouldn't help much IMO.
The name you're giving in the replay manager (like WRS 55) is encrypted in the replay itself and nobody found a way yet to decrypt it.
Icon files are something else, I don't think there's any information other than the pic itself in it.

 

[Dr_Watson]

The file name (like Ghost Replay [33]) is stored by the MaxDrive itself and is not encrypted. So it'd be pretty easy to look for it and rename the file. But that wouldn't help much IMO.
The name you're giving in the replay manager (like WRS 55) is encrypted in the replay itself and nobody found a way yet to decrypt it.
Icon files are something else, I don't think there's any information other than the pic itself in it.

its pretty unlikely that the data shown in the replay theater table of contents is saved in the replay data. since, if you pull the replay data out of a max file, and then insert data from a different file. the replay theater will still show the name and time from the original file. but when played, it will show the *new* replay.