Parenting

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JohnBM01

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JMarine25
I am not a father or a husband. I don't even have a girlfriend. So I wouldn't have any experience with this topic, in which I am devoting to parenting. If you don't raise children right, they can't be properly molded to being leaders in life. They might even get into trouble occasionally with the law. They'll acquire or contract STDs. They might even end up injured or even dead. When we are young, many of us don't really realize that parents are out there looking out for our best interests. Maybe we learn later on in life that while our parents may fuss or get on us constantly, that it's all out of love. That's the way I learned with my mother. My mother and I are best friends basically. I've been fussed at and frowned upon in the past, but parenting isn't easy. What do you think? What are your opinions about parenting? Reply away.
 
Every parent does things different ways. There is no way to do it perfectly, as every human is different from the other. Nothing will ever work 100% of the time, therefore there can't be a formula for it. The only way to determine whether or not the parenting was a success or not is to look at the end product.
 
Bad parenting will not neccessarily lead to children running rampant, breaking laws, and contracting STDs. Of course the way that your parents raise you will have a huge impact on your life, but just because you have parents who did a ****ty job doesn't mean that you're going to lead a horrible life because of it.
 
I think it is interesting that for driving a car you need a licence, but for parenting you don't. I wonder what can do more damage - bad driving or bad parenting?

Then again I suppose your auto-granted licence to parent can be revoked, so to speak.
 
Well, ive found over the years that parents that let their children run around w/ no rules to abide by, have had less than stellar records in life. Most have already had children and they still happen to be children. Which, is completely stupid. Drinking, drugs, sex, imo, all comes from parents that really aren't trying to help their children succeed in life. That or the parents are setting the bad example by doing the things the children want to emulate.

IMO, parents should go back to being firm w/ their children. Screw up, get a beating. Worked for me. And ive seen it work for countless others.

Parents need to step and become role models. Also, they need to teach their children about the consiquences of doing things. It all comes down to the parents just caring about their children, which im finding a less and less amount of these days. But, i think alot of it comes from the fact that 14-18 yr old women keep having children on a daily basis. But, children having children is a topic all on its own.
James-
 
Arwin
I think it is interesting that for driving a car you need a licence, but for parenting you don't. I wonder what can do more damage - bad driving or bad parenting?

Me too. When my son was born I had couldn't help noticing a lot of the other new parents around the maternity ward. Of course I didn't know any of them but it seemed to me they were not equipped to deal with what was coming for them, on any level, financially or emotionally.

I guess I assumed that all new parents consciously decided to have a child, planned for it, had hopes and dreams for their child's future; sadly, it's not the case in many "families". I remember the nurse telling my wife and I as we were leaving that it was a treat to deliver a baby for a couple who actually loved eachother, were married, and not on drugs.

I believe if you go into parenting with some kind of plan and the resources to carry it out, not the least of which being an abundance of love for your child, the child will grow up healthy and well adjusted, eventually.

I have an 18 month old son and I worry constantly if I'm doing the right things, if any decision I make could be detrimental to him in any way. And this is the easy part. When he's an adolscent I'm certain to develop an ulcer over it all.

My son's pediatrician put it well when he said, to put my wife and I at ease one day when our son was only a couple weeks old and we had no idea what we were doing: "No child ever died because his parents loved him too much."
 
My friend has a 1 1/2 year old and I've never really "baby sat" for him but it is damn hard, especially for the major that we are in! I've slowly aquired "parenting skills" being around them and their child but I think I'd be terrified to have a kid. There's a lot involve and as stupid as it sounds t.v. shows like Listen up and Still standing made them worse because they show situations I'd probably screw up in.

I'd be so worried of what I'm teaching the kid or what they are learning that's bad from me. I suppose I'm one of the smart ones that actually know I shouldn't have kids. On the other hand there are a lot of priceless memories a child brings to ones life that almost makes everything else unimportant.
 
milefile
Me too. When my son was born I had couldn't help noticing a lot of the other new parents around the maternity ward. Of course I didn't know any of them but it seemed to me they were not equipped to deal with what was coming for them, on any level, financially or emotionally.

I guess I assumed that all new parents consciously decided to have a child, planned for it, had hopes and dreams for their child's future; sadly, it's not the case in many "families". I remember the nurse telling my wife and I as we were leaving that it was a treat to deliver a baby for a couple who actually loved eachother, were married, and not on drugs.

I believe if you go into parenting with some kind of plan and the resources to carry it out, not the least of which being an abundance of love for your child, the child will grow up healthy and well adjusted, eventually.

I have an 18 month old son and I worry constantly if I'm doing the right things, if any decision I make could be detrimental to him in any way. And this is the easy part. When he's an adolscent I'm certain to develop an ulcer over it all.

My son's pediatrician put it well when he said, to put my wife and I at ease one day when our son was only a couple weeks old and we had no idea what we were doing: "No child ever died because his parents loved him too much."


If this forum were an actual place and we were all standing around, I'd be nodding my head in agreement several times right now. Nicely said.

I believe that your children are the only true legacy you leave behind. Assets and achievements all fade in time, but the lives you touch in your capacity as a caretaker, rolemodel, security blanket and best friend are truly forever. It is my deepest and most feverent hope that my children grow to be more than myself in every way and that I can do the right thing at the right time to help make that happen.

That said, I am mortified that I accidently taught my 2 year old to say the F-word last week. :guilty:


M
 
///M-Spec
If this forum were an actual place and we were all standing around, I'd be nodding my head in agreement several times right now. Nicely said.

I believe that your children are the only true legacy you leave behind. Assets and achievements all fade in time, but the lives you touch in your capacity as a caretaker, rolemodel, security blanket and best friend are truly forever. It is my deepest and most feverent hope that my children grow to be more than myself in every way and that I can do the right thing at the right time to help make that happen.

That said, I am mortified that I accidently taught my 2 year old to say the F-word last week. :guilty:


M

Thats when you just say to the people around you "Oh, he's trying to pronounce frog, he has a major probablem pronouncing his Gs"
 
milefile
it seemed to me they were not equipped to deal with what was coming for them, on any level, financially or emotionally.

I am stupified (: how little thought people put into having children. Before we had our son, we over-analyzed everything. Can we afford this? Should we buy that? We're not rich, but we do just fine, and you still need to think about how your decisions now will affect you in a few months/years. I would like a new vehicle but we just bought a new house last year and I would like our car paid off first. Things like that.

We also just set up a college fund for him. The sad part is even though we are putting $100 a month into it, by the time he is in college, it'll pay for about 2 years of school. The plus side is if he doesn't go to school, I get a new vehicle in 18 years. :sly:
 
So in 2016 one of my presidential campaigns should be licensing for parental practice? Sounds good to me!

Also on that topic, how do you feel about paying young teens to have a vasectomy? Give them $500 and a snip. Cuts down on the population having to deal with all these extra kids in the world. Though you might see increased instances of rape, due to the guys not fearing fatherhood, and in addition to that they will be increased STD. So I guess it's a toss up.

And while we're on the topic of licensing, how about mandatory license renewal every two years? Driver, hunting, parental, marriage ... whatever there is a license for, it has to be renewed based on whatever revised laws have been created. The greatest example is drivers' licenses. Keeps the old blind people off the road (: It would also employ more people to give the stupid tests! (:
 
milefile
I guess I assumed that all new parents consciously decided to have a child, planned for it, had hopes and dreams for their child's future; sadly, it's not the case in many "families". I remember the nurse telling my wife and I as we were leaving that it was a treat to deliver a baby for a couple who actually loved eachother, were married, and not on drugs.

:lol: Sorry, but that gave me a picture of how harsh life can be sometimes, found it quite humorous.

I believe if you go into parenting with some kind of plan and the resources to carry it out, not the least of which being an abundance of love for your child, the child will grow up healthy and well adjusted, eventually.

I have an 18 month old son and I worry constantly if I'm doing the right things, if any decision I make could be detrimental to him in any way. And this is the easy part. When he's an adolscent I'm certain to develop an ulcer over it all.

I haven't been near the situation to have kids so please take my words with care and context from where I stand. From what I understand, taking responsibility is good but it's a fine line between that and putting the blame on you for how your child comes out to be. And further: Your child is not a blank paper you are about to write as parents, your child is (even before birth) a single individual with his/her personal responses and actions to what happens in it's development. You can affect some things and there are other sides of your child that you can never affect.

Whatever you do, milefile, don't blame yourself for the possibility that anything should go wrong, I think that thinking similar to what you have talked about can put too much pressure on anyone in parenting. I say this beacause as I've seen you so far you are serious and reflecting about rights an wrongs in many situations in life.

Summary: See parenting as a guidance of a pre-personalised child before birth. Do your best and remember that good is enough. Don't blame yourself for eventual serious problems your child will occur. It depends on situations you, as parents, seldom can affect.


My son's pediatrician put it well when he said, to put my wife and I at ease one day when our son was only a couple weeks old and we had no idea what we were doing: "No child ever died because his parents loved him too much."

The Simpsons: Bart was hospitalised and Marge asked DR. Hibbert: Can I smother him now? And DR Hibbert replied No, he's not recovered enough yet

Love is in, as I see it one of a way to express your own dependance to other individuals. Yes, there is true love (I belive it is) But exctracting what is love from your own ego is a task of a lifetime. Don't assume that what you think of as "love" is separated from your own needs..

*My thoughts on this*
 
GTJugend
:lol: Sorry, but that gave me a picture of how harsh life can be sometimes, found it quite humorous.



I haven't been near the situation to have kids so please take my words with care and context from where I stand. From what I understand, taking responsibility is good but it's a fine line between that and putting the blame on you for how your child comes out to be. And further: Your child is not a blank paper you are about to write as parents, your child is (even before birth) a single individual with his/her personal responses and actions to what happens in it's development. You can affect some things and there are other sides of your child that you can never affect.

Whatever you do, milefile, don't blame yourself for the possibility that anything should go wrong, I think that thinking similar to what you have talked about can put too much pressure on anyone in parenting. I say this beacause as I've seen you so far you are serious and reflecting about rights an wrongs in many situations in life.

Summary: See parenting as a guidance of a pre-personalised child before birth. Do your best and remember that good is enough. Don't blame yourself for eventual serious problems your child will occur. It depends on situations you, as parents, seldom can affect.




The Simpsons: Bart was hospitalised and Marge asked DR. Hibbert: Can I smother him now? And DR Hibbert replied No, he's not recovered enough yet

Love is in, as I see it one of a way to express your own dependance to other individuals. Yes, there is true love (I belive it is) But exctracting what is love from your own ego is a task of a lifetime. Don't assume that what you think of as "love" is separated from your own needs..

*My thoughts on this*

Please reply and express your opinions too.

I plan on responding to this when I have the time and energy it deserves. Both are in short supply today.
 
I noticed this yesterday, but didn't have time to do anything with it then. This is part of the floorplan for a new elementary school that I am working on the electrical layout for. I think they should change the name from "104 - Time out" to "104 - This is where we put you and do absolutely nothing to you except tell your parents what you did and then tell you not to be a tattle-tale." Too bad that wouldn't fit in the room.

What happened to the days when teachers could spank their students? If they wouldn't have stopped doing that, we might have kids who actually respect their teachers. If my son smarts off to a teacher and nothing is done about it, I am going to be a little upset.
 
My parents gave my public school teachers permission to hit me. They never did, but they threatened me with it... "You know your dad says it's okay for me smack you..." I guess it worked as a deterent mostly because it was pretty embarassing being the only kid to whom the teachers said such a thing. In fifth grade they sent me to Catholic school. I got plenty of whacks there, and my parents didn't have to give permissin 👍
 
I myself never learnt anything from anyone through getting slapped. Actually, those few times it did happen (with my parents or from some bully kid) it usually felt like I was the one who won because the other didn't have anything better to offer in the way of an argument than to hit me, which never impressed me (figuratively anyway ;) ).

As far as children go, there is nothing they hate more than being ignored or excluded. Reward them with attention when they do something good, simply ignore them or punish them by sending them to the hall when they do something bad. I think this will usually work, although I'm sure some kids will need a gentle nudge to end up in the hall.

I think the only kids who are impressed by violence are the once who are violent themselves. I had my share of bullying in school, and that invariably ended those two times that I knocked one of the bullies down.

But in parent-child relations, I highly doubt its use. But I guess I had some good examples, for instance one of my teachers was real good at handling bullies, by just popping his eyes out when he was angry and being a person you're not comfortable with being angry with you because he's just a great guy. That worked with the most troublesome kids, and some really troublesome kids ended up at my school because it had a good reputation in general and with difficult kids in particular.
 
GTJugend
I haven't been near the situation to have kids so please take my words with care and context from where I stand. From what I understand, taking responsibility is good but it's a fine line between that and putting the blame on you for how your child comes out to be.
There is certainly a line. I have no idea where it is. If I did there would be no worries. Every individual human is distinctly definable as "not any other person", and yet we are somehow inexorably connected to our parents, for better or for worse. For my part I plan on it being for the better. As my son grows he will begin to think for himself. He will question me, and all authority. He will rebel and defy. I expect it. I know it is coming. This is one big difference between my wife and I. I believe that somehow the way I guide him through his time leading up to that long transition to adulthood, called childhood, can give him a chance to make the inevitable emotional individuation and still know that I love him precisely because he necessarily must defy, perhaps even betray, me. Later in life he will realize and appreciate it.

Just recently I was thinking along these lines about my dad. We went to church every Sunday growing up. We hated it. We wanted to play, or sleep, or watch cartoons. But he persisted. He believed we should be brought up that way and he was detemined to see to it. My mom liked going to church about as muh as we did, and she stopped. But my dad dragged his ass out of bed every Sunday and dragged us to church, even without the support of his wife. It was mostly futile. But he persisted in what he thought was right, and I admire it. And that is one of the only good things I have to say about him.

Your child is not a blank paper you are about to write as parents, your child is (even before birth) a single individual with his/her personal responses and actions to what happens in it's development. You can affect some things and there are other sides of your child that you can never affect.
I agree. It's an immeasurably complicated interaction of innate pedisposition and socialization, which starts at home, or should. I undersand the limitations and the opportunities involved.

Love is in, as I see it one of a way to express your own dependance to other individuals. Yes, there is true love (I belive it is) But exctracting what is love from your own ego is a task of a lifetime. Don't assume that what you think of as "love" is separated from your own needs..
Only I know what my love is. The love for one's child is more inexplicable than any other I've experienced. It is not romantic. It is not plutonic. It is not dependent. It just is. I can't say anymore about it. I just live it every day.

You are in Sweden, right? I was talking to the COO of my company the other day about his kids. He is from Denmark. He was telling me about his 16 year old daughter, who lives on her own already. I say "already" because in the US that's considered too early by most people. I lived with my parents until I was 20. I guess that would be considered too long in Europe, particularly in Scandinavia, from what I understand. I also have a friend in Sweden who's told me other things about family and marriage there. It's very different from America and I see it in your thoughts.
 
Agree with what you say above, just thought I'd mention that. ;) A child becomes for a large part what his parents make him - it's not that you're the sole influence, but during some of the most impressionable years you're by far the biggest.

Part of raising them is letting them stand on their own two feet as much as possible and as early as possible (don't force a 6 months old toddler into running a marathon, if you know what I mean) and not being afraid to have them look at other people for examples - so long as you teach them the right basic values, they will recognise good and bad things in others, and there's a good chance they'll get better at this than you yourself are as kids are apt learners.

milefile
He was telling me about his 16 year old daughter, who lives on her own already. I say "already" because in the US that's considered too early by most people. I lived with my parents until I was 20. I guess that would be considered too long in Europe, particularly in Scandinavia, from what I understand. I also have a friend in Sweden who's told me other things about family and marriage there. It's very different from America and I see it in your thoughts.

I think for most European countries, the normal age where people go live on their own averages to 20 as well. Moving out is mostly linked to going to school (all kinds of) and since for some the 'professional' schools start at 16, if these aren't in the neighbourhood, some kids will move out at that age. But it doesn't happen a lot and I don't think there's such a big difference between the U.S. and Europe in this respect.

I've lived in Sweden for a year 9 years ago, and in the more populated regions people wouldn't move out of their parents house very soon at all as houses are expensive, so people will often only move out if their parents are rich, or when they go live with their boyfriends.

One big difference especially between the Netherlands and the U.S. however is the age at which they have children. The U.S. stands at 19 I think (quite young if you ask me, especially for an average), whereas the Netherlands has one of the highest averages in the world, at over 30. Many will have had schooling and a good start of a career before starting with children, which has both advantages (security, stability) and disadvantages (it gets harder to get pregnant at later age).
 
milefile
There is certainly a line. I have no idea where it is. If I did there would be no worries. Every individual human is distinctly definable as "not any other person", and yet we are somehow inexorably connected to our parents, for better or for worse. For my part I plan on it being for the better. As my son grows he will begin to think for himself. He will question me, and all authority. He will rebel and defy. I expect it. I know it is coming. This is one big difference between my wife and I. I believe that somehow the way I guide him through his time leading up to that long transition to adulthood, called childhood, can give him a chance to make the inevitable emotional individuation and still know that I love him precisely because he necessarily must defy, perhaps even betray, me. Later in life he will realize and appreciate it.


Can't argue much about that. Couldn't have thought it out better myself. I just hope it works out as good in real life as you want it to.

Only I know what my love is. The love for one's child is more inexplicable than any other I've experienced. It is not romantic. It is not plutonic. It is not dependent. It just is. I can't say anymore about it. I just live it every day.

Interesting. Hearing things like this is one of few things that makes me curious about eventually getting children if the opportunity comes one day.

What I expressed was a feeling of "too much love (love?)" caught from reading about your worries for your son. But I am aware that it could as well (or more likely?) be a projection of my own excperiens related to what happened in my childhood.

You are in Sweden, right? I was talking to the COO of my company the other day about his kids. He is from Denmark. He was telling me about his 16 year old daughter, who lives on her own already. I say "already" because in the US that's considered too early by most people. I lived with my parents until I was 20. I guess that would be considered too long in Europe, particularly in Scandinavia, from what I understand. I also have a friend in Sweden who's told me other things about family and marriage there. It's very different from America and I see it in your thoughts.

As Arwin said, moving away from home is common around the age of 20 here.

And clearly there is differences in our societies visions upon parenting, and it shows in what you believe is the truth about it. From what I understand the veiw on how much power parents generally should be allowed to have over their kids, in order to make them well adjusted adults, is that parents here interfere much less.

I'm not 100% at all about this since most of what I believe you Americans generally see as a good way to raise children is what I got from TV and movies.

My personal excperience on this makes me differ from the general view here though. In comparison to me most people living here see parents as more deciding on how they kids come out to be. I know this since this caused a quite heavy debate in class during the course of childhood development psychology. As the years go by I feel more and more like an alien in my family (despite the fact that our communication is pretty good), and that surely has it's impact.
 
Good words from many people so far. I do have to say that spanking or slapping is totally pointless, though in some cases there is nothing else to try. Even as a last resort it rarely works. My elder daughter (12) considered it the cost of doing business sometimes: "I want to do something that's not allowed; they've caught me and yelled at me before, so I'll get spanked this time - yeah, it's worth it." I don't think I've ever had to spank my younger daughter (8), though I've grabbed her hard to stop her from kicking or I've hauled her unceremoniously down the corridor if she refused to move.

We've tried very hard to parent consistently, but the two girls are just different people. The elder is sly, a manipulator who learns how to play the system, and who is fundamentally greedy. She does not instinctively consider other people at all, though she is learning to do so by conscious effort. Not to say she is evil, or even mean, just very self-centered. She is more of a loner. The younger is much more generous and agreeable, much more on-the surface and sensitive. Rather than bide her time and operate in secrecy, she will simply dig in and fight here and now. She prefers company and really doesn't like being alone.

We are not excessively social people - probably less so than many - and we try to have consistent values and parenting styles, which we do for the most part. Yet the two girls have developed in different ways, and developed their recognizable personalities from a young age: 2 or 3 years old, even.

We've strongly encouraged them to think for themselves and to question what they are told. Unfortunately, they've mostly applied that to us, but hey, it's practice for them. We try our best to explain our actions - heck, we try to explain everything we can, as a matter of course - not in the nature of a lesson but to get them exposed to critical thinking and to understand that there are patterns they can figure out. We've also encouraged them to investigate and shown them that learning is FUN and intersting in itself.

The best thing we've done to meet this goal is to read - not just with them, but in front of them, for our own pleasure. Thus they've learned that reading is not a chore but a reward in itself. Both of them were reading on their own before they went to kindergarten, the elder at a 2nd or 3rd grade level. She is a voracious reader, and wasn't daunted by 300 or 400 page books even in elementary school. She's read the Harry Potter books pretty much as soon as they've come out, so she started the series when she was 6 or 7.

D'oh! I just realized how much that sounds like I'm bragging. I guess I am. I'll try not to let it happen again.

The point is that if you teach them that understanding is FUN, and that understanding leads to power and ability, then they learn to question and not just rebel. They learn to think for themselves. A big part of that goes back to being consistent, rational, and understandable in our personal and parenting behaviour so that they can realize that there is a set of understandable, predictable rules that show them right from wrong.

They're both half way to black belt in Tang Soo Do, as well, so they're not just eggheads. This was at their own request, not our pushing them to succeed. They requested the lessons, and they've motivated themselves to pursue it.

Wups, I'm bragging again...
;)
 
neon_duke
Wups, I'm bragging again...
;)

Go right on ahead :) I never understood the instinct of parents to not only take great pride in their children but to almost live vicariously through their achievements, no matter how small.... until I became one.

I found my perspective shift after that moment on changed so much. For example, I used to be annoyed at crying children in resturants. Now I approach it with a much greater degree of understanding.


M
 
GTJugend
I'm not 100% at all about this since most of what I believe you Americans generally see as a good way to raise children is what I got from TV and movies.

There are people in America who patently reject the way certain things, family in particular, are reperesented on TV. I am one of them. Family life as presented on TV is totally unrealistic, and in many cases propagandized by liberal biases which make it, in my opinion, unhealthy and destructive. But plenty of Americans form their ideas, hence expectations, from TV, and end up sorely disappointed and confused with family life.

I've been trying to get my 18 month old son to stop turning the TV on and off for about three months now. He's out-smarted any deterent I can put in place. He know's he's not supposed to do it. On TV it would've been resolved in 30 minutes or an hour. In real life, this, and other things, like throwing toys or food, or parking his diapered butt right in the middle of the coffee table, go on and on. If you want to learn the meaning of patience try a week with a toddler. I try to put it in perspective by understanding that all toddlers are like this (many are much worse from what I read) and this is an important time where he learns what rules are and what fair discipline is. Like neon duke said, spanking is useless. It does not have the desired effect. I've slapped his hand before, and all it does is make me feel ashamed for caving in to my frustration because he'll just take his stinging hand and turn the TV off again, immediately. Then he'll run away laughing his ass off for the tenth time that night. I actually think it makes it more fun for him. Meanwhile I see his red hand and I feel terrible. Many people would accuse me of being a wus about it, I suppose. Actually, they have.
 
milefile
I've been trying to get my 18 month old son to stop turning the TV on and off for about three months now. He's out-smarted any deterent I can put in place. He know's he's not supposed to do it. On TV it would've been resolved in 30 minutes or an hour. In real life, this, and other things, like throwing toys or food, or parking his diapered butt right in the middle of the coffee table, go on and on. If you want to learn the meaning of patience try a week with a toddler. I try to put it in perspective by understanding that all toddlers are like this (many are much worse from what I read) and this is an important time where he learns what rules are and what fair discipline is. Like neon duke said, spanking is useless. It does not have the desired effect. I've slapped his hand before, and all it does is make me feel ashamed for caving in to my frustration because he'll just take his stinging hand and turn the TV off again, immediately. Then he'll run away laughing his ass off for the tenth time that night. I actually think it makes it more fun for him. Meanwhile I see his red hand and I feel terrible. Many people would accuse me of being a wus about it, I suppose. Actually, they have.

And there was a sudden turnoff for every curiosity about having children as so many times before in contact with real life. :)

I think your reaction of feeling guilt for slapping his hand sounds perfectly healthy. What if you didn't have it? How far would it go then?
 
Ha ha, before a certain age you can't teach children all that much yet. I can only come up with 2 workable suggestions - tape off the on/off button and use the remote or a switch in a power chord or something similar to turn the tv on off, and/or get him a toy with lots of buttons that actually do something when being pressed, like show pictures or make noise.

There are so many nice little games you can play with children. I know I don't have any of my own, but I used to babysit when I was a teen and I have a 6 years younger sister. One neat trick is to get the toy, open it yourself and start playing with it, until he wants to take it from you. Another fun trick is to get a toy, almost any toy, and keep it locked away. Then at a fixed time in the day, involve him in an elaborate ritual to get that toy out, play with it briefly, and put it back. Repeat this every day, or every other day, or every week. It doesn't always work with all kids and certainly not all ages, but it can and it's great fun and if it does work kids generally totally dig it.

@neon_duke: there are so many dynamics that you have little control over. For instance, any child that comes into a family as the first one will be treated differently. The first time, everything is new ground, you are worried more about everything, everything is harder, you have less routine, and no matter how hard you try to convince yourself that you treat the second child the same, it's never really true. And then there's the mere fact of there being noone above the firstborn, but the next one will always have someone to deal with. Social behaviour will develop completely differently as a result, but one very common trait is that the second will be forced to develop more sophisticated social skills.

Also, two children will often develop in different ways to differentiate themselves from the other. You can easily see how both children will unconsciously or consciously feel the need to do so - for the younger child especially, the older is almost always better at whatever he or she is good at, so the younger will often try to become good at things the older sibling is weaker at. It works both ways, because for the older, the younger came as competition, something new to deal with, whereas for the younger the older one was always there. The younger one often gets more attention too (needs more attention because is weaker, has more to learn etc.) and that too will cause the older one to develop certain traits.

At the same time, due to the other family dynamics - parents vs children, family vs outside world - the two will also develop a bond. It's very interesting. Of course there are also many other factors, some of which are innate. We know a lot more about ADHD and Autism now and either are largely physical conditions that are the extremes of an innate variable that is present in all of us in varying degrees (especially the capacity of the brain to build up and break down the more important neurotransmittors/hormones - though this can be very strongly influenced and is very flexible, it can still be 'broken' to a certain degree). Even if the differences are small, magnification by environmental factors can have a big impact.

I 100% agree with you on the rebel vs question distinction, that's what its going to be all about later in life and what will make them strong individuals who can make their own decisions and not just blindly follow others. Another hot one is that you can only teach them responsibility by giving it to them, and not taking it away again at the first slight error either - learning involves making mistakes too. It's important to realise that you need to be sharp with this - you have to give them the responsibility very soon after you perceive they may be able to handle it, because if you give it to them at that point, they will be impressed with it and a lot more careful, then when they've thought they were ready for it for a long, long time and you fiiiiiiiiiinally wised up. Then they generally overshoot the mark.

Reading this back, I guess I've been wanting kids for a while already ... :lol:
 
Arwin
Ha ha, before a certain age you can't teach children all that much yet. I can only come up with 2 workable suggestions - tape off the on/off button and use the remote or a switch in a power chord or something similar to turn the tv on off, and/or get him a toy with lots of buttons that actually do something when being pressed, like show pictures or make noise.
We actually have a device made especially for keeping baby hands off TV buttons, but he's outgrown it. I got rid off it for a couple days thinking it was useless anyway, and that was a mistake. I learned it is, at least, a deterent, even thought when he is determined enough, he gets past it. He also turns the receiver off so there's no sound. He was doing that last night during the debate, which is fine since I'd heard every single thing uttered a hundred times before.

They need to make toddler toys that don't look like they are for babies. He knows if something is a stupid baby toy or if it some cool adult device that does cool stuff. I give him my old cell phone to play with and he loves that. He also has an array of remote controls from things we don't have or don't use anymore. But they don't do anything so they're pretty boring I guess. He also has an old PS2 controller.

There are so many nice little games you can play with children. I know I don't have any of my own, but I used to babysit when I was a teen and I have a 6 years younger sister. One neat trick is to get the toy, open it yourself and start playing with it, until he wants to take it from you. Another fun trick is to get a toy, almost any toy, and keep it locked away. Then at a fixed time in the day, involve him in an elaborate ritual to get that toy out, play with it briefly, and put it back. Repeat this every day, or every other day, or every week. It doesn't always work with all kids and certainly not all ages, but it can and it's great fun and if it does work kids generally totally dig it.
Proof of this is my camcorder. Every time I get it out he immediately stops doing whatever cute or funny thing I wanted to record and goes for the camera. I have lots of tape of his face from six inches away while he grabs at the camera. This would be an example of where doing the opposite of what you suggest would be best. Have it around all the time and let him get bored with it. Same principle in reverse.

but one very common trait is that the second will be forced to develop more sophisticated social skills.
I'm the oldest of three and this is not true in my family. My sister is a virtual hermit and only has freinds she can feel sorry for; this includes her husband. She avoids me. The older we get the more pronounced it becomes.
 

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