PD servers are GARBAGE!!!!

  • Thread starter AllinWitJT
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Wireless is bad only if you have a weak or disturbed link/signal with your Wifi router/Acess Point.
It isn't inherently bad. With a wired connection, of course, you will have less chance of dropouts and/or problems.

Check on your PS3 XMB menu:
Settings > Network Settings > Settings and Connection Status List > Signal Strength
if it's above 85-90% there's little to worry.
Mine is at 90% at the moment. There are no other WiFi networks around me.
 
There's nothing wrong with wireless as long as you have fast internet, a decent router and your connection to your router is at a constant 100% and obviously NAT2. But unless you can say yes to all of those, I don't feel a wireless connection should be host, though you certainly CAN.

I say *I* won't host because even though I have very fast internet, and I am NAT2 (without even doing anything with the Verizon FiOS router), I'm 50 feet and 2 house floors away from my router. My connection only hovers about 75-80% and if I stare it it long enough it will sometimes drop to like 60 for a second then go back up. It's fine for playing online and my connection is still faster than alot of people even if they're hard wired (takes me about 8-10 minutes to download a 1+Gb demo). But because of my connection % I just choose not to host just to be considerate.
 
Oh right, I thought there was an architectural / protocol reason not to use wireless; ensuring "connection" quality seems pretty obvious to me. :D
Although saying that, I don't think I've ever checked it... (... turns out it's 100%, nice.)

Thanks! :)
 
So if we are going with peer to peer, 1 or more connections are bad and the cause of lag, does anyone know why lag is noticeable only with 13 or more drivers it seems? In other words why does the lag start when the cars fill in at 13?

Thanks.
 
The effect increases exponentially as you add more machines. It can be pretty bad with fewer drivers if there's a sufficiently bad connection in there, but even a moderate connection can hamstring a lobby.

Incidentally, it's Pingtest you need to use, rather than Speedtest. The actual data transferred is a nothingness (something like a quarter of a megabyte an hour), it's the latency that gets you. And always remember than your Ping might look good to your local server:

52638262.png

Under 50ms is a decent result for online gaming, and that jitter indicates a nice, stable connection​

But it's not going to be quite as good to someone on the opposite side of the next continent:

52638354.png

The jitter's still showing a stable connection, but now it takes 0.1s for my actions to register with you and another 0.1s for yours to register with me. And to be honest, that's better than I expected - proportionally most of the delay is within the home and local routing rather than the remaining 11,000 miles of the journey​


You might be playing in a room with 10 guys from California, exchanging data between you at 10ms intervals, but as soon as I join and make it 11, it takes every single one of you 0.1s to communicate with my machine and my machine takes 0.1s to send data back to each of your ten machines.

This is also why my LAN was lag-free, as I said. All of the machines were in the room and data transfer was limited only by the cabling (Cat6) and the switch (Gigabit). We had LAN-specific accounts to prevent external machines joining for this reason.
 
I don't know whose fault it is but in no other game have I encountered the phenomenon where cars/players "teleport" freely all over the place. It can happen once in a while like a momentary lag spike but only in GT5 have I seen it happening for extended periods of time (often entire races). There has to be something wrong with their net coding.

When there's lag in most games, you can notice it when watching a killcam and seeing that what the opponent saw doesn't match what happened to you but the gameplay remains rather smooth without "teleporting". In GT5, it feels like the server is constantly trying to make corrections of the opponents position on your screen based on their latency but the end result is much, much worse.
 
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Cosbuster
I don't know whose fault it is but in no other game have I encountered the phenomenon where cars/players "teleport" freely all over the place. It can happen once in a while like a momentary lag spike bu tonly in GT5 have I seen it happening for extended periods of time (often entire races). There has to be something wrong with their net coding.

When there's lag in most games, you can see it when watching a killcam and noticing that the timing of what the opponent saw didn't amtch yours but the gameplay remains smooth without "teleporting". In GT5, it feels like the server is trying to make a correction of the opponents position on your screen based on their latency but the end result is much, much worse.
Click to expand...

That's because they're moving more.

A guy running will peak at 15mph - less if weighed down with guns. With a 0.2s ping, he's only going to be 20 or so feet from where he was (and at 30 frames per second, he might miss 6 frames of animation). A car doing 150mph on a track would be two hundred feet away from where it was (and at 60 frames per second, it'll might miss 12 frames of animation). That's quite a significant distance.
 
Famine
That's because they're moving more.

A guy running will peak at 15mph - less if weighed down with guns. With a 0.2s ping, he's only going to be 20 or so feet from where he was (and at 30 frames per second, he might miss 6 frames of animation). A car doing 150mph on a track would be two hundred feet away from where it was (and at 60 frames per second, it'll might miss 12 frames of animation). That's quite a significant distance.
Click to expand...

Yet I have a really hard time remembering other online racing games where latency would cause such an issue. It can always happen but it's extremely rare while it's second nature in GT5.
 
Famine
The effect increases exponentially as you add more machines. It can be pretty bad with fewer drivers if there's a sufficiently bad connection in there, but even a moderate connection can hamstring a lobby.

Incidentally, it's Pingtest you need to use, rather than Speedtest. The actual data transferred is a nothingness (something like a quarter of a megabyte an hour), it's the latency that gets you. And always remember than your Ping might look good to your local server:


Under 50ms is a decent result for online gaming, and that jitter indicates a nice, stable connection

But it's not going to be quite as good to someone on the opposite side of the next continent:


The jitter's still showing a stable connection, but now it takes 0.1s for my actions to register with you and another 0.1s for yours to register with me. And to be honest, that's better than I expected - proportionally most of the delay is within the home and local routing rather than the remaining 11,000 miles of the journey

You might be playing in a room with 10 guys from California, exchanging data between you at 10ms intervals, but as soon as I join and make it 11, it takes every single one of you 0.1s to communicate with my machine and my machine takes 0.1s to send data back to each of your ten machines.

This is also why my LAN was lag-free, as I said. All of the machines were in the room and data transfer was limited only by the cabling (Cat6) and the switch (Gigabit). We had LAN-specific accounts to prevent external machines joining for this reason.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
Guess mine is pretty decent. Yet I've experienced a lot of trouble in GT5 lately, but I guess that has to do more with what Famine said than anything.

52640051.png
 
Cosbuster
Yet I have a really hard time remembering other online racing games where latency would cause such an issue. It can always happen but it's extremely rare while it's second nature in GT5.
Click to expand...

But again, it depends who you're playing with and where they are - and also whether the game has dedicated servers or not.

I played a fairly decent lobby with Sharky and a handful of other antipodeans. We got on okay, but there were only five of us - there was some patchiness, but nothing severe. My ping is pretty good for non-fibre in the UK (good ISP too), but it's still 300ms to New Zealand... We weren't racing properly, mind.

Meanwhile in a KOTS lobby with eight Brits, no problem. One Dutch player joined and it was still going okay. Then we got a player from the US and it went to hell - simply trying to send eight lots of data to the US and eight machines receiving it back just kicked the lobby's arse. It wasn't his fault - it's likely it was a Brit that had the weakest link connection (our internet standards are shocking) - but the Atlantic latency killed us.

So long as you're playing with people in your local area, you ought to be fine even with the odd dodgy connection. If you get up to a national area (or a State area for the US, what with most Western States being larger than France or Germany), you're probably still going to be okay. Get continental and you'll see issues. Go global and unless you're all on fibre-optic, pulling sub 5ms pings, you're going to get a lot of lag. It's simply more noticeable on a P2P racing game like GT5 than it is on a P2P shooting game like MW2 because of the massive speeds and distances involved.


I've not played many other racing games online - pretty much Burnout Paradise and some GTA4 - but I don't recall the experience being so much different. GTA4 in particular was a laggy mess. Unless you can assemble the same parties and test the various games (all over PSN, of course - XBL would be a variable), a proper comparative analysis is a bit tricky.
 
GT5 isn't the best game in the world, but I'm overall very satisfied with what they've made with the game. I don't hate PD, but I must say that there may be some truth to what the OP is saying, however childish, condescending and pedantic his attitude is.

Now, I have a very slow connection -- 1 Mb download and .1 Mb upload sponsored by your nearest third world country. I just cannot race in GT5 online. I've given up on it, because some nights it took me up to an hour and 20 minutes to find a lobby I could actually play in.

Having established that (my connection is not fast at all), I have to say that most other games I have played online give me no problems as severe as GT5, with most giving me absolutely no problems at all. On the PS3, I can play games like Warhawk (32 people games), Uncharted, Resistance 2 (rooms are up to 60 people) all with voice chat enabled and on the PC I get by perfectly playing Live for Speed and iRacing while having open VoIP sessions on either Skype or Teamspeak, as well as iRacing's integrated voice chat feature. The latter two are racing games as well, which require constant communication with the server as to your position and stuff like that just like GT5.

My personal experience first and foremost, but also the repeated reports of people having bad online gaming experiences with GT5 and not other games leads me to believe that there just might be something wrong with the way PD implemented their network code.

This is just my opinion, backed up by my personal experience. Take it as you will.
 
Great thread, great thread. Should not be locked. Should be a sticky.. hehe..
There has never been a form of "online connection problem thread" that has gotten this much attention in so short time that I know of. So nice approach!
...seems to be slowing down now tough, but hope it stays active..

Again, here is my call out to PD. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=219634&page=5Somone else already linked to it here tough. Sharing some possible solutions and information for some of the problems. Its more on the 749 error, loading stripes and disconnections and other stuff..
This thread seems to focus more on the problems with having many people in a room, crappy servers + all the other stuff.
I agree that more people equals more problems (more likely to get Loading stripes in my case), and since I have lots of connection problems in this game i try to stick with less people.
But, when im in a room without issues (happens rarely) 16 people could work just fine.

Either way, other games can take 24+++ people without issues all day long! 16 people in a room should should not be a problem. Having to limit to 5-8-12 players or whatever should not be a solution.
In my experience it has nothing to say if it is 4 or 16 maximum. If i get 749 error on the room host i will get into the room either way. I have done some research on it regarding the problems I have. Having to play only with people in the same country does nothing for me either. I can not do a 2 player room with my cousin who is forced to have same ISP and router as me. He does not play GT5 online. Too much issues. Thinking about it, he have basically stopped playing GT5, BECAUSE ALL HIS OTHER GAMES WORK JUST FINE ONLINE! just like mine.. In other games we can play fine together..
But I keep on playing and trying in GT5, love the game too much.. But I also hate the connection stuff, and I mainly play online.. Do not know how much longer I am able to keep up. I MIGHT get fiber connection in 6-8 months, and with the right router, things should work pretty good (in theory) But they should work perfect now. And that is not the case for many people, even for those with good/super high connections!
So yeah, to say it with your words. Looking at all the problems people are having only in GT5 can only mean one thing. GT5 servers are garbage!!.. Or maybe their netcode, or.... either way.. it is no good!
PD, PLEASE FIX IT!
 
THEPUNISHER
yes it is i'm sorry but i never had a trouble with anyone one only if the internet is garbage HIS internet .
Click to expand...
You are such an arrogant person, I have got a great connection and have problems,

However the biggest and most annoying problem for me is the friggin black screen which is still present, When i join a lobby sometimes it shows the blue loading bar and just stays on it for ages and i have to quit the out from the game,

Then if i do get in a lobby when i've finished in that room and quit out it either stays on the quiting out screen or it will go to the lobby and then just freeze, Is this because of ones bad internet too? I dont think so buddy.
 
lancia delta hf
I have got a great connection and have problems,

However the biggest and most annoying problem for me is the friggin black screen which is still present, When i join a lobby sometimes it shows the blue loading bar and just stays on it for ages and i have to quit the out from the game,

Then if i do get in a lobby when i've finished in that room and quit out it either stays on the quiting out screen or it will go to the lobby and then just freeze, Is this because of ones bad internet too? I dont think so buddy.
Click to expand...

i get this alot , well why i'm arrogant ? i pretty sure for what i did say before half an hour i played with my friend he can join my room after he gets kicked out several times and also i open another 3 or 4 rooms .

there alot of reasons for this problems for me its like this

1- internet condition ( bad good not good bandwith or whatever )
2- too much pressure for the servers
3- the host have a very good internet but not very good for the number of people in his room ( in my condition i will make alot of lag if 12 people or more joined soo i stick with 10 or 9 ) sometime its ok for me to join 12 but i dont want try it out

3- maybe the host is too far for some players ( i'm from UAE middle east , its not likely to join a French room )

4- sometime pd servers really arrive to " GARBAGE " condition

i forgot the other reasons 💡

i made alot of mistakes in grammar i would be pleased if some one correct :) .
 
We have all had it happen to us and or seen it happen to others. Max in a room is consistently 10-12 before problems arise. Lots of other random discos and rooms that completely implode. Forget about Playing someone over seas with any consistency.
Online plays like it's busted most of the time.

I have Comcast Top tier 20 Meg service with Boost or whatever
This is also the only game in my library or rental history with these kinds of issues.
 
90% of any connections trouble are with the ISP. I have Charter as my ISP, and was having a massive connection issue untill I called and threatened to take my money else where. After that I haven't had 1 disconnect and it's been nearly 5 months.
 
I like that ping test works on the PS3 browser so I can actually test it with my PS3 instead of a PC and assuming the PS3 would have the same results. Speedtest used to work on PS3 but hasn't in a couple years.

Testing with my PS3 which is wireless hovering around 75-80% through Verizon FiOS, the server was in New York 150~mi away. I got 31ms ping and 8ms jitter (whatever the hell that is lol). It said can't test packet loss, I'm guess that's because it's a PS3 not a PC. Grade was B*. I wish I could get closer to my router or hardwired, I'd probably get an easy A.
 
LarryL
I like that ping test works on the PS3 browser so I can actually test it with my PS3 instead of a PC and assuming the PS3 would have the same results. Speedtest used to work on PS3 but hasn't in a couple years.

Testing with my PS3 which is wireless hovering around 75-80% through Verizon FiOS, the server was in New York 150~mi away. I got 31ms ping and 8ms jitter (whatever the hell that is lol). It said can't test packet loss, I'm guess that's because it's a PS3 not a PC. Grade was B*. I wish I could get closer to my router or hardwired, I'd probably get an easy A.
Click to expand...

I'm 43 and 2. So I guess it's just luck of the draw when somebody joins a lobby for now unless there is limit of 12.
 
More like the OP's connection is garbage as the game isnt server based.

My experience with Gt online has been really positive here. Much better than other games imo. Only experienced lag afew times.
 
GT5 is server based, but I think that the sheer amount of bandwidth GT5 uses is hefty. Many people hosting rooms have no issues, then one person with slow connection hops into the room and usually that person alone is lagging all over the place. Sometimes it switches and that one person causes the room to act a little odd. I have witnessed this before, but then I have played people in the UK and I'm in the US and the room runs fine without much issue. I don't have any issues getting online and into any rooms at all, I'm on Optimum Online basic internet which is 15mb/3mb, mind you PS3 is connected to a router and it is DMZ cat5 whilst there are about 4 other PC's using my internet. I get to play online without much fanfare at all, so I suggest some people do some house keeping of your GT5 game, options and clear your cache. Then using your PS3 do a connection test which will do a connection speed test as well. Check your numbers and see what you are getting to your system before you have a given game running.

Now go check your numbers and if you are getting low numbers before even running an online game, then something is slowing down in your router. Perhaps NAT 3 because you have too many connected devices, DMZ the PS3 to ensure all ports are open. Then once the issue is not in your house, then the only other place is your ISP hand off and well there isn't anything you can do about that. GT5 is data intensive but it still works very well for what it's worth. GT5's netcode could use some work to smooth a lot of things out, but it's still being worked on. I remember the days in GT5 when you would win a race and the second place guy would get the loot for first place and other such oddities. Now head to the appropriate thread and let your finding be known.
 
LarryL
I like that ping test works on the PS3 browser so I can actually test it with my PS3 instead of a PC and assuming the PS3 would have the same results. Speedtest used to work on PS3 but hasn't in a couple years.

Testing with my PS3 which is wireless hovering around 75-80% through Verizon FiOS, the server was in New York 150~mi away. I got 31ms ping and 8ms jitter (whatever the hell that is lol). It said can't test packet loss, I'm guess that's because it's a PS3 not a PC. Grade was B*. I wish I could get closer to my router or hardwired, I'd probably get an easy A.
Click to expand...

Jitter is a measure of the variance, essentially the reliability of the "ping" figure. That's because, due to the way connections are used, a ping is never static - "the internet" is vast and sprawling, with lots of people using up bandwidth. With high jitter, you might find you alternate between comparatively high and low latency, which probably means you might as well have the higher latency.

Their packet loss testing requires Java; presumably the PS3 doesn't do Java.

Your figures are good; I doubt hardwiring will make much difference. But you should try pinging Europe or Australia, and see the difference. The point is, as soon as someone with a "poor" (unreliable, including very distant) connection joins, you all have to suffer.
 

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