PD servers are GARBAGE!!!!

[kilttraeger]

Right,

Here are some results for my connectivity.
I barely ever have problems. What seems to confuse my PS3 regularly is running remote races; afterwards connectivity is a 50/50 gamble. Reboot and good to go.

Local Ping test:


Cross country (UK, most gamers I race with are British):


Transcontinental (US):


I dare to wager that guys with problems have either a rather sub-par connectivity, or are running equipment which tends to be bollocks (early Netgear WiFi routers anyone?).

 

[another_jakhole]

PD, get 16 cars in a room trouble free and I'll think about purchasing from you in the future. Otherwise your servers are complete garbage. GT5 and PD, you lose!

First 30 seconds




That's two years ago. I'm sure it didn't shrink in size, since then.

 

[AllinWitJT]

First 30 seconds
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_K73QfbfhM">YouTube Link</a>



That's two years ago. I'm sure it didn't shrink in size, since then.

I'm sure the population grown as well as the amount of players. It's two years later. This isn't Prologue.

 

[Grimmeh]

With 16 players you have to account for each person&#8217;s connection quality and settings at that time. Wideband and low-ping Internet does not guarantee you a stable game.

A lot of people report this problem because a lot of people have poor Internet connections.

But I must sympathize that you can only play with 14 players. It&#8217;s almost unbearable to play with such a small race field. You&#8217;re probably better off going back to GT4, 16 player races there are perfectly stable still.

 

[another_jakhole]

I'm sure the population grown as well as the amount of players. It's two years later. This isn't Prologue.

All the more reason to upgrade?

 

[Bushby_23]

But I must sympathize that you can only play with 14 players. It&rsquo;s almost unbearable to play with such a small race field. You&rsquo;re probably better off going back to GT4, 16 player races there are perfectly stable still.

14 player races are small? In a maximum field of 16?

And GT4; the game with a maximum of 6 player offline and no online compatibility?

 

[AllinWitJT]

All the more reason to upgrade?

If you would have read you would know my ping. I have all 2011 network equipment. It's not me, I guess it's other bad connections. It's stupid to enter a lobby, qualify, quick tune then get lag 2 seconds into the race. Time killer.

 

[AllinWitJT]

With 16 players you have to account for each person&rsquo;s connection quality and settings at that time. Wideband and low-ping Internet does not guarantee you a stable game.

A lot of people report this problem because a lot of people have poor Internet connections.

But I must sympathize that you can only play with 14 players. It&rsquo;s almost unbearable to play with such a small race field. You&rsquo;re probably better off going back to GT4, 16 player races there are perfectly stable still.

Not the point. I want to play the game as it's advertised and setup to function. Then it's coding. Still PD's garbage.

 

[noisiaturismo]

It's not his internet connection. A lot of people have this problem. I don't have these issues with any other PS3 game, or game on my Xbox 360 or PC. You being a vapid fanboy that pretends these issues don't exist, isn't helping.

It needs a proper internet connection, if a lot of people can't play online, a lot of people don't have a proper internet connection.

I do, where's my problem?

New title for this topic:

MY internet is GARBAGE!!!!

 

[Grimmeh]

Not the point. I want to play the game as it's advertised and setup to function. Then it's coding. Still PD's garbage.

So stop playing it, geeze. You paid for what they offer and you don&#8217;t like it so move on. Get over it. Go play something else. Clearly nothing else is worth it so don&#8217;t complain that it isn&#8216;t your golden vision.

What if PD only limited it to 14 players but decided to squeeze two more at the cost of quality? They did us a favor, perhaps. Ever think of that? Want better quality? Play with less people. Done deal. Want 16 players? Deal with the compromise. GT5 still has better connection success for me than CoD has ever had.

P.S. It does play as advertised. Just because it doesn&#8217;t match up to your standard of quality doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s performing under acceptable terms. It&#8217;s the real world, things happen, nothing&#8217;s perfect.

 

[Famine]

Not the point. I want to play the game as it's advertised and setup to function. Then it's coding. Still PD's garbage.

Nope. It's people with poor connections or from very far away joining your lobbies. Get 15 guys from near you with connections the same as yours and you'll have a 16 man lobby without a problem - remember, we had lagless gameplay (not replays though, oddly) in an 11 man lobby because we were physically in the same room and running through the same switch, with an utterly stable and near-zero ping system.

It's the nature of networks. It takes time to transfer the information from your device, through the network to the other devices - and with a 60fps game involving vehicles moving at a typical average speed of 120mph, anything over 17ms will be visible and manifest as a significant change of position. With a dedicated server, it might even be slower as you all have to send your information to it and receive everyone else's information from it and it is geographically fixed, meaning your online experience will always be crap if it's crap from the get-go - peer-to-peer is used to minimise lag, normalise the connections and to provide a relatively consistent online experience for everyone. If GT5 had fixed servers in Japan, you'd have a terrible game - you'd need to send your data along the California coast to San Francisco, across the pacific (there's a couple of cables on this route, but they're still several thousand miles) to Tokyo and then on to wherever the data centre is and then they'd have to send the data back to you - probably a round-trip of 0.1s. But then so would everyone else, even if they were in your street. Everyone gets 0.1s of lag, whereas on P2P the data would go no further than your local routing centre or exchange (probably 10 miles or less) and you'd experience no more than 0.02s of lag - possibly much, much less...


The net result, however, is that people with crap connections ruin it for everyone else. You get 14 guys from your street playing and you get no more than 0.02s of lag. Guy 15 joins and he's from Indonesia. Suddenly you're all having to send data to him as well - 15 lots of 0.1s round trips - and your lobby goes to hell.

If you only run private lobbies with people you know with decent connections from no more than 200 miles (crow flight) away, you'll be fine. Push it up to 500 miles and you'll still have a good online experience. Go further or have unknowns joining and you're banjoed. Matchmaking software for public lobbies should try and pair you with people with similar connections and geographical locations - I don't play public so I can't make any claims about the efficiency of GT5's matchmaking software, but in public lobbies in games like MW2 that are also P2P I always end up playing with other Brits, French, Irish, Dutch, Spanish and German players....

 

[Korza]

Nope. It's people with poor connections or from very far away joining your lobbies. Get 15 guys from near you with connections the same as yours and you'll have a 16 man lobby without a problem - remember, we had lagless gameplay (not replays though, oddly) in an 11 man lobby because we were physically in the same room and running through the same switch, with an utterly stable and near-zero ping system.

It's the nature of networks. It takes time to transfer the information from your device, through the network to the other devices - and with a 60fps game involving vehicles moving at a typical average speed of 120mph, anything over 17ms will be visible and manifest as a significant change of position. With a dedicated server, it might even be slower as you all have to send your information to it and receive everyone else's information from it and it is geographically fixed, meaning your online experience will always be crap if it's crap from the get-go - peer-to-peer is used to minimise lag, normalise the connections and to provide a relatively consistent online experience for everyone. If GT5 had fixed servers in Japan, you'd have a terrible game - you'd need to send your data along the California coast to San Francisco, across the pacific (there's a couple of cables on this route, but they're still several thousand miles) to Tokyo and then on to wherever the data centre is and then they'd have to send the data back to you - probably a round-trip of 0.1s. But then so would everyone else, even if they were in your street. Everyone gets 0.1s of lag, whereas on P2P the data would go no further than your local routing centre or exchange (probably 10 miles or less) and you'd experience no more than 0.02s of lag - possibly much, much less...


The net result, however, is that people with crap connections ruin it for everyone else. You get 14 guys from your street playing and you get no more than 0.02s of lag. Guy 15 joins and he's from Indonesia. Suddenly you're all having to send data to him as well - 15 lots of 0.1s round trips - and your lobby goes to hell.

If you only run private lobbies with people you know with decent connections from no more than 200 miles (crow flight) away, you'll be fine. Push it up to 500 miles and you'll still have a good online experience. Go further or have unknowns joining and you're banjoed. Matchmaking software for public lobbies should try and pair you with people with similar connections and geographical locations - I don't play public so I can't make any claims about the efficiency of GT5's matchmaking software, but in public lobbies in games like MW2 that are also P2P I always end up playing with other Brits, French, Irish, Dutch, Spanish and German players....

+1 You explained it perfectly Famine. 👍

 

[iridegravity]

+1 You explained it perfectly Famine. 👍

yes he did. The game ought to be marketed as such and Sony/PD should advise people on how to best work with the limits of the system.
Problem is, with a system that is limited to the amount of peers playing the game within your same geographical area, its tough to populate a lobby.
Makes plenty of sense now. Thanks

 

[Custer85]

NAT2, low ping, good upload, no problems. As long as all the players are from Europe. There are some issues with cars not showing up during the race, but that can be avoided with looking at the players in the lobby. If you see a loading bar under the name of one of the players you are not in sync with this player and can therefore not see him during the race. Reconnection solves the issue for me most the time. I never had problems with players from central europe, most of the time i get sync problems with players from southern Europe (Spain, Italy and Greece), eastern Europe and Russia. I have less Problems with connections to players from the US, Australia and Japan.

Overall the Multiplayer is good and the lag is no issue for me. Iam not participating in a league or clan based racing, so i can not comment on every single player during a race. Usually some players drop during the race without giving a reason, so theys might have had some connection error, or gave up due to some crash or mistake early in the race.

The communication with headsets is ok, but some people just keep on spaming the lobby with loud music, engine sounds or other background noise. Thank god for the mute button.

I havent raced online for quite some time now (since 2.0), because i can not set up my wheel in my new room until i got all the furniture i need, but i will come back next year in January.


Edit: Geographical distances between players are not that important, its all about the quality of the connection. You could live next door to your teammate, but the connection might aswell be routed across borders of several countries. Its automatically selecting the fastest route, not the geographicly shortest route.

 

[AllinWitJT]

So stop playing it, geeze. You paid for what they offer and you don&rsquo;t like it so move on. Get over it. Go play something else. Clearly nothing else is worth it so don&rsquo;t complain that it isn&lsquo;t your golden vision.

What if PD only limited it to 14 players but decided to squeeze two more at the cost of quality? They did us a favor, perhaps. Ever think of that? Want better quality? Play with less people. Done deal. Want 16 players? Deal with the compromise. GT5 still has better connection success for me than CoD has ever had.

P.S. It does play as advertised. Just because it doesn&rsquo;t match up to your standard of quality doesn&rsquo;t mean it&rsquo;s performing under acceptable terms. It&rsquo;s the real world, things happen, nothing&rsquo;s perfect.

Online up to 16 is a option in the game that does not work. Would you drive your car around on 3 wheels if a wheel bearing didn't work how it should? Or would you just get over it?

Nope. It's people with poor connections or from very far away joining your lobbies. Get 15 guys from near you with connections the same as yours and you'll have a 16 man lobby without a problem - remember, we had lagless gameplay (not replays though, oddly) in an 11 man lobby because we were physically in the same room and running through the same switch, with an utterly stable and near-zero ping system.

It's the nature of networks. It takes time to transfer the information from your device, through the network to the other devices - and with a 60fps game involving vehicles moving at a typical average speed of 120mph, anything over 17ms will be visible and manifest as a significant change of position. With a dedicated server, it might even be slower as you all have to send your information to it and receive everyone else's information from it and it is geographically fixed, meaning your online experience will always be crap if it's crap from the get-go - peer-to-peer is used to minimise lag, normalise the connections and to provide a relatively consistent online experience for everyone. If GT5 had fixed servers in Japan, you'd have a terrible game - you'd need to send your data along the California coast to San Francisco, across the pacific (there's a couple of cables on this route, but they're still several thousand miles) to Tokyo and then on to wherever the data centre is and then they'd have to send the data back to you - probably a round-trip of 0.1s. But then so would everyone else, even if they were in your street. Everyone gets 0.1s of lag, whereas on P2P the data would go no further than your local routing centre or exchange (probably 10 miles or less) and you'd experience no more than 0.02s of lag - possibly much, much less...

The net result, however, is that people with crap connections ruin it for everyone else. You get 14 guys from your street playing and you get no more than 0.02s of lag. Guy 15 joins and he's from Indonesia. Suddenly you're all having to send data to him as well - 15 lots of 0.1s round trips - and your lobby goes to hell.

If you only run private lobbies with people you know with decent connections from no more than 200 miles (crow flight) away, you'll be fine. Push it up to 500 miles and you'll still have a good online experience. Go further or have unknowns joining and you're banjoed. Matchmaking software for public lobbies should try and pair you with people with similar connections and geographical locations - I don't play public so I can't make any claims about the efficiency of GT5's matchmaking software, but in public lobbies in games like MW2 that are also P2P I always end up playing with other Brits, French, Irish, Dutch, Spanish and German players....

Makes sense. Thanks.

 

[D00msday]

Works fine for me :/
best of luck to people having issues with it

Same. 👍

 

[brettcee]

Well if you're good with paying for something and not getting what you paid for I have tons of stuff to offer you. Here I'll sell you a brand new car with air conditioning and 4 tires, oh you can only use the air condition doing 15mph or less. And once you hit 40 you only get 2 tires. I'm not telling you this until after you buy it.

PD advertises a 16 car online race, if it's only obtainable on an perfect network then they should limit the rooms to what can reliably be achieved by their customers.

 

[Famine]

Well if you're good with paying for something and not getting what you paid for I have tons of stuff to offer you. Here I'll sell you a brand new car with air conditioning and 4 tires, oh you can only use the air condition doing 15mph or less. And once you hit 40 you only get 2 tires. I'm not telling you this until after you buy it.

My car can do 144mph. I'm legally restricted to 70mph. That's not Mazda's fault.

Blame the people behind the network infrastructure for poor network performance. That'll be the telecommunications companies in the countries of the people who drag your lobbies' performances down.

PD advertises a 16 car online race, if it's only obtainable on an perfect network then they should limit the rooms to what can reliably be achieved by their customers.

It's not. It's achieveable in normal circumstances but if you aren't very discerning over who you race with, your experience will be poor.

It's the nature of networks.

 

[Grimmeh]

Online up to 16 is a option in the game that does not work. Would you drive your car around on 3 wheels if a wheel bearing didn't work how it should? Or would you just get over it?

It does work, just not for you. You might be one out of 10,000. Also, read up on weak analogy. Any 16-player races I’ve done work decently well for me. There isn’t a swarm of people complaining with you. Wake up and smell the roses.

At this point you’re just arguing to defend your position. Clearly any further discussion is yammer.

 

[AllinWitJT]

It does work, just not for you. You might be one out of 10,000. Also, read up on weak analogy. Any 16-player races I&#146;ve done work decently well for me. There isn&#146;t a swarm of people complaining with you. Wake up and smell the roses.

At this point you&#146;re just arguing to defend your position. Clearly any further discussion is yammer.

You really think GTP is the draw of all GT5 players? Of course there won't be a swarm. Not arguing anything. I highly doubt all of your online experience is a bed of roses. That is proof enough for me.

 

[Grimmeh]

You really think GTP is the draw of all GT5 players? Of course there won't be a swarm. Not arguing anything. I highly doubt all of your online experience is a bed of roses. That is proof enough for me.

No, I never said GTP was. People find out ways. Big problems get out gaming news, blogs, other forums, and so on. Clearly this is an isolated problem. The fact that I have no problem is just a small piece that says it‘s not the game if even just someone else has no problems, to which I’m adding to the many others that have commented saying it’s fine.

If this isn’t arguing what is…

 

[TeggD]

New title for this topic:

MY internet is GARBAGE!!!!

This is true lol. Some people dont understand how online gaming works.

 

[AllinWitJT]

No, I never said GTP was. People find out ways. Big problems get out gaming news, blogs, other forums, and so on. Clearly this is an isolated problem. The fact that I have no problem is just a small piece that says it&#8216;s not the game if even just someone else has no problems, to which I&#8217;m adding to the many others that have commented saying it&#8217;s fine.

If this isn&#8217;t arguing what is&#8230;

Ok...so your posting to help? There is no value in posting "my connection is fine". No value. Fine doing what? How often, what time, players from where, room full, mics. on, mics. off, your lounge, open lobby, fixed host, non. Really, fine doing what?

This is true lol. Some people dont understand how online gaming works.

It just keeps getting better. Thanks for your help. You all know GT5 online racing has issues no other game has when it comes to online play. Oh wait, let me post it for you. Go play another game right?

 

[Famine]

It's simply not a true statement though. The reason you see the issues more markedly is because you're playing a popular (more people = more people with crap connections) racing game - and in racing games things move further in less time, so a small amount of lag becomes much more noticeable. Stick it up to 60fps from 30fps and lag becomes more noticeable at half the magnitude.

GT5 has no more network problems than any other P2P game - we found a 16 man private match in MW2 (website vs. website) to be literally unplayable, even with the only players being from within the UK, because some people were using packet-shaped connections from Virgin and some were using throttled connections from BT. In a 12 player public game which MW2's own matchmaking system had been allowed to put together, they could play just fine - private was worse than public, because the matchmaking software knew how crap their connection was and paired them up with similar connections, but we invited our mates regardless of their crap connections!

 

[AllinWitJT]

So if you could run A-Spec or Seasonals only every now and then that would be acceptable as well?

 

[Famine]

So if you could run A-Spec or Seasonals only every now and then that would be acceptable as well?

That seems like a massively incongruous statement and in no way leads on from what I said.

I'll remind you that this isn't a problem inherent to the game but to networking. If your connection is the one that is at fault, it's equivalent to playing A-Spec without plugging the TV in and complaining about the game's graphics. If someone else's connection is at fault, it's equivalent to playing A-Spec while your mates run around your gaming room and complaining about the game's distracting sound.


If your lobby is patchy, someone in it is dragging the connection down. It's the infrastructure that is at fault. That's the nature of networks.

 

[Grimmeh]

Ok...so your posting to help? There is no value in posting "my connection is fine". No value. Fine doing what? How often, what time, players from where, room full, mics. on, mics. off, your lounge, open lobby, fixed host, non. Really, fine doing what?

I just explained the value of it to you… How are you going going to ask for an objective list of facts if you yourself don’t subject yourself to that!

How does no other game have issues? GT5 has outstanding performance in comparison to top-ranking PS3 games. 👍

As it’s been explained to you, there is an inherent nature to networked gaming. If you can’t get your head out of your ––– then there isn’t anything the world can do for you.

 

[Custer85]

Ok...so your posting to help? There is no value in posting "my connection is fine". No value. Fine doing what? How often, what time, players from where, room full, mics. on, mics. off, your lounge, open lobby, fixed host, non. Really, fine doing what?

We would be able to analyse your problems a bit better if you could tell us with whom you are playing, especially where they come from and wich kind of connections they use. Just yelling that "PD servers are GARBAGE!!!!" does not make it any better since many people are not having problems, your experience could be a different problem not related to GT5 specificly.

Which other games to you play online via PSN? Ever had packageloss with your connection? Do your teammates have decent connections?
One bad connection in the lobby can ruin the experience for everyone else. Usually GT5 solves such issues by ghosting players with bad connections.

There are many things that might cause your problem with GT5, but stating that GT5s 16 player online mode does not work as fact is far from the truth. It actually works for many people, just like it does for me. I don't know how many games you have played online, but there is no perfect netcode, or completely lag free gaming. My experience so far tells me that GT5 is nothing out of the ordinary as far as connection problems are concerned. They do appear from time to time, but the number of errors appears to be average, or even below average since all consoles are equally powerful and slow systems can not cause errors like they do with the pc.

 

[AllinWitJT]

We would be able to analyse your problems a bit better if you could tell us with whom you are playing, especially where they come from and wich kind of connections they use. Just yelling that "PD servers are GARBAGE!!!!" does not make it any better since many people are not having problems, your experience could be a different problem not related to GT5 specificly.

Which other games to you play online via PSN? Ever had packageloss with your connection? Do your teammates have decent connections?
One bad connection in the lobby can ruin the experience for everyone else. Usually GT5 solves such issues by ghosting players with bad connections.

There are many things that might cause your problem with GT5, but stating that GT5s 16 player online mode does not work as fact is far from the truth. It actually works for many people, just like it does for me. I don't know how many games you have played online, but there is no perfect netcode, or completely lag free gaming. My experience so far telly me that GT5 is nothing out of the ordinary as far as connection problems are concerned. They do appear from time to time, but the number of errors appears to be average, or even below average since all consoles are equally powerful and slow systems can not cause errors like they do with the pc.

All U.S. all under 63 ping down to 35.

 

[Famine]

Ping to a set external server is one thing - and only a start. The ping from device to device is more important - if I can ping Milton Keynes at 40ms and someone else can ping Milton Keynes at 40ms, we could have a device to device ping of 80ms if we're opposite and equidistant (in terms of cabling). That's gone from good for online gaming (40ms) to merely okay (80ms). Of course the connections might be unstable - this is where jitter comes in. My connection pings MK at 40ms with a 2ms jitter (think of jitter as "plus or minus"). The other person might ping MK at 40ms with a 15ms jitter - we've now gone up to 97ms and that's nudging on "don't bother with online gaming". With just two people.

If people have poor gaming ISPs - packet shaping or throttled connections - their ping is irrelevant. They're going to have a cack old time of it.

It's still the fault of the infrastructure and the nature of networks.