PD servers are GARBAGE!!!!

Griffith500 · Jan 6, 2012

AllinWitJT
Hey, if you want this problem in GT6 good for you. I don't. I apologize.

There you go again! :lol:

It really bears no relation to what I said. It's almost like you're trolling. Almost.

nasanu
Saying it is p2p so PD is not to blame is a huge leap. Sure the OP might not have the best networking knowledge and blamed the wrong aspect, but p2p or not it is PDs code that runs it all. PDs code is what is stopping people from entering rooms, it is their code that is dropping people out of races, their code that shows blank names, their code that allows invisible cars etc.

Without code there is no p2p, it all has to bet setup and managed.

That's not what was at issue, though; it was about being unable to race with 16 people, but 14 was OK (so: latency).

I'm not disputing that there are problems, I had huge issues just playing with people in the same house at launch, as well as the terrible connection (contention ratio?) to the actual servers giving me grief in every menu and not even allowing me to see the list of public rooms. Most of these issues disappeared sometime at the beginning of 2010, and I now only get the odd difficulty if someone is abusing the connection (my problem). Perhaps the crappy service is merely doing the rounds? Those that at one time could play great, now no longer can; those that couldn't, now can? Who knows.

On the other hand, you cannot expect mere code to account for all situations, especially those outside of PD's control.

AllinWitJT · Jan 6, 2012

Griffith500
There you go again!
It really bears no relation to what I said. It's almost like you're trolling. Almost.

Sure boss.

sparkedglory · Jan 6, 2012

Usually works just fine for me, even with 16 players. If it sucks then it's probably your own connection. >.>

dr_slump · Jan 6, 2012

Spliffy
Great! A smart-a$$! I could write a couple of books about all the possibilities as to why, but I don't have the time either.

Then also don't post the pic. :lol:

AllinWitJT · Jan 6, 2012

sparkedglory
Usually works just fine for me, even with 16 players. If it sucks then it's probably your own connection. >.>

Oh ok. Thanks! Easy.

Ealirendur · Jan 6, 2012

nasanu
your criticism is a little ironic as the unreliability of udp is exactly why it is chosen for games. The lack of error checking reduces overhead and improves speed.

What i meant by my comment was that is would certainly be possible to get udp data to everyone. The issue is that gt5 simply can not establish a connection, not a that packet here and there might get dropped.

Pardon the only barely relevant [threadjack]

Code:

&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..________
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;,.-&#8216;&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8220;~.,
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..,.-&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8220;-.,
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.,/&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8221;:,
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;,?&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;\,
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;./&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..,}
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;../&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;,:`^`..}
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;/&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;,:&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;/
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..?&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..:`&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;../
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;./.(&#8230;..&#8220;~-,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;,:`&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;./
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;../(&#8230;.&#8221;~,&#8230;&#8230;..&#8220;~,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..,:`&#8230;&#8230;../
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.{..$;&#8230;&#8230;&#8221;=,&#8230;&#8230;.&#8220;-,&#8230;&#8230;.,.-~-,},.~&#8221;;/&#8230;.}
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..((&#8230;..*~&#8230;&#8230;.&#8221;=-.&#8230;&#8230;&#8220;;,,./`&#8230;./&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;../
&#8230;,,,.\`~,&#8230;&#8230;&#8220;~.,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..`&#8230;..}&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;../
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;(&#8230;.`=-,,&#8230;&#8230;.`&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;(&#8230;&#8230;;_,,-&#8221;
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;/.`~,&#8230;&#8230;`-&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.\&#8230;&#8230;/\
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.\`~.*-,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.|,./&#8230;..\,
,,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.}.>-.\&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..|&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..`=~-,
&#8230;..`=~-,_\&#8230;&#8230;`\,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;\
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.`=~-,,.\,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.\
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..`:,,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;`\&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.._
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.`=-,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.,%`>&#8211;==&#8220;
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.\&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..,-%&#8230;&#8230;.`\
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..,<`..|,-&&#8220;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.`\

I know, right? (I've even used the hoary old joke before when describing why online play is different to offline - and also [post=6270975]linked[/post] back to it in the other thread. You'd think the ACK thing would have given it away....

(A streaming video facepalm or the like would have involved more irony, yes).

However, you said "packet", not "packets", not "data", the singular, nor qualified in any other way, which was funny - and you might even have laughed had anybody else said it.

Yes, if their netcode isn't using UDP where appropriate (TCP would be for slow control channel stuff, and PSN and chat, and so forth), it would be sub-optimal in the engineering sense. I humbly apologise for my pedantry that sullied your crystal-clear point.

However, given the vagaries of UPnP (just one factor), sub-par consumer routers, and the lack of anything resembling controlled conditions in generally fairly stormy conditions that are the modern internet, it would not be unreasonable to assume that you still might not have been passed telemetry from someone 13 links back in the mesh (which could be being renegotiated right now) that you were supposed to be using to calculate whether you're in the draft or not.

Really, the fact I was offering to drag a managed switch home and apply wireshark wasn't a clue I might know why UDP would be useful?

[/threadjack]

I think the actual question is, why >~12 drivers, and why now?

EDIT: Grah. The [CODE] version renders better on mobile, I think.

CSLACR · Jan 6, 2012

Ealirendur
Pardon the only barely relevant [threadjack]

..________
,.-.~.,
..,.-..-.,
.,/..:,
,?\,
./..,}
../,:`^`..}
/,:/
..?....:`../
./.(..~-,,:`./
../(.~,..~,..,:`../
.{..$;=,.-,.,.-~-,},.~;/.}
..((..*~.=-.;,,./`./../
,,,.\`~,~.,..`..}../
(.`=-,,.`(;_,,-
/.`~,`-.\/\
.\`~.*-,.|,./..\,
,,.}.>-.\..|..`=~-,
..`=~-,_\`\,\
.`=~-,,.\,.\
..`:,,`\.._
.`=-,.,%`>==
.\..,-%.`\
..,<`..|,-&.`\

I know, right? (I've even used the hoary old joke before when describing why online play is different to offline - and even [post=6270975]linked[/post] back to it in the other thread. You'd think the ACK thing would have given it away....

(A streaming video facepalm or the like would have involved more irony, yes).

However, you said "packet", not "packets", not "data", the singular, nor qualified in any other way, which was funny - and you might even have laughed had anybody else said it.

Yes, if their netcode isn't using UDP where appropriate (TCP would be for slow control channel stuff, and PSN and chat, and so forth), it would be sub-optimal in the engineering sense. I humbly apologise for my pedantry that sullied your crystal-clear point.

However, given the vagaries of UPnP (just one factor), sub-par consumer routers, and the lack of anything resembling controlled conditions in generally fairly stormy conditions that are the modern internet, it would not be unreasonable to assume that you still might not have been passed telemetry from someone 13 links back in the mesh (which could be being renegotiated right now) that you were supposed to be using to calculate whether you're in the draft or not.

Really, the fact I was offering to drag a managed switch home and apply wireshark wasn't a clue I might know why UDP would be useful?

[/threadjack]

I think the actual question is, why >~12 drivers, and why now?

I didn't know you were made of pure genius, Ren. :confused:

👍

NotSoSilentBob · Jan 6, 2012

I know I posted earlier but I figured this might help people with any connections issues.

http://portforward.com/

It gives detailed picture walk thrus on how to forward the ports GT5/ps3 games need to your router.

nasanu · Jan 7, 2012

Ealirendur
However, given the vagaries of UPnP (just one factor), sub-par consumer routers, and the lack of anything resembling controlled conditions in generally fairly stormy conditions that are the modern internet, it would not be unreasonable to assume that you still might not have been passed telemetry from someone 13 links back in the mesh (which could be being renegotiated right now) that you were supposed to be using to calculate whether you're in the draft or not.

Really, the fact I was offering to drag a managed switch home and apply wireshark wasn't a clue I might know why UDP would be useful?

I think the actual question is, why >~12 drivers, and why now?

Any sort of data like that you would get from the local model, network data simply updates the local model every now and then to correct the prediction.

But I've no idea where all this talk is coming from, perhaps I should read more of this thread. I was just replying to your single comment, I've read nothing of your previous posts, the offer or the question.

Jason_B · Jan 7, 2012

Famine
That said, if you're convinced the update is at fault, you have a solution. Wait for the next update (2.03, this month).

I can say that my connection is not the best. I never had problems getting online though, and it's only in GT. If I try to go into or exit either the OCD and or the Seasonal Events I lock up in the GT screen.

Case in point, tonight, log in, no problems, started up Gt, no problems, Log in bonus, no problem, OCD, locked up in GT screen.

Also since the last updates my music in the menus is cutting in and out. All I did was change from some of GT's basic music to some of their jazz songs and all it does is cut out now. Thinking it could be a PS3 problem, I watched a 2 hour movie last night, no problems at all.

Ealirendur · Jan 7, 2012

nasanu
Any sort of data like that you would get from the local model, network data simply updates the local model every now and then to correct the prediction.

But I've no idea where all this talk is coming from, perhaps I should read more of this thread. I was just replying to your single comment, I've read nothing of your previous posts, the offer or the question.

I was merely offering a single example as to where a reasonable model could run into difficulty, as mesh configurations could easily be messed up intermittently by combinations of latency/NAT (eg, jitter, plus NAT combinations causing non-ideal mesh configurations). The local model can then only guess or interpolate from previous telemetry (by which I mean any and all data passed from another car/local model), and it could easily be wrong by then (eg, the driver did complete the pass 300ms ago, so you lost out on ~.2-.3s of draft, even if that seems petty).

It probably wasn't completely germane to this discussion, which would seem to be mostly about lag/framerate drop and the general unusability of full rooms, which does not always seem to lead to severe differences in timing. It might only be a difference of degree, of course. I did, however, ask that more general question outside of the bit I apologized for.

Jason_B · Jan 7, 2012

Jason_B
I can say that my connection is not the best. I never had problems getting online though, and it's only in GT. If I try to go into or exit either the OCD and or the Seasonal Events I lock up in the GT screen.

Case in point, tonight, log in, no problems, started up Gt, no problems, Log in bonus, no problem, OCD, locked up in GT screen.

Also since the last updates my music in the menus is cutting in and out. All I did was change from some of GT's basic music to some of their jazz songs and all it does is cut out now. Thinking it could be a PS3 problem, I watched a 2 hour movie last night, no problems at all.

And still the same after deleting and reinstalling everything.

Jason_B · Jan 8, 2012

Jason_B
And still the same after deleting and reinstalling everything.

2nd delete and reinstall and everything is now working.

bs13 · Jan 8, 2012

The online issues are real and they started with the 2.02 update. Me and my friends have had tons of problems. At least once a night I get a black screen at the start of an online race. Usually I'm not the only one when this happens. The only 'fix' is for the host to have everyone back out and start the race again. If that doesn't happen you have to sign out of PSN or quit the game.

I've also had freezes at the end of a race forcing me to shut down my PS3 via the button on the console. Very often a person takes forever to get into a room. I've seen plenty of people with loading lines in rooms when they were showing as completely loaded and/or blued up to others. This forces one of us to leave the room. Sometimes when a host resets the room the room will lock up when loading the track which forces the host to start a new room. Lag has also been much worse since the update.

Again, this all started after the 2.02 update and is not exclusive to me or my connection. It's also happening to my friends and the people I have raced with for months. One of my friends contacted PSN and a tech snuck in the room to investigate. He was present when some of us blackscreened and when the room locked up after a reset.

I have a NAT type 2 wired connection with 3mbps down and 756 up. When I do a speed test my ping is usually around 59ms. The strange thing is that I hosted a non-fixed host room the last 2 nights and my room ran perfect with no lag. Only 7 people were in my room though.

NLxAROSA · Jan 8, 2012

Famine
That's not to say you're wrong, just that the assumption the update broke it is unsafe - particularly as with 7 million copies out there, you'd expect an update that broke your identical-to-everyone-else files to have broken all theirs too.

With all the variables in the whole process, it very well might be broken everywhere, but it could show in just a few cases. E.g. PD did not implement response-timeout on several non-essential network features. That in itself is not a problem, as long as there are no network issues. Once you add those in the mix, that becomes a major pain-in-the-butt, and it's definitely something that should be fixed in the code, because network 101 teaches you never to rely on a connection.

Also, I've noticed something with the black screen/long loading times issue. I have been suffering from it from time to time, and I always figured it was something with the account servers at PD. But when PDs servers were offline, the game was still slow, so it has to be PSN (where all the account data from you and your friends is retrieved), since signing out of PSN instantly solves the issue. But how come only a few people suffer from it, and not others? These things are very hard to trace, and you can't just blame it on the user (or PD). It could be caused by one faulty network card on one single server in PSN (or your ISP, or on your own end, etc. etc.), and it would show exactly these symptoms. Just because it's okay for 99% of the users and only 1% suffer from it, does not guarantee in any way it's the users fault. Then again, you can't guarantee it's PD either.

Jason_B · Jan 8, 2012

The only change I made on this install is that I did not install the whole 8 gigs of the game. It's working great now. I have to think that all of these updates may conflict with the 8 gig saved data and one point or another. They have been doing a lot of updates.

PD servers are GARBAGE!!!!

Griffith500

AllinWitJT

sparkedglory

dr_slump

AllinWitJT

Ealirendur

WRS Race Steward

CSLACR

NotSoSilentBob

nasanu

Jason_B

Ealirendur

WRS Race Steward

Jason_B

Jason_B

bs13

NLxAROSA

King of Rockay

Jason_B

Similar threads

Latest Posts