Pepper Spray

[supra229]

This is a true news article I read while on the tube in London.

A young man drove past a police officer on a motorbike and sprayed a water pistol into his visor the officer than pulled him over and sprayed pepper spray in his eyes and then arresting him once he was sure he was senseless.

Post your views on this, I think this is crazy, its just water.

 

[Timmotheus]

The guy deserved it. Even if the guy on the motorcycle hadn't been a cop, he had every right to do the same thing. Water on your visor while on a motorcycle can be deadly. While, if it was used in excess, the pepper spray might have been going to far, the man certainly deserved to be arrested, or at least deserved a good beating.

 

[Klostrophobic]

Wouldn't it technically be assault with a deadly weapon (water)?

He deserved it.

 

[DeathLegion66]

Since when was water a "deadly" weapon?

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by supra229
This is a true news article I read while on the tube in London.

A young man drove past a police officer on a motorbike and sprayed a water pistol into his visor the officer than pulled him over and sprayed pepper spray in his eyes and then arresting him once he was sure he was senseless.

Post your views on this, I think this is crazy, its just water.

You try being a cop for one day - one day - and then see how much restraint you need to stop yourself from beating the crap out of half the people you encounter.

How was the cop supposed to know it was just water? It could have been anything. Even if it was just water, as Timmotheus pointed out, that could very well have caused the officer to crash his motorcycle from either surprise of poor visibility.

If I was the cop I would have done exactly the same thing. And I would have wanted to pound the tar out of the antagonistic idiot, too.

 

[supra229]

We've just had a heat wave in Europe it was 40C in Italy it was just a bit of fun.

(Just trying to add to the argument to make things interesting)

 

[SaleenASL]

Originally posted by DeathLegion66
Since when was water a "deadly" weapon?

Always?

Assault with a deadly weapon relies on the possibility of life threatening harm, not the actual infliction of injury. As Timmy pointed out, losing control of a motorcycle could definitely cause life threatening injury.

 

[supra229]

Water can drown a person too.

 

[Timmotheus]

Originally posted by supra229


Water can drown a person too.

Not through a helmet visor.

 

[supra229]

Originally posted by Timmotheus
Not through a helmet visor.

No I was laughing at the tsunami. Sorry.

 

[Squid]

hows the cop suposed to know what it was? it could have been pepper spray and if he didnt have the visor on he prolly would have crashed

 

[Solid Lifters]

So the cop pulls him over and he dosen't try to run away? If that is the case the cop knew it was just a stupid joke that wasn't seen as funny. The cop knew better than to spray something, that can kill someone actually, in the face without good justification to do so. What this cop did was a nasty trick and what I call assualt. The guy squirting the water was obviously just going for a joke.

Cops know the job is stressful, so if they can't hack it they should quit. If someone makes them angry, they have no right to assault them how they wish. This cop sounds like a violent thug. I say get rid of him, before he does something worse. He is just going to make his fellow officers look bad, and they will loose the trust of the public.

 

[milefile]

Just a bit of fun? Anyone who doesn't know better than to spray a cop with anything is a moron. The cop may have overreacted a bit, but the guy will live, and will probably never do anyting like that again. Also, if it's so hot, and people are frayed and tired of it, the cop must be, too... sitting outside all day, riding a hot motorcycle. Must be miserable. I would've done it, too.

 

[supra229]

This debate really isn't going anywhere maybe I should have picked a different story.

 

[TaiLo]

Okay, let's take the debate somewhere...

We need a few more details to make a good opinion, but from the looks of it, this guy did deserve to be pulled over and arrested (because it is assaulting an officer, or an infringement on a person's personal space, no matter if the victim was a cop or not). As for the pepper spray, however, that was a bit much. The way you put it supra229, the officer pulled him over and had the guy STOPPED. There was no need to use pepper spray at this point. There was no longer a danger.

A BIG discussion should be done on why the officer was allowed to use pepper spray on the guy. (What happened to the officer?) Yes, it was a "water pistol", but the officer knew it wasn't a real gun (since water came out). So the act of using a blinding weapon (pepper spray) on the culprit should not have been approved, if it was. I'd say the pistol would LOOK dangerous, but not after water comes out of it, so no argument there. You said it happened in London (or somewhere near there), so I don't exactly know all the laws. What is debatable would be what happened to the officer. Was he reprimanded or was he not even touched?

 

[Gil]

If the cop got sprayed full in the visor of his helmet, how was he to know the substance was not noxious in nature?
If he hadn't been wearing the visor he could have sustained serious injury, especially if the cop on the donor-cycle was moving at the time he was sprayed.
Any "attack" on an officer of the law is just plain stupid.
Would you bait an unchained Doberman pinscher, and not expect to get bitten? It you don't expect to get bitten, you are a delusional asshat.
If you bait a policeman, and expect to not be manhandled and arrested, you are a delusional asshat.
In the U.S. "play-guns" are supposed to be some color other than the color of a real gun. I don't know if that is the case in other countries.
The cop may have seen a real looking gun being pointed at him, and as a London cop, he went basically unarmed into harm's way and subdued, an armed felon, with nothing more potent than pepper spray. That officer is a hero in my book!!
Case Closed!!

 

[TaiLo]

When the guy got pepper sprayed, was he just sitting there, wherever he was, waiting for the cop to approach, or did the guy try to run away? That would determine whether the officer really HAD to use the pepper spray at such a large amount to subdue him. I mean, if the guy was trying to run away from the officer, then I'd agree with the rest of you, hands down. If not, that's another story.

 

[vat_man]

Well, either way - pretty damned stupid thing to do.

 

[supra229]

None of you get it, it wouldn't be in the news paper if it was just a routine arrest of some yob being stupid later to be released with a fine. This guy was pulled over and sprayed with pepperspray right after he had basically given himself up.

The cop got into trouble for over-reacting in that situation but of course wasn't fired as we are short of officers. The reason is because people have little respect for them, so nobody wants to become a police officer. And people have little respect for officers for a reason.

They never sort out small crimes only the ones that may get them a news paper story or more money like stopping speeding motorists, none of them can be bothered to crack down on petty thugs stealing from news agents. I no this because i used to skateboard in areas you weren't supposed to and officers would never enforce that as they couldn't be bothered so my friends and I got away with that, but there are things on a bigger scale that aren't sorted either.

 

[bengee]

It is wrong for an officer to use force when it is not needed. In this case an officer got pissed off and purposefully hurt a civilian becuase he held a more powerful position than the offender. This is clearly wrong. No matter how much the spraying of water may have startled the police officer or have been against the law, it does not the officer the right to unjust use force.

 

[Klostrophobic]

I think it completely justifies the officer decapitating the ****wit who sprayed water in his face. He didn't decapitate him, but at the very least he should have cut off one of his limbs.

 

[supra229]

Thank you Bengee, someone finally understands.

 

[Gil]

What you don't seem to understand is that in the US it is not uncommon for a routine traffic stop to turn into an armed altercation.
What if the squirt gun had been filled with acid? H2SO4 looks like water but is quite dangerous. If the officer caught up to the guy right away, all he's thinking is that this dude pulled a projectile weapon and fired an unknown substance at him.
He then subdued the subject with the only weapon available to him.
It may have been revenge, but trust me, when you are in an authority/law enforcement role you are the target of some pretty malicious stuff.
Stand Shore Patrol sometime. The contrast to Military Police is that you are "armed" with only a nightstick and you cannot hit anyone with that nightstick about the head and shoulders. You can strike limbs, but no more than 3 times, and that is the training you get. No "how to subdue a belligerent drunk, no how to protect yourself in the midst of a bar brawl that you have ben designated to stop. Try it some time and then give us your opinion of what the cop did. You are basing your opinion on the cops reaction. Think about his mind set for a moment. Then consider his reaction.

 

[supra229]

This is England not America we have batons not nightsticks. There is a reason for only allowing them to have three hits as it would cause injury which would take down a person which is satisfactory. Is anyone here a British Police officer or know of one? In England it is uncommon for someone to lash out with a real gun all of a sudden, there are people with guns but the laws are far tighter and its less likely to happen.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by bengee
It is wrong for an officer to use force when it is not needed. In this case an officer got pissed off and purposefully hurt a civilian becuase he held a more powerful position than the offender. This is clearly wrong. No matter how much the spraying of water may have startled the police officer or have been against the law, it does not the officer the right to unjust use force.

So what if he grabbed the guy by the arm and gave him a bruise? How about if his precious little writst were marred by handcuffs? C'mon people! It's pepper spray. So he stung for a few minutes. Big frickin' deal. Poor baby.

 

[Duke]

Exactly. There's a big difference between just spraying the guy and knocking him down, cuffing him, and then kicking him while he's cuffed. Which is what I'm sure the asshat truly deserved. I sincerely think the cop showed retraint.

 

[Gil]

Originally posted by supra229
This is England not America we have batons not nightsticks.

In England it is uncommon for someone to lash out with a real gun all of a sudden, there are people with guns but the laws are far tighter and its less likely to happen.

First of all a baton and a nightstick are virtually the same thing.
The difference can be likened to the same comparison as a Sledge Hammer handle and an Axe Handle.

You are still not taking the officer's mind set into account. If it's rare for someone to lash out with a fire arm, and you've just seen one brandished as if to shoot you, What is your mindset?

I guarantee that you aren't thinking "Oh joy, some bloke has just brandished a handgun, pointing it in my general direction. Isn't that neato?"

Seeing a gun in a "gunless" society, and deciding to go after the wielder with nothing but a "baton" and Pepper spray qualifies as bravery (or stupidity).
Seeing as it is the job of the copper to uphold Law and Order, I'll vote bravery, above and beyond the call of duty.
I have been on the "business end" of handguns before. Even the muzzle of a .25 ACP looks HUGE when you're looking into it. And take my word for it the muzzle of a .357 Magnum looks big enough for an entire suite of furniture.
The only thing I might have done diferently from him is to call for ARMED backup. But then, I'm a wuss when I'm out-gunned.

 

[bengee]

I am not saying handle him roughly, slap cuffs on him, and all of that general treatment. He doesnt deserve to be handled like a freaking princess, he broke the law so he has to deal with the general treatment that is given in normal arresting procedure. However, there is a line that cannot be crossed, and all treatment must be in response to the treatment the officer recieves during the arrest. If we start spraying all people with pepper spray who are obeying officers, then people who resist or run away should be shot and anyone with a weapon should be killed. Do you see my point? Fr ever action that a suspect gives a cop there is a proper level of reactance. Spraying the guy with peppr spray is like beating a man cause he is african american and you are a racist cop. Just cause you dont the like suspect or you are mad at him for some reason or another doesnt give a cop the right to hurt that individual who is at that time obeying the cop. However, if a threat exists, the cop has the right to threaten back (and take action if necessary).