Please bring back Performance Points or make BoP the default

[Voodoovaj]

I'm curious if anyone else feels the new "BoP" doesn't really do the job when it comes to N class cars?

I was actually excited with BoP was introduced, hoping it would be the cure for the PP system's failures, but, without it being the default, like PP was, most lobbies don't turn it on. The lobbies that do, often turn off tuning as well. Personally, I find this a GIANT barrier to fun in the lobbies because cars are either wide open and unbalanced, so you need to know the best car for the N class (and it's worse the the old PP scenario), or there's no tuning and that's not fun either.

Many I've spoken with don't like BoP because the weight is locked down and they prefer a lighter car. Fair enough, since a lighter car is often easier to deal with and feels better. The PP system had issues, especially with light cars, but at least there was flexibility there. You could play with the weight distribution, but that's gone now.

And then there's all the GR.X stuff that takes cool cars and renders them completely useless. Before you argue, it DOES make them useless because you can't car anyone from choosing another GR.X car. So, let's say you want a Racing Jacket race, someone will undoubtedly grab that stupid SRT thing. All the pace cars? Useless.

PP was, at least, consistent in that you could use any car, anywhere (if the host allowed). We simply wanted a "street car" class so we didn't have to argue over what was allowed and what wasn't. Now....it's just crappy. Never mind that BoP in the N classes isn't even very balanced. It's ok, but it's still not much better than PP was.

Personally, I'd like it added back in as an addition to BoP rather than either/or.

 

[Da_dietn]

You can set a maximum weight, and a maximum hp. So thats kinda like pp was in gt5 or 6. In gts theres no limit for downforce strenght.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

You can set a maximum weight, and a maximum hp. So thats kinda like pp was in gt5 or 6. In gts theres no limit for downforce strenght.

Not gonna work though. A McLaren 650S with the same power and weight as a 911 GT3 RS still has no chance against it
PP system is a good base to balance cars, and it just so happened that PD messed up the numbers in GT6. I like to see the PP system again though, because it's much much better than the N classes we have right now. Just hoping they don't mess up the numbers again when reimplementing this

Now that I think about it, the classes and PP system can work together, so that's a plus (600pp Gr. 3, or 450pp N300)

 

[Mr Satay]

Power to weight ratio would be a great starting point, I dont know why this was never used since there are a few cars that are either way too good or really slow in their given N class.

 

[KingFrog]

BOP is not a scale system like PP was, its designed to be hand-tuned. In the beta PD adjusted the N300 BOP and actually balanced the class, The lancer/Evora were popular but you could keep up with the other cars.
The issue at hand is the fact PD has to HAND TUNE GR 1/3/4/b and the TEN GrN classes
So PD has to balance 14 CLASSES and the beta only really balanced GR 4/3/N300.
THE FATAL FLAW is some idiot decided to allow cars to be tuned/detuned INTO another class . We all know PD stopped having open N classes after people discovered you could Detune the M4 into N 300 ( and the game would set its BOP for N 300) . that means if N 300 has 15 cars ( i know that numbers wrong) PD has to balance them out. Since you can add non native Gr300 cars in, Pd has to hand tune 20 more cars that could fit into N300. that means an M4 would have a N300/400/500/600 BOP . That's basically four unique cars .N classes should be locked like GR4/3 . IF BOP is on it should only allow NATIVE N class cars in. You can't run GR3 against 4 and you shouldn't be able to run a BOP adjusted GR 500 car against a BOP adjusted GR 400 car. PD should just lock the classes

 

[snowgt]

In principle the N-classes are a good idea. The problem is that presently the only factor determining which class a car is in, is power. That means that some cars just don’t fit with the rest, like the X-Bow, the S-FR Racing Concept or the Raptor.

One step to make it better would be to change that to power/weight ratio. You could then make a BoP that could actually work.

However, that’s a lot of work, so I don’t see PD putting in the time before the FIA championship is on the way...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Now that I think about it, the classes and PP system can work together, so that's a plus (600pp Gr. 3, or 450pp N300)

They absolutely could.

Also, by taking the 5 parameters of a car, you could do a better job of automating the BoP and even the PP system. Rather than manually adjusting BoP across an entire class, the calculation can run at the beginning of each race and be variable based on the cars that have entered the race.

I think have PP running along side the classes, and even BoP would be a big step forward.

In principle the N-classes are a good idea. The problem is that presently the only factor determining which class a car is in, is power. That means that some cars just don’t fit with the rest, like the X-Bow, the S-FR Racing Concept or the Raptor.

One step to make it better would be to change that to power/weight ratio. You could then make a BoP that could actually work.

However, that’s a lot of work, so I don’t see PD putting in the time before the FIA championship is on the way...

I agree 100%

 

[Alpha Cipher]

They absolutely could.

Also, by taking the 5 parameters of a car, you could do a better job of automating the BoP and even the PP system. Rather than manually adjusting BoP across an entire class, the calculation can run at the beginning of each race and be variable based on the cars that have entered the race.

I think have PP running along side the classes, and even BoP would be a big step forward.



I agree 100%

For the BoP system I was thinking recently of a similar system, where instead of dynamic BoP based on the other cars like you said, this system would instead BoP cars based on the track they're in. And now that you mention an automated BoP system that works hand-in-hand with PP+Class, the BoP-by-track system, just like your BoP-by-car system, isn't really all that far-fetched

 

[Voodoovaj]

For the BoP system I was thinking recently of a similar system, where instead of dynamic BoP based on the other cars like you said, this system would instead BoP cars based on the track they're in. And now that you mention an automated BoP system that works hand-in-hand with PP+Class, the BoP-by-track system, just like your BoP-by-car system, isn't really all that far-fetched

The only issue with BoP by track is that there's no data to draw from. It would be a monumental task to store lap times and determine a proper median for each car.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

The only issue with BoP by track is that there's no data to draw from. It would be a monumental task to store lap times and determine a proper median for each car.

Fair point. At least with BoP against other cars the game knows the metrics and can adjust accordingly. If there's anything off with the calculations PD's manual interference would be minimal at best. Honestly I think your BoP-by-car system is better in terms of efficiency, it just so happened that I thought of a similar system

 

[Rinsky]

Right now you think they could immediately put a stop to higher N-Class cars getting into a race with lower N-Class cars. That should be a very quick and easy thing to do.
Just lock the power and weight when no tuning is turned on.
Then start working on a better balancing system for our N-Class cars.

It's only really going to work on based on stock settings. Tuning in GTS is nothing like GT6 at all and your not going to get a N-300 car up to N-600 and make it handle like an F1 car anymore. Making suspension adjustments have very little effect on performance gains as they once did and things have changed to a more realistic tuning environment. Tuning is now more of a fine tune adjustment rather than a tool that makes your car a lot faster over the stock settings. So a stock suspension setup on a N-400 car is almost as good as a fully tuned setup on the same N-400 car.

 

[pedrocor]

The PP system should be the first step.

Not foul proof but largely better then the N power output only based.
Even not considering the fact that cars can be uptuned or downtuned to fit several classes, the cars in their base class sometimes are too apart to work it out.
How do you tune an SRT Hellcat to be on pair with a McLaren 650S, an Aventador or a Enzo Ferrari, on the N700 class?
Or a Corvette C3 to pair it with a KTM X Bow no N300?

Just to big of a mess. Of course PP doesn't solve all of it, GT6 seasonals are the proof of that, but it would be far closer, for sure.

Also a BoP would be increasingly more difficult as the car count is increasing. At the moment there are 82 N class cars distributed by 9 classes, so 9 BoPs with an average of 9 cars each. Considering many cars can be tuned to several classes, it would be about 20 cars each class on average, but speccially the N400, N500, N600 and N700 could have 30+ models each, I guess.
And fortunatly the car count is slow but steadly increasing.

 

[KingFrog]

PP is not a balance system
BOP is .

N300 means 250-349 hp
N300 with BOP adjusted should take every N 300 car and make balanced . The xbow wouldn't be OP if PD balanced the class it was in right . I think that's why they are running one makes to get data on individual cars

 

[Sander 001]

Why does the GT3 class of cars need BoP anyway? Didn’t the FIA balance them already?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Why does the GT3 class of cars need BoP anyway? Didn’t the FIA balance them already?

Iirc the stats on the cars we have right now is the stock values
Also BoP constantly changes in the FIA, rebalancing the cars almost on a per-race basis; PD will be left behind with that kind of BoP. Not to mention cases like these...