PMC - Week 134 - Poll

[Nicknamealguem]

GT4 Photo Mode Competition

Week 134 Poll

Theme: Phototravel

• Do NOT vote for your own entry.
• Have confidence in your own photo and don't try to sway the poll.

​

 

[GrumpEone]

The top 10, poll system doesn't work well, there are 3 entries that are better than a few of the shots in the poll. I keep seeing this trend, it seems shots that get a lot of comments keep getting snubbed from these polls. Quite frankly this is why ppl grow bored with the comps, and stop coming around with entries. Then you all wonder why you get periods of having a hard time filling 10 in a poll. Why enter, if you a just going to get snubbed; in this case one person eliminated 11 ppl, rather than having the voters decide who has the best shot, the one choosing the poll decides who doesn't.
IMO all the shots need to be in these polls, and let the field decide. I am only speaking up because this needs to be changed if you guys want newer ppl, to keep submitting entries, and stay around awhile. Or you can keep the old system, and run into months where you have a hard time filling a poll.

BTW- Swiss' Shot is easily better than 3 of the shots in the poll- a blind man could see that!

 

[Melaneimoon]

The top 10, poll system doesn't work well, there are 3 entries that are better than a few of the shots in the poll. I keep seeing this trend, it seems shots that get a lot of comments keep getting snubbed from these polls. Quite frankly this is why ppl grow bored with the comps, and stop coming around with entries. Then you all wonder why you get periods of having a hard time filling 10 in a poll. Why enter, if you a just going to get snubbed; in this case one person eliminated 11 ppl, rather than having the voters decide who has the best shot, the one choosing the poll decides who doesn't.
IMO all the shots need to be in these polls, and let the field decide. I am only speaking up because this needs to be changed if you guys want newer ppl, to keep submitting entries, and stay around awhile. Or you can keep the old system, and run into months where you have a hard time filling a poll.

I agree, but maybe you should start a new thread about this?

 

[GrumpEone]

I agree, but maybe you should start a new thread about this?

Good Idea, Maybe I'll do it after work, if I'm not working 12hrs, again.

 

[Beerz]

There was already a full thread with a poll about this subject, not that long ago, not much came out of it.

Imo, best thing is to let each comp's host to decide what they want for each separate comp.
No poll (everyone has a chance to be voted for), 10 poll with theme provider choosing who makes it, variable according to the number of submissions that week... There's plenty to choose from.


On topic, I liked quite a few shots, but my vote went to the Fiat Barchetta. Perfect composition with the stripes on the tarmac, car looks stunning in silver and the reflections look great.
Excellent b/c work too, great shot. 👍

 

[alexwrc]

The rules need and upgrade, as Beerz said, this is a very long story actually. People have been using not allowed tools for months or years... and so on.

The 10 limit was a reasonable rule when comps reached dozens of entries in the past.

Salu2.alexwrc

 

[Swiss Legend]

BTW- Swiss' Shot is easily better than 3 of the shots in the poll- a blind man could see that!

Thanks GrumpEone!!!! I'm flattered.

The rules need and upgrade, as Beerz said, this is a very long story actually. People have been using not allowed tools for months or years... and so on.

The 10 limit was a reasonable rule when comps reached dozens of entries in the past.

Salu2.alexwrc

I can see why the rule is there, other wise we'd have potential tie breaker polls for weeks.
And there have been comps (very recently) where you can obviously see that more editing was done than allowed, and nothing is done about it. sucks.

Personally I'm saddened that my shot didn't make the top ten (first time ever) ......

 

[Beerz]

And there have been comps (very recently) where you can obviously see that more editing was done than allowed, and nothing is done about it. sucks.

Well, did you (or anyone else) said anything about it? Did you point that out at the time? Did you even ask that person (or those persons) what tools/filters/etc they used on the shot and how they got certain result?
I'm betting no. Which doesn't make you look that good now, because whenever someone wants things to be transparent, they want it always. Not just when they feel left aside by those or other reasons.
From now on, don't be afraid to speak up whenever you have doubts about a certain shot. But don't go accusing others of cheating before you ask.

About your shot:
Art is subjective. Always has, always will be.
I also think your Speedster looks better than some other shots, but everyone has different tastes. Don't try to change that. Won't happen.
There's no right or wrong on that subject. 👍

 

[gibson]

that S-type shot is incredible! looks like its at a dealer the way it's sitting

 

[Swiss Legend]

Well, did you (or anyone else) said anything about it? Did you point that out at the time? Did you even ask that person (or those persons) what tools/filters/etc they used on the shot and how they got certain result?
I'm betting no. Which doesn't make you look that good now, because whenever someone wants things to be transparent, they want it always.

I did say something actually, I thought that Franz shot had a blur filter. He told me it was all in game and his method. I left it at that. (I think his shot is awesome btw). In my previous post I wasn't referring to his shot. ( just so ppl know)

There was also un-edited wk 21 where I thought a shot was edited, and said it-nicely, but nothing happened (if I was supposed to actually complain I didn't know, am I supposed to PM the host?)

About your shot:
Art is subjective. Always has, always will be.
I also think your Speedster looks better than some other shots, but everyone has different tastes. Don't try to change that. Won't happen.
There's no right or wrong on that subject. 👍

Thanks for the compliment 👍
I don't want anyone to think I was whining about not getting in the top ten, which I wasn't, I was just voicing that I didn't make the top ten for the first time. (time for me to be more original)

I think I should've worded that last post better. I suppose I was being a little ignorant in saying that. I am still learning photoshop myself and learned that you can do a lot with simply adjusting lighting,contrast and gamma etc. I didn't mean to imply cheating.

 

[Megasoft Office]

Any bonus points for untampered shots?

 

[GT Pro]

I don't usually like to complain about this sort of thing but I am amazed at how I did not get in to the polls. To be honest to myself, the overall composure of the image is near-perfect:

#17

Any tips on why it didn't get in? I need some help here.​

 

[jgda9rs]

that's a very good question. it's better than mine so it makes me wonder too.

 

[jinjinweiwei]

I would vote your picture GT Pro

 

[GrumpEone]

My whole point here, is to try to instigate a little change, to make the comps better, and draw more entries by people actually staying around to enter comps. consistently.

Why do people, stick around for a few comps, and then only occasionally enter a comp?? When you actually take the time to put in a good entry, and you are not in the poll, it gets annoying, even if there are 10 shots better than yours. Also, it makes the time you took getting the shot you wanted, feel almost like a waste of time, just because 1 person, doesn't like your shot, or has a grudge against you, or even doesn't like a particular car.

I already have been snubbed from a few polls, where I had easily a top 5 shot, and most definitely a top 10. And I have seen it happen to many others too, Swiss is just the latest victim. Did I mention his entry was a definite Top 10 shot this comp??

There was already a full thread with a poll about this subject, not that long ago, not much came out of it.

So what, never bring it up?? So, forget about all the new faces in these comps over the last month or so?? Not everyone who comes around here, checks out every single thread, some can easily fall through the cracks. It is about time to re-address this issue!

Imo, best thing is to let each comp's host to decide what they want for each separate comp.
No poll (everyone has a chance to be voted for), 10 poll with theme provider choosing who makes it, variable according to the number of submissions that week... There's plenty to choose from.

A good host, keeps people coming back to their comps, and gives EVERYONE a chance to win. And that is regardless of how good or bad a shot is, 0 votes in a poll is better than not being in the poll at all.

The rules need and upgrade, as Beerz said, this is a very long story actually. People have been using not allowed tools for months or years... and so on.
The 10 limit was a reasonable rule when comps reached dozens of entries in the past.

Reasonable Rule? Is it really?? I would much rather have a poll with 30 cool shots to vote for, than 10!! That sounds more like a host tring to be lazy about copy & pasting a poll, and not wanting to do a tie breaker poll too.

Thanks GrumpEone!!!! I'm flattered.
I can see why the rule is there, other wise we'd have potential tie breaker polls for weeks...

Hey you need some kind of recognition, that was I good shot (I think I've said that before...lol).

There are ways to keep the polls to a minimum, I am trying to experiment on the best poll system through our Scenery Competition. I figure that because of it's specificity the Scenery Comp, it will die out soon, so it makes a great testing grounds (thanks jgda9rs) for finding what works in these comps.

...Art is subjective. Always has, always will be.
I also think your Speedster looks better than some other shots, but everyone has different tastes. Don't try to change that. Won't happen.
There's no right or wrong on that subject. 👍

Art can be subjective, which is why 1 person should not decide who goes in the polls. Actually there are technical aspects of Art, Graphics, and Photography that makes one artwork better than another, but I have noticed that doesn't really apply around here with most of the voters.

I don't usually like to complain about this sort of thing but I am amazed at how I did not get in to the polls. To be honest to myself, the overall composure of the image is near-perfect:
Any tips on why it didn't get in? I need some help here.[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]

Your shot was one of three that I figured should have been in the poll too. It had excellent Eye Movement, pretty good Color Balance, a very nice Background, and good lighting. The only thing I didn't like about it was, the Focal Point is the Lamp Post, and not the Car.

 

[Muzaffar]

Look, I know some of you guys think there are some shots which could have made it into the top 10, but in the end of the day, someone has to pick 10 out of the dozens of entries. Its hard to choose shots which may look good to you, but bad to others (or the other way around) I think NTX1982 did a good job of posting the top 10. 👍

Swiss Legend: Yeah, I felt the same way as well. Like NTX1982's UEC W22 entry as well as tapetape's double entry came into mind. But of course, its up to the host and judges to decide whether it is within the rules or not.....

 

[GrumpEone]

Look, I know some of you guys think there are some shots which could have made it into the top 10, but in the end of the day, someone has to pick 10 out of the dozens of entries. Its hard to choose shots which may look good to you, but bad to others (or the other way around) I think NTX1982 did a good job of posting the top 10. 👍

There doesn't have to be just 10, the voters should be able to vote for their favorite shot!

 

[alexwrc]

No ofense, but if someone can't be in the top 10, rarely will win the competition. That doesn't mean I'll agree with the top 10 method or selected photos.

Another thing is the interest of creating a noob competition for everyone, wich may be a great idea. I just want to reemember we've got the 2.0, PMC and un-editted comps. The rest are the same but with very restrictive themes, wich can be also used in the previous ones, and don't give any solution to the problems.

Salu2.alexwrc

 

[Mic_Col]

The 10 limit was a reasonable rule when comps reached dozens of entries in the past.

Some of the Comps I've seen lately are having trouble getting 10 entries. They only go to 12 or 13, surely all of those could be in the poll.

Although in saying that, I checked the original thread PMC week 134, there were 21 images posted for this comp, which is quite a few.

Despite that I still side with those saying we should put all entries in the poll.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

I knew this was going to happen. It is not the first time it happened.
Well, in the past, when I was more noob than I am now (I am still a noob), I used to be against the top10 poll system.
Now I have a kindly different opinion. I am not in favor of the top 10 poll system, but neither totally against the top 10.
No, it isn’t because I am lazy to copy/paste the codes into poll, you can see that the Artistic Competition has NO top 10.

Here is the threat Beerz was talking about.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=97827
I know, I know…I said I was totally against the top 10 poll system, but there were some valid points on the thread, that can be seen in this thread:

I was just voicing that I didn't make the top ten for the first time. (time for me to be more original).

That’s the spirit, never give up, if you are not in the top 10, that means you have to do it better next time. I didn’t get upset when I got left out of the PMC last week poll, even though redhawk mentioned (2 times actually) that was a good and cool shot.

Another reason why I kept the top 10 in this competition, was because I didn’t want to change the format of the competition. I am not the original host of it, I didn’t invented the rules, so I didn’t feel the right to change them. The top 10 worked through 13x weeks.

I think some rules should be changed, but maybe we (competition hosts) should have a private discussion about some of the rules of the competitions (mainly the PMC and the 2.0).

 

[Pebb]

After a great start for me in the voting, it has gone down hill for me. Oh well, maybe there is always next time.

 

[Slick6]

I am not the original host of it, I didn’t invented the rules, so I didn’t feel the right to change them. The top 10 worked through 13x weeks.

Actually the first week, there was no limit on the number of entries and I had 50+ entries. By the second week I made the Imageshack hosting a requirement to keep the polls neat and pictures the same size. People were posting 1024x768 shots on the first poll and some had pictures sized 400x300, it just looked messy and unprofessional. The limit rule of 20 started in week 5. It later then dropped to 10 when there was a period of limited activity. It seems in the last month or so there has been a little boost in participants, but I don't know if the limit should be bumped up again because this little burst will probably die down again.

I also submitted an entry this last week that I thought was pretty mediocre. I didn't make it to the top 10, but I'll try again this week. For those saying that it's not fair, it very well may not be, but such is life and sometimes you've got to roll with it and try harder. Best of luck to everyone in this and future polls.

 

[atlop]

To answer some UEC stuff that was posted here...

There was also un-edited wk 21 where I thought a shot was edited, and said it-nicely, but nothing happened (if I was supposed to actually complain I didn't know, am I supposed to PM the host?)

Well you were not quite clear whether you actually thought the shot was edited. I did take a look though and could not see anything wrong in the shot. Perhaps would have been better to PM me about it if you felt something was wrong. Still, I do think the shot was ok.

Swiss Legend: Yeah, I felt the same way as well. Like NTX1982's UEC W22 entry ....

This one was well discussed back then and rules changed accordingly.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Wow, why am I not surprised with this...

My whole point here, is to try to instigate a little change, to make the comps better, and draw more entries by people actually staying around to enter comps. consistently.

It's questionable if you'd really be doing this if you were making polls consistently.

Why do people, stick around for a few comps, and then only occasionally enter a comp?? When you actually take the time to put in a good entry, and you are not in the poll, it gets annoying, even if there are 10 shots better than yours. Also, it makes the time you took getting the shot you wanted, feel almost like a waste of time, just because 1 person, doesn't like your shot, or has a grudge against you, or even doesn't like a particular car.

Personally, I only occasionally enter comps now because my interest in GT is a lot lower than it was before. That and there's a lot less opportunities to be as creative as we could be back in the day, before a lot of things had been done to death (artificial blur just as one example). There were a handful of times I didn't make poll in all my PMC entries... did I get bothered? No, I figured I needed to try harder the next week. If people get annoyed when they make a shot and don't make poll, then this whole "it's for fun" motto you've tried before is bogus. So say you start getting in the poll every week, but never win. Is it still a waste of time, is it annoying? I thought it was all for fun?

I already have been snubbed from a few polls, where I had easily a top 5 shot, and most definitely a top 10. And I have seen it happen to many others too, Swiss is just the latest victim. Did I mention his entry was a definite Top 10 shot this comp??

What happened to being your own hardest critic? For the nth time, art is subjective. You may think your shots are peerless, others don't. It happens.

So what, never bring it up?? So, forget about all the new faces in these comps over the last month or so?? Not everyone who comes around here, checks out every single thread, some can easily fall through the cracks. It is about time to re-address this issue!

It has come up a lot more than once, and it's very usually by people who believe their shots are so good that nobody else realizes it. Sore losers? I'm not saying excellent shots (in my opinion) have missed polls before, because they definitely have. But it's been up to the theme chooser for a long time, and if they don't think something deserves to be there, then that's how it is. I think it's fair; if it's my theme, I should be able to say which shots fit my personal view of said theme.

A good host, keeps people coming back to their comps, and gives EVERYONE a chance to win. And that is regardless of how good or bad a shot is, 0 votes in a poll is better than not being in the poll at all.

So we should allow every person who wanders into a thread and posts an unedited, un-resized entry, that doesn't follow the theme, into the poll, for fear of annoying them? I don't see why it should be up to the comp runner to make everyone happy as opposed to the entrants putting some effort in.

Reasonable Rule? Is it really?? I would much rather have a poll with 30 cool shots to vote for, than 10!! That sounds more like a host tring to be lazy about copy & pasting a poll, and not wanting to do a tie breaker poll too.

Like I said, theme chooser gets to have a say in what shots best match his theme. It's not perfect, but it makes for less tie-breakers, which means the weeks can continue on quickly. Just in H2H, we've had one week go to three tie-breakers. On the third tie, the deciding factor was the theme chooser's personal vote. It gets very time-consuming.

There are ways to keep the polls to a minimum, I am trying to experiment on the best poll system through our Scenery Competition. I figure that because of it's specificity the Scenery Comp, it will die out soon, so it makes a great testing grounds (thanks jgda9rs) for finding what works in these comps.

I'm genuinely curious, I'll have to keep my eye on it.

Art can be subjective, which is why 1 person should not decide who goes in the polls. Actually there are technical aspects of Art, Graphics, and Photography that makes one artwork better than another, but I have noticed that doesn't really apply around here with most of the voters.

I'm not so sure. Moglet obviously knew a fair amount about the technical side of art, and unsurprisingly he kicked ass in a lot of polls. Tabs, Alpha, Alex and Franz also come to mind. I like to think that even if most people haven't studied art, an inherently right picture usually does very well here, because it appeals to people regardless of their knowledge. But for the sake of the argument; since you notice it doesn't really apply around here, for most people, should I complain if I don't win a poll against what I see to be an inferior shot? I mean, as art is subjective, a poll isn't the answer either. 3 people say Shot A is good, but 2 say Shot B. Are they wrong simply because there's less of them?

Your shot was one of three that I figured should have been in the poll too. It had excellent Eye Movement, pretty good Color Balance, a very nice Background, and good lighting. The only thing I didn't like about it was, the Focal Point is the Lamp Post, and not the Car.

I liked the shot too, but if it was NTX' decision, I guess he didn't. Maybe it's the poorly textured lampost, which admittedly isn't GT Pro's fault, but as that is the focal point, people are going to notice it that much more, and the community has always tried to minimize the aspects of GT that don't hold up to next-gen systems. It could be a bunch of things.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the whole "everyone's a winner" attitude people want is not going to work. Yeah, nobody likes exclusion, but the fact is these are competitions, and you have to draw the line somewhere. There will be losers each week, dedicate the effort complaining about it to next week's entry instead.

(Trying to be a bit more constructive than previously).

 

[Megasoft Office]

Competitions using a first-come, first-serve rationale would have avoided this furore over exclusion altogether.

 

[[empty space]]

"http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7230/img0027tp8.jpgAny tips on why it didn't get in? I need some help here.​

this is just my opinion and since im not the judge its just my opinion. but, theres the light post right there in your face and then theres a car in the backround. the light post really draws your eye away from the car and that hurts the picture imho.

and, on a more selfish note ... wow! my best chance at winning the big one finally

[edit - to the reply above mine. erm ... no. it can take time to get just the right shot.]

 

[Swiss Legend]

That’s the spirit, never give up, if you are not in the top 10, that means you have to do it better next time. I didn’t get upset when I got left out of the PMC last week poll, even though redhawk mentioned (2 times actually) that was a good and cool shot.
Another reason why I kept the top 10 in this competition, was because I didn’t want to change the format of the competition. I am not the original host of it, I didn’t invented the rules, so I didn’t feel the right to change them. The top 10 worked through 13x weeks.
I think some rules should be changed, but maybe we (competition hosts) should have a private discussion about some of the rules of the competitions (mainly the PMC and the 2.0).

Yup. Like I said, I'm not bitter at all that i didn't make the top ten. The shots that are in there definitely deserve it.

Maybe some things should change with the polls. It's crazy how many people will enter 2-3 comps and then leave. But that's they're problem if they don't like it. Maybe they should give some input before just quitting.

I also submitted an entry this last week that I thought was pretty mediocre. I didn't make it to the top 10, but I'll try again this week. For those saying that it's not fair, it very well may not be, but such is life and sometimes you've got to roll with it and try harder. Best of luck to everyone in this and future polls.

Word, my thoughts exactly!

To answer some UEC stuff that was posted here...
Well you were not quite clear whether you actually thought the shot was edited. I did take a look though and could not see anything wrong in the shot. Perhaps would have been better to PM me about it if you felt something was wrong. Still, I do think the shot was ok.

Yeah, back then I didn't really think it was my place to complain, that if something was wrong, the host would catch it. I guess it was a quirk to being new. I know I can speak up when I need to now. 👍
We have to remember that this is for FUN! If there are issues we don't need to get defensive or pissed off and rip into people. Let's keep this fun!

Competitions using a first-come, first-serve rationale would have avoided this furore over exclusion altogether.

That would piss off so many people. Imagine putting a lot of time into your photo to find out that so other guy undercut you for the final entry spot, wouldn't you bee pissed off?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Competitions using a first-come, first-serve rationale would have avoided this furore over exclusion altogether.

Seriously?

 

[SolidStradale]

So can just anyone get in on this? If so I'd like to give it a shot. It seems there is a different theme for each comp. and a playoff like system where the ten best get voted on. Are there any rules?(size, numper of entries, alteration of entry through outside programs, duration of competition)

 

[Slick6]

SolidStradale, welcome to GTP, actually welcome to posting on GTP as you've been here a few years. Yes, you most definately can participate. This post here was from Week 134 which displays all of the rules, etc. Week 135 has not been put up yet, but when it is, that is where you post your entry. Their is generally a theme that you have to follow. Everyone basically posts their entries in the main thread, and at the end of the week, whomever is selecting the top 10 will browse that thread and notify the competition host of their selection which will then be made into a poll thread like this.

You can look at this thread here, which is last week's, to get an idea of how it works.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2905586

If you have any questions, please don't be afraid to PM me.