Poll: Shifting at redline vs by ear

[AlexDB9]

I was curious to what other people do when changing gears. I was driving the Civic Type-R the other day and there was quite a difference between redline and audio cues that the engine could rev past redline, and indeed I was faster that way, that is shifting by ear. Is that common sense applicable to all cars, or depends on a car-to-car basis? As I drive in cockpit view with no HUD your aid would be most helpful.

 

[Veinz]

I always shift by ear when I get used to the engine tone.

 

[RotorHed]

Well the best method is to trade off the torque of the current gear vs the max torque of the next gear.

But that varies by Car/transmission etc so it’s not always the redline.

I imagine the shift indicators in most cars are preprogrammed to optimal but that’s by no means certain.

 

[JacksHerer]

In PSVR I think some of the cars gauges display different to the 'games' redline.

 

[DatNoiseV12]

Always by ear.

 

[Robben]

We know that the M4 doesn't need to go to the redline following the threads in the past couple of days... also @FKAustria1911 said the same with Supra... you can maintain power even shifting early.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Look at the power curve, find the best shifting point on track, learn the sound and then shift by ear.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

By ear. The redline can help, but during a race there's so many factors to pay attention to that it's hard to look at the redline, even through the peripherals

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Guessing it's either/or if you're blind/deaf.

 

[TheGeologist]

I always shift by ear. Where the Viper Gr4 redlines and where the engine actually peaks are far different. The redline peaks far too soon

 

[John Crellin]

I use the visual cues on the rev bar. I dont always wait for it to top (flash blue) or hit the red line on the tachometer. Where the optimal rpms are is obviously car dependent, but its second nature now to monitor my revs out of the corner of my eye.

 

[vvise]

I always shift by ear. Where the Viper Gr4 redlines and where the engine actually peaks are far different. The redline peaks far too soon

whoaaaa i shift this car when the bar begins to fill, totally opposite of you. This car has an early power band, peak torque is 5000RPM. The shift bar fill starts around 5,500 and is full around 6,250RPM, you're shifting closer to 6,500-7,000RPM. That's way past the power. Plus the fuel burn rate is way up.

 

[marcvic]

I go by ear - there are certain points that the power/torque curve may dip, but to hear an engine wail a bit more is totally worth it IMO (I also don't do too much online racing, so I don't worry too much about loss of potential time).

Sometimes I get too engrossed in the sound and bounce off the rev limiter though

 

[MatskiMonk]

As has been pointed out, optimal shift point relates to power and torque curves. It's not really anything to do with the redline, unless the engine happens to make peak power at the red line... which I don't think they are designed to do.

 

[TheGeologist]

whoaaaa i shift this car when the bar begins to fill, totally opposite of you. This car has an early power band, peak torque is 5000RPM. The shift bar fill starts around 5,500 and is full around 6,250RPM, you're shifting closer to 6,500-7,000RPM. That's way past the power. Plus the fuel burn rate is way up.

NO WONDER I KEEP RUNNING OUT OF FUEL AT SUZUKA. GAH. Thank you so much!!!

 

[Koutch_Pro]

By ear after getting used to the car/ track combo,,

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I probably use a combination of both visual and audio. Some cars like to shift earlier some later but I'll usually shift relative to the sound before the red band appears or late after I see the red appear in my periphery.

Everyone brings up great points about the power band, I need to definitely review and optimize my shift timing.

 

[John Crellin]

NO WONDER I KEEP RUNNING OUT OF FUEL AT SUZUKA. GAH. Thank you so much!!!

You just now came to this conclusion?
I read that thread you made about this. IIRC almost everybody pointed out how high you let your revs get, and suggested that you short shift

 

[TheGeologist]

You just now came to this conclusion?
I read that thread you made about this. IIRC almost everybody pointed out how high you let your revs get, and suggested that you short shift

I didn't think it was that bad though... I didn't think my shifting was causing me to lose speed and fuel

 

[John Crellin]

I didn't think it was that bad though... I didn't think my shifting was causing me to lose speed and fuel

Yep, the Viper has 12 large-bore cylinders, the volume of the cylinder heads is directly proportional to your fuel burn rate,

higher RPMs = more times that the cylinders fill with fuel per minute = more fuel burned per minute.

Edit: viper has 10 cylinders not 12.

 

[FKAustria1911]

I dunno what you people are talking about here?
Shift by redline or by ear?
What about simply checking the power diagram in car settings?
The most obvious example is the M4, the HP is at the max with a flat line over a range of 2000 RPM and as the gears are quite close together you can shift anywhere if you make sure that after shifting you stay in this range.
And just forget the torque curve, I still don‘t know why people mention torque when talking about cars, this must be one of the biggest urban legends around. The only thing that matters is the HP at a given RPM.

 

[MatskiMonk]

And just forget the torque curve, I still don‘t know why people mention torque when talking about cars, this must be one of the biggest urban legends around. The only thing that matters is the HP at a given RPM.

You don't really understand the relationship between Power and torque, do you?

 

[AlexDB9]

HP is how fast you will hit the front opponent, torque is how far you will push him/her.

 

[FKAustria1911]

You don't really understand the relationship between Power and torque, do you?

Sure I do, that is exactly why I said it is a completely pointless number.
What matters is how much HP you have at 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000,... RPM, not how much torque you have.
Torque may be an important input factor to the formula that determines HP, but what matters in the end is HP, not torque.

A high max. torque *may* be an indicator that the engine has more power at lower RPMs than other engines, but in the end what counts is how much HP you have at what RPM level and not what the max. torque is.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Sure I do, ...
What matters is how much HP you have at 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000,... RPM, not how much torque you have.

HP = Torque * RPMs / 5252. Think about that for a minute if you're claiming all that matters is Horsepower at a given RPM, and that torque is pointless...

 

[Lion-Face]

I've always understood it that you shift for power and not torque for maximum speed. Generally I have found the redline is set at the optimum point of power output, so I shift at the redline, there are a few exceptions. If I am saving fuel I won't shift at the redline. I always use the numbers or the rev bar to shift at a certain point, rarely do it by ear.

 

[Animera]

Neither, I change gears depending on where I am on track and which gear is more efficient.
Example: There are many turns where staying in a higher gear is optimal, and there are many turns where short shifting is optimal.

 

[FKAustria1911]

HP = Torque * RPMs / 5252. Think about that for a minute if you're claiming all that matters is Horsepower at a given RPM, and that torque is pointless...

Yes your formula is correct, but what is your point?

When the flood is coming I need a wall that is strong enough to withstand it. Yes the bricks are stronger than wood, but five layers of wood will be stronger than two layers of bricks.
When the flood is coming do you care about whether the wall is made of bricks or wood, or rather how strong the wall is?

You say "yay, my wall is made of bricks", I say "yay, my wall is strong enough".

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I shift at redline, by ear. I learn what the engine sounds like at redline and then shift when it gets to that sound so I can keep my eyes on the road.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Yes your formula is correct, but what is your point?

When the flood is coming I need a wall that is strong enough to withstand it. Yes the bricks are stronger than wood, but five layers of wood will be stronger than two layers of bricks.
When the flood is coming do you care about whether the wall is made of bricks or wood, or rather how strong the wall is?

You say "yay, my wall is made of bricks", I say "yay, my wall is strong enough".

Actually, I say "I'm glad I live on top of a hill"... I also say "What the **** are you going on about?" this isn't a situation that needs analogies - if you think you can make a point then you can 100% make it by applying physics directly to the situation at hand... I'm not an expert so I'm happy to be corrected, but I'd rather be corrected by someone who can apply physics to the situation at hand, not someone applying ******** to an irrelevant analogy.