Possible New Driving Stand...

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penguinrc

13
Hello Guys..

I am posting this because I have been developing a new Driving stand that I am thinking about selling and would like some feedback regarding it.. It is in the preliminary stages but I have been running a personal prototype of it for a while now.. probably about 6 months off and on...

This would be my first foray into marketing something like this as it is different from my normal business which is making aftermarket Carbon Fiber parts for R/C cars.

I got the Idea for this when the GT5 Time trials were going on as I wanted something small and stable to use that could be put to the side and out of the way easily and it also had to withstand the force of the G25 that I had just got.. I was using a Heavy TV Table at first and the G25 would just lift it off the ground (mmmm a little hard to drive that way.)

So here is what I came up with. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as I am currently debating on whether to continue with the project or not as it requires a bit of capital to get it going...

So... to let you guys know a little about it.. I have decided to call it "The Podium" and you can see why by the picture.. it sort of looks like a podium.

Base features currently include:
Steal base, post, and top construction weighing around 15lbs. so it is quite sturdy.
Adjustible Height - so that it can be used with different chairs or sofas.
It would come disassembled but would only require approx 4 screws to put the standard base together.
Steering wheel can be left on it for storage. it is only the depth of the wheel itself so it can fit into a closet or somewhere easily.

I decided that the Gearbox tray would be optional as I don't think everyone has a G25/27 that would be using this.. The tray is actually fairly complex and is made out of a 3/16" Plate with strengthening supports to keep it from moving during use.. The tray can be mounted for either Left Or Right hand Gearbox set-ups..

In figuring the base stand would probably run about $100 and the stand with the Gearbox would probably be about $135 or so..

The design of it is extremely stable side to side which of course is what is needed to withstand the heavy force feedback of the G25/27 but because of the slim design it is not quite as stable front to rear but it is still for me really good.. It has actually caused me to get less force full with the shifting because of this which has made me a hole lot better at driving with the manual as it does tilt slightly when you push on it or shift hard

Anyway let me know what you guys think and if you think it is a viable product that I should pursue possible producing this thing further.

Thank you,
Brion Sohn

OK so the picture didn't load (guess I don't know how).... So here is a link to it..

http://www.penguinrc.com/download/Podium.jpeg
 
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One question.

How big is the plate to mount the wheel on?

If this is too small, people will start to complaing that they can't hard mount the wheel.
 
Currently the design does not support Hard mounting the wheel. It currently uses The normal clamps to hold it which because of the shape it does so very securely. I have tested it with several Logitech wheels and it works well with all of them.. I have thought about a secure mount option as the Gearbox Tray requires it be screwed down to the plate. It would not be hard to do as it would just be a plate that attaches to the points that the gearbox mounts to which would allow someone to secure mount the steering wheel.. The only thing with that is I would have to research out the mounting provisions for as many different steering wheels as possible so that it could be somewhat universal as having a different mounting plate for each different wheel would be kinda insane. That is why I haven't really incorporated that into it..

But to answer your question the top plate where the wheel actual mounts is around 6" wide.. which was all that was needed to create a secure platform..

Brion Sohn
 
if i was a customer browsing a site for a stand, and saw that, i probably wouldnt give this a second glance TBH, it looks like it might fall over im afraid. this may not be the case, but you said you wanted to market it. be good to see it in action?
 
Another question

Are you going to make a 'thing' where you can mount your pedals on?

Some people don't have a carpet and only have a hard slippery floor.
 
Dunno if it's just me, But I could imagine that post really getting on my nerves when braking etc.
Looks like it could really get in the way in regards to pedals.
 
Harbinja
Dunno if it's just me, But I could imagine that post really getting on my nerves when braking etc.
Looks like it could really get in the way in regards to pedals.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing. I don't think it will be that much of a problem as 'the post' is between your upper legs not between your feet.
 
Turbolover
Hey all. First time poster, long time reader.

Had to comment on this.

That's exactly the stand I'm using. Problem is, mine was bought in IKEA.
It's called the VIKA RÖRBY. Here's a link:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90138183

The shifter mount is clever, though.
Click to expand...

penguinrc
OK I have taken a picture of the prototype which is actually pretty close to a production piece.. It just costs alot to get from a prototype to production...

This picture has my G25 on it with the Gearbox in right hand shift configuration..

http://www.penguinrc.com/download/PodiumP.JPG

Brion
Click to expand...

Looks quite similar. Did you do the prototype yourself? The finish looks really good for a prototype 👍
 
The prototype stand is the Rorby and it works very well. However due to copyrights and stuff I am not sure if we can use it as an actual base for a released product so I have to assume that I would have to have all of the parts made with some design alterations, hence the pricing estimates.. It would be nice if I could just use it as pricing could less..

If I could just tell people to get a Rorby and supply parts kits for conversion that would be good too but most people want it all in one and don't like having to buy a part here and a part there.. Also I would be kinda screwed if they ever dropped the product...

The Gearbox tray is a complete design by me and actually costs more to produce then the stand if I could just get the base pre-made

As for the bar between the legs it is not an issue, If you have ever driven a high end Kart you actually have a gas tank between the legs.. It actually just gives you that sort of feel.. I personally slightly offset the petals so that they are in line with how I drive.

There is still a lot of thought that I have to do as you guys are bringing up all of the things that I have thought about. As for the pedals I have thought about that, right now they just sit in front as normal but you so bring up a point on non carpeted floors. Rubber pads work for that but if they get to dirty they slide so that is not the beast option there.. I will have to think about that..

Thanks guys for the input...

Brion
 
penguinrc
As for the pedals I have thought about that, right now they just sit in front as normal but you so bring up a point on non carpeted floors. Rubber pads work for that but if they get to dirty they slide so that is not the beast option there.. I will have to think about that..

Thanks guys for the input...

Brion
Click to expand...
The pedal 'thing' I talked about, don't know how to call it but you know what I mean, has to be big enough for all the major pedal boxes to be able to fit. Also make it possible to tilt the pedals. You know what should be unique? A wheel stand with a rod, bar above the pedal 'thing' where you can invert your pedals. 1% of your profit for me if this idea works. :P

Also make it possible to incline the base were you mount the wheel on.
 
The only issue though is of course the more stuff you add the more expensive it gets as it becomes harder to do and add parts of course..

I like the tilt for the steering wheel though.. don't know how that might affect balance though which of course affects the driving feel...The foot petal bracket would probably have to be an option if I can figure it out if the entry price is to be kept on the lower side.

Brion
 
If you are contemplating producing anything you have to give it a catchy name, figure out how to produce the product from base materials, you need to produce working drawings for each piece of the product, allocate a fabrication and production area (usually a very dirty area) , job out as much as you can but you will need large orders to offset per unit cost, build assembly jigs, welding is a messy but effective way of connect things, packaging has to be thought out, good luck……..lol
 
That is true I do have the name.. and yes it is very hard to market things i have been doing it in the RC industry since 1997 so I have had some experience in it.. This is just in a completely different area which of course has it's own nuances.. So i am trying to figure out if it would be worth it to even try to push forward with this.. I may still decide to sell it with the Rorby and just give IKEA credit for the steel parts design and lower the pricing considerably as that might be an option that wouldn't cost so much to do.. "Timppaq" can probably vouch for the stability of the platform.. Basically with that I would be selling a conversion kit for that pedestal to allow it to be fully functional as a driving stand.. I could then probably incorporate more options...

The gearbox plate parts are all CNC Machined in-house on our machines so we are able to do a decent amount of machining ourselves. I thought about doing them out of graphite at one time but that would be insanely expensive.. We did some work for a simulator company out here doing Carbon Graphite Dash plates and Paddle shift plates (much like the ones Chilicoke has on his G27) except theirs were flat plate rather than molded... They actually told me I could sell them at one point but I wasn't sure abut that either...

Anyway now I am rambling..

Brion
 
Hey penguinrc, what types of rc cars do you make parts for, and whats your brand name and where can they be found. I'm always looking for new aftermarket parts to try out for my RC8.

And as for your stand. That price point is being done really well by a couple other companies, and I hate to say it, but they're designs look like they would be hard to beat. Why not try for something in a lower price range, under 100$?
 
Opps sorry "Timppaq" I meant to put "Turbolover" as he has been using this basic sort of setup (earlier post)...

To bevo's post..

We make stuff mainly for the 4WD onroad scene (Tamiya, HPI, Yokomo, ect..) I have been doing OEM work for more of the industry lately than keeping my designs current so there is currently alot of stuff in development. We currently don't have anything for the RC8.. and as you probably could have guessed the company name is Penguin r/c. Since this is not the place I will not post my link here but if you type our name into google you will find us.

Around $100.00 list is kind of where I was trying to keep this.. However, if all of the parts have to be made it will be hard to do as I don't have chinese contacts. If I decide to actually use the Ikea unit (give them credit) and do the mods. I could probably actually sell what you currently see in the pictures for around $65 -$75.00 with the gearbox plate attachment. Granted just to sell the stand I would be more than Ikea direct as I would have to add Taxes, Inventory, Profit, and all that good normal business cost stuff..

Basically my theory for this what to have something stable and compact that would be easy to store, not terribly expensive, and effective enough to withstand the forces put force by the high end wheels.

I have looked around and the cheapest wheel (self standing) stand that I have seen was about $130.00 but did not include provisions for the Gearbox. It was also fairly large in size. I have seen a couple a little cheaper where one looked like just a lap plate for about $50 - $60...

I think, I am in range with this if I can get everything worked out.. If I cannot however source things for what I am believing I can then I probably won't end up doing it as the selling cost would just get too high and therefore not worth it.. I am aware that this would not be a High End stand and that is sort of what I was going for since it would be easy to create a high-end one..

Getting inexpensive and effective is really difficult..

So far in the months that I have used this I have never had the clamp system come loose so I am not even sure that hard mounting is worth it for this price point. If you get it snug and never remove it then you shouldn't have an issue. the only thing I have found which I mentioned before is that it does have a tip if you tend to pull or push a lot on the steering wheel.. However it won't fall over, Partially because you should be holding the steering wheel.. the nice thing I have found is that I mount the power brick for the Wheel on the back of the Gearbox platform so I can move it into place with two hands. One for the Brake plate and one for the Wheel stand then since the power wire can be removed from the brick I just plug that in and I am ready to go.. No additional set-up needed.. Really nice really fast.

Of course not as nice as a dedicated set-up but I just don't have the room for that...

Brion
 
penguinrc
Opps sorry "Timppaq" I meant to put "Turbolover" as he has been using this basic sort of setup (earlier post)...
Click to expand...

This is my G27 setup with the 20$ "VIKA RÖRBY" IKEA stand.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0580-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0577-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0574-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0584-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0581-2.jpg


The RÖRBY is stable enough for the G27 but not for the shifter unit.
My setup works best then the RÖRBY base is wedged under the couch.
The shifter unit also fits perfectly into the couch with a spare part from my office table.

This setup is adequate for now, but not a permanent solution.
I will probably upgrade to a real cockpit soon.

Why anyone would copy this design and try to market it as a wheel stand, is really beyond me.
 
Turbolover
This is my G27 setup with the 20$ "VIKA RÖRBY" IKEA stand.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0580-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0577-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0574-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0584-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0581-2.jpg


The RÖRBY is stable enough for the G27 but not for the shifter unit.
My setup works best then the RÖRBY base is wedged under the couch.
The shifter unit also fits perfectly into the couch with a spare part from my office table.

This setup is adequate for now, but not a permanent solution.
I will probably upgrade to a real cockpit soon.

Why anyone would copy this design and try to market it as a wheel stand, is really beyond me.
Click to expand...

Basically the reasons for re-purposing the design are the same as probably the reasons why you and I chose to use it in the first place in that it is very compact and stable enough to withstand the use of the high powered wheels. It is not really a "copy" as there would be additional design work done to create a more dedicated stand or if it was used "as-is" I would legally have to give Ikea credit for that part of the design. It of course would not be for someone who wants a dedicated set-up but would be a great point of entry for people who either have little room or don't wish to spend a fortune on something dedicated. Not everyone has the ability or know how to create a custom cockpit setup which might be cheaper than some of the Higer end Cockpits but more than the lower end Playseats.. For which I have seen many complaints about tilt in the steering table.. One thing that this doesn't have, and the Playseats are quite a but more expensive.

The other thing is that of course not everyone knows about this (except now for those that are reading the thread) or even have any clue about Ikea. Ikea is only major market in the US. so they may not even have knowledge or access to something like this for this use.
Personally when I started with this project I wanted something that was easy to set-up and small that I could move in and out of the living room with ease.. The next most stable thing was a Small traditional table but having to lug that in and move coffee tables and other things out of the way became a real drag to set up.. With this i can just move it in, pug it in, drive, and then move it out when I am finished with very little "set-up".

Basically there are reasons for re-purposing. Now the question becomes is it worth the added expense and that is what I am trying to determine. As it is some work to redesign it or even to just re-market it with add-ons.
 
Turbolover
This is my G27 setup with the 20$ "VIKA RÖRBY" IKEA stand.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0580-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0577-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0574-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0584-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/Nattens_Engel/Turbolover G27/_DSC0581-2.jpg


The RÖRBY is stable enough for the G27 but not for the shifter unit.
My setup works best then the RÖRBY base is wedged under the couch.
The shifter unit also fits perfectly into the couch with a spare part from my office table.

This setup is adequate for now, but not a permanent solution.
I will probably upgrade to a real cockpit soon.

Why anyone would copy this design and try to market it as a wheel stand, is really beyond me.
Click to expand...
Perfect!

You should make your own cockpit (wheelstand) thread.
 
penguinrc
...The other thing is that of course not everyone knows about this (except now for those that are reading the thread) or even have any clue about Ikea. Ikea is only major market in the US. so they may not even have knowledge or access to something like this for this use.

Basically there are reasons for re-purposing. Now the question becomes is it worth the added expense and that is what I am trying to determine. As it is some work to redesign it or even to just re-market it with add-ons.
Click to expand...


Perhaps it's a long walk to one of the big IKEA's in some countries, and this particular item is not available online, but to resell or redesign a 20$ table leg with a few mods and asking more than 100$ for it is not really viable in my opinion.
There would also have to be substantial differences in design if you want to avoid copyright issues.

Selling the mods seperatly could be interesting, though.
To my knowledge there's no standalone pedal plate with adjustable angle on the market. Nudge Nudge.
 
Why would there be any issues with who made one of the components?

It is one component in your design.

Every component in a Sony TV isn't made by Sony, yet they still sell the sum of all parts as a Sony TV.

If you are buying the part from Ikea, then they have their money for their property, and you have your right to use it however. There is no issue.

Now if you were completely fabricating all the parts yourself, and they were identical to the parts from Ikea, then there would be a problem.






.
 
There is no problem with using another companies components in a design as long as you are not copying those components exactly and using them for the same purpose. As far as similarity in design, since, it is re-purpouse technically the design could be exact because it is not being used for anything near what they are selling it for but that is really pushing the bounds.. (it's actually a table leg in which you are supposed to buy 2 and then a separate top of your choice (making a table at about $70.00).

I know all about the limits of copyright laws as I went to school at one of the top industrial design schools in the world and they go over all these sorts of things and with my normal business I have to look out for those copying us and make sure I am not infringing on others. Standard rule of thumb is completely different use and/or a 20% difference in the design that will make it your own.

This is why you do see so many similar (but different) products on the market.

As far as the $100.00 that has a lot to do if I would need to produce my own parts for this or just be able to use the current stand effectively. I don't by any means have the manufacturing or distribution capability to make that part for $20.00 in fact I don't even know if I could truly do it for $100.00 it is quite well built. If I had to resell the Stand alone and just used theirs I could sell it for far less as there would be no manufacturing minimums, tooling, large storage, ect..

BTW, in the US think Drive, not walk, I am 30 minutes by car from the nearest Ikea and I am in Los Angeles (which is huge market with I think it is 5 Ikeas in the vicinity).. Someone in the mid-west would have to fly 2 hours or more to get to one...

Brion Sohn
 
Nvedamuthu
A folding table would work better.
Click to expand...

Depends on the table.. The one that I was using prior as I earlier in the thread would be lifted right of the ground with the power of the G25 feedback. to withstand the force it has to be a heavy table or it will be moved around.. Granted for the lower end wheels folding tables are OK as they are not as strong.

Brion
 

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