PP limited races, HP limiter or minimal tune?

[Finchypoo]

Ok, I figure this has an easy answer but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. I really like the PP limited road car races online and I usually go for the 450-500pp limits. I have an Autobacs Garaiya 02 that I love and I have it tuned to 515pp at the moment (tuned to 500 and forgot about oil change )

So here's my question, right now I only have to drop the HP down a little bit with the limiter to enter 500pp races. I could still get a lot more HP out of it but I wonder, is it bad to max out HP for faster races and then use the limiter to enter low PP races, or keep the car close to your desired PP limit. I assume all HP boosting upgrades ONLY upgrade HP, and don't really have any other effects (except turbos, since they lag) so it would seem that the HP limiter could be used to "remove" engine tune stages and other irreversible upgrades.

thoughts?

 

[GfxJG]

Limiting HP is much better due to you get to keep the torque.

 

[Finchypoo]

that'll do it. I like torque, gonna go see how much more I can get out of this gem of a car.

 

[chuyler1]

It really depends on the car, the class, and the track. In most cases you are better off removing a few mods like intake, ecu, manifolds until the car is within 1-5 performance points. Then you can use a few clicks of the performance limiter to get the exact number.

You may have noticed that the power limiter flattens the hp curve. The one thing you definitely don't want is a flat HP curve below the rpm band the car runs in. Take the car out and run it to redline in 2nd gear then shift to 3rd. Whatever that rpm the needle drops to, you do not want to reach peak hp before it. because you will basically never use it. For example, if the needle drops to 6,800 rpm but your car hits peak hp and flatlines at 6,000 rpm you are better off removing mods and resetting the power reduction if it means your car will hit peak hp at 7,000rpm instead. The perfect curve will be a peak dead center of your rpm range.

 

[Adrenaline]

You may have noticed that the power limiter flattens the hp curve. The one thing you definitely don't want is a flat HP curve below the rpm band the car runs in. Take the car out and run it to redline in 2nd gear then shift to 3rd. Whatever that rpm the needle drops to, you do not want to reach peak hp before it. because you will basically never use it. For example, if the needle drops to 6,800 rpm but your car hits peak hp and flatlines at 6,000 rpm you are better off removing mods and resetting the power reduction if it means your car will hit peak hp at 7,000rpm instead. The perfect curve will be a peak dead center of your rpm range.

It seems that by certain logic, the best curve, is in fact no curve at all.
Why 'peak' your power at a certain RPM, if you can have maximum power through the entire RPM range?

If I have max power from 6,000 all the way to 7,000 (flat due to limiter)
Isn't that better than a car that peaks at 6500 on a curve?

 

[chuyler1]

No, because PP is calculated via the area under the curve. How often do you drive at 2,000 rpm during a race? If you don't use it, it is wasted points.

 

[Hermanvongerman]

It seems that by certain logic, the best curve, is in fact no curve at all.
Why 'peak' your power at a certain RPM, if you can have maximum power through the entire RPM range?

If I have max power from 6,000 all the way to 7,000 (flat due to limiter)
Isn't that better than a car that peaks at 6500 on a curve?

you will find that this may be true on some cars, But after testing this whilst tuning cars the other day for 550pp races, I did find that I lost a huge amount of Torque when using the engine power limiter.
Just be sure that you check what the power and torque curves look like before applying the power limiter compared to when it is applied.

eg, Nismo 400R I was tuning with power limiter enabled to 500hp only produced 240nm torque, but when I removed parts to get the same power with no power restriction I had 380nm torque.

(this is just an example as can't remember exact figures)

 

[Adrenaline]

...after testing this whilst tuning cars the other day for 550pp races, I did find that I lost a huge amount of Torque when using the engine power limiter.

Limiting HP is much better due to you get to keep the torque.

. . . *grumbles*

 

[zero_speed]

From personal experience your always better having it built to the required PP. Using the restrictor will effect HP and torque, and could effect gearing as welll. Adding ballast is also a option, but depending on the the amount of weight added this could have a negetive effect on performance.

 

[Poppins]

it really depends on the car, the class, and the track. In most cases you are better off removing a few mods like intake, ecu, manifolds until the car is within 1-5 performance points. Then you can use a few clicks of the performance limiter to get the exact number.

You may have noticed that the power limiter flattens the hp curve. the one thing you definitely don't want is a flat hp curve below the rpm band the car runs in. Take the car out and run it to redline in 2nd gear then shift to 3rd. Whatever that rpm the needle drops to, you do not want to reach peak hp before it. because you will basically never use it. For example, if the needle drops to 6,800 rpm but your car hits peak hp and flatlines at 6,000 rpm you are better off removing mods and resetting the power reduction if it means your car will hit peak hp at 7,000rpm instead. The perfect curve will be a peak dead center of your rpm range.

lololololol


and if anything limiting power is the way to go.

it will keep the massive torque the highly tuned engine makes at low rpm but as soon as it makes the certain HP you set it at it flattens the curve resulting in a PERFECT power band

anyone who says different should just stop talking now.

 

[niky]

The problem is torque below the shift point matters very little, but it's still calculated into the PP... so if you have a huge amount of torque outside of, say, the area between 4000-7000 rpm, then you're wasting a lot of PP to get that extra boost at 4000-5000 rpm versus sacrificing that big wave of torque for a higher allowed power peak.

You want it flat-tish, but not completely flat... because cars that are "natural" at that PP will pull away from you on the longer straights.

It's a case-to-case basis, and what's best is simply what works for that particular

 

[Poppins]

ah so if you are right about that in that case then having a lower torque and high hp in your peak band is best.

 

[chuyler1]

lololololol


and if anything limiting power is the way to go.

it will keep the massive torque the highly tuned engine makes at low rpm but as soon as it makes the certain HP you set it at it flattens the curve resulting in a PERFECT power band

anyone who says different should just stop talking now.

I'm not sure what is so funny. In fact, we may be talking about the same thing, except I am trying to express that there is a limit to how much of a flat line you want. If you have a flat line across the top that starts at 4,000rpm and goes to 8,000 rpm, on the street your car might be totally badass...but in the game you're only gonna use at best 6,000-8,000 rpm so you are paying (in the form of performance points) to have hp from 4,000-6,000 rpm that you'll use only once...in 1st gear at the start of the race. So if you drag race this might help, but on a road course where you run each gear to redline that wide of a powerband is useless.

The goal with tuning is max hp and max torque in a specific power band. If you drive automatic that will be all the way to the right side of the graph since the automatic tranny will always shift at redline. If you drive manual, there are times where you can optimize it for midrange power, but you'll have to run tall gears and shift way before redline to squeeze the torque out of the engine.