Pride of your Ancestry

[Zrow]

I have French ancestors (my last name is Fortier, which evidently is French) and my Irish ancestors (probably more Irish than French from what I understand). However, I really don't care about any of my ancestry - I completely lack any and all French or Irish pride, though this is probably because I'm such a mixed bag of nationalities.

I know someone, though, who takes great pride in his Irish ancestry. Hibernian, goes to Ireland on trips, the whole nine. Nevermind the fact that he was born in America, has lived here all his life, raised his family here, got a job here. Ireland hasn't really done anything for him.

So what's even the point of national pride in the first place? If you weren't physically born in a country, and you lived your life in another country, why have any pride in your heritage? It's interesting to be sure, to see where your ancestors are from. But is there any real value to being proud of it?

I see it everywhere - "Irish and Proud", "Proud to be Italian", etc. But most, if not all, of these people are American. Isn't that what's important? Isn't that the thing people should be "proud" of? (not that I'm even suggesting that people should be proud of that, because I'm not entirely sure where national pride stems from) Is any kind of nationalism even rational at all?

So do you have pride in your heritage?

 

[Loon]

I wouldn't say I have strong pride for my ancestry. I think it's cool to know what parts of the world I'm made up of or whatever, but I'm not die hard throw it in your face every chance that I get that I have some German, Irish, or Native American blood in me. Those people bug me, especially if they're only like a 1/8 Irish or Italian.

 

[Omnis]

I have predominantly Italian ancestry. I have no pride for Italy per se, but I am proud to have been born to my parents. The bits of Italian culture that have trickled down to me are something I'd say I'm proud of as well. It's not over-the-top for me, though.

Some people take it way too far.

 

[YSSMAN]

Come around to Western Michigan, everyone has a story about their Dutch or Polish roots. I'm not really sure if its just pride in the homeland per-se, but more or less, that you need to identify yourself as part of a group in the area. I'm not sure...

Either way, I'm proud to have my Dutch heritage, and of course the good mix of German and Native American influences as well. Although I am a bit of a mutt, I've always identified with that Northern European lineage... And consequently, I've attempted to find out as much as I can about my family to make a journey across the pond one of these days.

 

[Famine]

I see it everywhere - "Irish and Proud", "Proud to be Italian", etc.

And, lest we forget, "African" American.

 

[Omnis]

And, lest we forget, "African" American.

Yeah, how many African-Americans are in your country anyway?

 

[Famine]

Lewis Hamilton is, apparently.

 

[Jay]

Lewis Hamilton is, apparently.

But how else do you tell Americans he is...............black?

 

[McLaren]

I have pride for my ancestry, but I've got a bit more for being born in America. I mean, when I go to see the people I have descended from in Europe, that's it. I'm just going to see them. They don't really do anything for me, which means the only good thing about seeing them is getting to relax and spend some time with my g/f.

 

[Sureboss]

But how else do you tell Americans he is...............black?

My Science teacher always said that African-Americans were brown. Only aborigines are 'black'. Apparently.

I'm not at all fussed about where my ancestry comes from, I am proud of things we've done. Through research we have found that we our surname (Stilwell) is very southern. There's a well/little area of water in Surrey called Stylewell dating from the 13th century. Got bits of Scottish blood in me (not due to a night out in Glasgow), but nothing outside UK afaik.

 

[Racer21]

I think it is more to do with ethnicitiy than nationality. American Indians are the only real Americans, well at the moment that is the theory, but they come from Siberia anyway. I suppose one could say, why would you be proud of something your ancestors did? Or, my ancestors are better than yours. I want to get a DNA test when older to find exactly where I am from, because in the UK, we have the Celts, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norwegians, Danes to look into, unless you believe Stephen Oppenheimer's article.

 

[Famine]

But how else do you tell Americans he is...............black?

"Lewis Hamilton? He's black."

Not that I would. I find it condescending to incessantly refer to his skin colour - he's the first black this, that and the other. Like it matters (even if it were true, which it isn't).

I'm not at all fussed about where my ancestry comes from, I am proud of things we've done. Through research we have found that we our surname (Stilwell) is very southern. There's a well/little area of water in Surrey called Stylewell dating from the 13th century. Got bits of Scottish blood in me (not due to a night out in Glasgow), but nothing outside UK afaik.

If you get back far enough - 11th Century and before - you'll find Norse/Germanic, Danish and Norse/Viking in there somewhere.

Of course, if you get back far, far enough - 1100th Century BC - and you'll find you're African.

 

[Racer21]

But did they not find hominid bones in Britain that predates "Out of Africa"? Like 700,000 years ago.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/sep/06/uknews

 

[Famine]

But did they not find hominid bones in Britain that predates "Out of Africa"? Like 700,000 years ago.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/sep/06/uknews

Homo antecessor != Homo sapiens

There's prior H. antecessor fossils discovered in Spain (1.2My). Still has pretty much nothing to do with H. sapiens.

 

[Touring Mars]

I have French ancestors (my last name is Fortier, which evidently is French) and my Irish ancestors (probably more Irish than French from what I understand). However, I really don't care about any of my ancestry - I completely lack any and all French or Irish pride, though this is probably because I'm such a mixed bag of nationalities.

I know someone, though, who takes great pride in his Irish ancestry. Hibernian, goes to Ireland on trips, the whole nine. Nevermind the fact that he was born in America, has lived here all his life, raised his family here, got a job here. Ireland hasn't really done anything for him.

Interesting post 👍 I can understand having some sort of pride in your own ancestry, but then again, people are often highly selective about what they choose to be proud of... If you dig back beyond even your most recent ancestry (that which you know something about), then the question of "national identity" becomes increasingly diffuse anyway.

Still, I see no harm in cultivating an interest in apsects of your cultural heritage - I'd just not go as far as trying to justify a staunchly nationalist attitude based on biological ancestry! I've always considered myself 1/8 Irish, as one of my great grandfathers was Irish, and my other seven great grandparents were Scottish.. But I couldn't tell you just what percentage Scottish they were, or what percentage Irish my "Irish" great grandfather was. So my 1/8th Irishness is, in reality, completely dependent upon arbitrarily looking as far back as 3 generations ago, and no further... In any case, it's not important to my own identity, but it becomes important if you want to extend the debate to biological history...

What fascinates me is the opposite to pride of your ancestry - people are normally proud of their ancestry, but funnily enough the reverse seems not to be shame, but denial... Tell a white supremacist that their ancient ancestors were non-white, and you'll see what I mean! Tell a creationist that they share common ancestors with other species, and you'll see what I mean! (I have done both, by the way...)

It's interesting to be sure

Spoken like a true Irishman

 

[TheCracker]

But how else do you tell Americans he is...............black?

He's not. He's mixed race, his mum is is white as i am.

 

[daan]

Got bits of Scottish blood in me (not due to a night out in Glasgow), but nothing outside UK afaik.

After a night out in Glasgow, you'll have bits of Scottish blood on you...

 

[DQuaN]

I'm half Scottish and half Greek-Cypriot. I'm proud of it but I don't really do anything to show it.

 

[Pupik]

...It's not over-the-top for me, though.

Some people take it way too far.

I think it's because humans have a paradoxical desire to show off their individuality, creating divisions, yet simultaneously crave banding together with others that have common interests.

Some people (like Omnis and myself) live in areas where there is a lot of diversity; people are from, and were born, from all over the nation, and from many different nations throughout the world. I think it's neat that South Florida is very international in that respect, since if gives you a chance to meet people from other parts of the world, and that also puts my area on the map. But at the end of the day, I really don't care if your bumper sticker says your from East Timor or not. Seriously, you left that country...it might have been nice in retrospect, but obviously you came here because life is better.

I suppose I have a bit of bias; I'm so far removed from my Polish and Russian roots (by 4 generations), and from my religious background, that I consider myself an American through and through. My grandparents told me their grandparents left for a better life in America, and obviously liked it. But I couldn't begin to have a conversation from someone who only spoke Polish or Russian, nor do I understand what's going on in their homeland today.

 

[TheCracker]

I think this 'pride in your heritage' is a very American thing. You just don't really see it in Europe so much, certainly not from anyone with 3rd or 4th generation heritage.

 

[Sureboss]

I'm half Scottish and half Greek-Cypriot. I'm proud of it but I don't really do anything to show it.

You don't whip your top off and shout, "Look at my slightly Mediterranean pecks!"?

Of course, if you get back far, far enough - 1100th Century BC - and you'll find you're African.

We've only been settled in Europe for 3,000 years? Or is that just based on the oldest fossil found in Europe?

 

[Famine]

We've only been settled in Europe for 3,000 years? Or is that just based on the oldest fossil found in Europe?

1,100th Century. 110,000 years ago. It's a good ballpark for H. sapiens' first appearance.

 

[Sureboss]

Oh Missed the century bit. (Bit like an England ODI batsman)

 

[UnoMOTO]

How is this for the unexpected? My father grew up in an Amish family. Yep, Horse and buggy, farming, no electricity at all. My family reunions are probably not like many others you've seen. Here are some pics of the last time I was out to see my family. I am proud of my Ancestry and after spending any amount of time with them I often think they have a much better life then the rest of us. Every Amish person has a choice at a certain age to say with the lifestyle or branch out, I can only imagine my life if my father had chose to say.

These pictures are hard to come by. They don't like to have there picture taken so I had to be quick and sneeky about it.

 

[Duke]

I have predominantly Italian ancestry. I have no pride for Italy per se, but I am proud to have been born to my parents. The bits of Italian culture that have trickled down to me are something I'd say I'm proud of as well. It's not over-the-top for me, though.

Some people take it way too far.

Yeah, I'm like that, and so is my wife. She's pure-blood second-gen Italian (her grandparents were all born in Italy), but she's not overly dramatic about it. We're interested in the history of our families, and someday we'd like to go to Italy and see their home cities, but we don't go to the Italian Festival every year or anything.

For my own background, I'm about half English, a quarter Welsh, and a quarter German. I've got my great great great grandfather's indenture papers from when he emigrated from England in 1835. I'm proud of my family and I enjoyed visiting England and Wales, but I'm not getting a Cymru dragon tattoo anytime soon.

 

[Omnis]

Some people (like Omnis and myself) live in areas where there is a lot of diversity; people are from, and were born, from all over the nation, and from many different nations throughout the world. I think it's neat that South Florida is very international in that respect, since if gives you a chance to meet people from other parts of the world, and that also puts my area on the map. But at the end of the day, I really don't care if your bumper sticker says your from East Timor or not. Seriously, you left that country...it might have been nice in retrospect, but obviously you came here because life is better.

Yes, correct. And on hindsight I think my high school was a Caribbean embassy.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think this 'pride in your heritage' is a very American thing. You just don't really see it in Europe so much, certainly not from anyone with 3rd or 4th generation heritage.

Well, it makes sense... I mean, most of us come from there, and we'll, you guys live there. I'd hope that some of you are proud of the nations you come from, but quite obviously, nationalism isn't always looked highly upon in the region.

 

[Sage]

I see it everywhere - "Irish and Proud", "Proud to be Italian", etc. But most, if not all, of these people are American. Isn't that what's important? Isn't that the thing people should be "proud" of? (not that I'm even suggesting that people should be proud of that, because I'm not entirely sure where national pride stems from) Is any kind of nationalism even rational at all?

Someone’s been listening to Penn Jillette.

Yeah, I way don’t get any of it. For one, nobody even knows what I am – people usually guess Mexican or Philippino, of which I’m neither. Second, I don’t even know what I am – I’m half Asian half white, but I’ve no idea what the white consists of (except there’s a high probability of some Norwegian mixed in). Third, even if I did, who cares? A certain number of genes are all that I share with my ancestors, and genes don’t give a flying rat’s bum about national boundaries. It’s all hopelessly contrived to me. Individuals are what matter – I don’t care whom your ancestors did it with or what color your skin is, I care about your ideas and emotions and life experiences.

 

[Sureboss]

Well, it makes sense... I mean, most of us come from there, and we'll, you guys live there. I'd hope that some of you are proud of the nations you come from, but quite obviously, nationalism isn't always looked highly upon in the region.

We're all one big country in Europe anyway

 

[FoolKiller]

Of the ancestry I know, my grandmother was the first generation born in North America (Canada) and my mother was the first generation born in the US. On my father's side we believe we have marriage ties with Abraham Lincoln's family (some dude in our family possibly married his aunt and the families moved to Kentucky together). So, that side I can't trace the national ancestry pre-US citizenship, but judging by family name we are guessing English.

So, my closest European ancestry I can trace is WWI Germany. Apparently my great great grandfather (or was it one great?) went AWOL from the Imperial German military leading up to WWI and snuck his family out. We think pre-German residence we had Scottish and Irish ancestry.

So, I can't say that I am proud of my family ancestry. I have no German pride or (best guess) British pride. But I do like their beers, and food.

Especially the beer.