ProTips to help take my driving to the next level?

[transpaqua]

For some background on my skill level, I'd consider myself of average to slightly-above average, and have been with the series since GT3. Drive with no aids except ABS 1 on a DS3, as a wheel setup just isn't really in the budget right now [Music equipment eats all my disposable income ]

About a month ago finally made the switch to Manual Transmission. Totally worth it, and a far more engaging experience. Loving it. Kind of surprised how much just 2nd and 3rd gear can accomplish!

I've golded nearly everything, except License S4 & S5, and that danged SuperGT500 IA Mission. [consistently a tenth off, grrrrrr ] Only seasonal I've missed gold on was the Hudson @ Streets of Willow. Hit the top 200 in the Lotus Race Car @ Brands Hatch somehow.

Have a pretty firm grasp on cornering theory, done a fair bit of research into it.

Anyways, I feel my main area that needs improvement is how to adjust my lines/driving style to different drivetrains, and how to make the most out of the switch to driving a manual gearbox.

Mostly do single player time trials in untuned/mild power-add-on street cars, its kind of like my zen relaxation thing I suppose. Usually drive FR and MR cars, but I seem to be struggling with AWD due to the understeer. Not so much with a Skyline, but I feel I'm leaving tons of time on the track in something like an Evo/Impreza.

So, any fellow GTPlaneteers have some advice for how to adjust driving styles to each drivetrain configuration? Also, any help with where in the powerband to shift and/or a discussion of the pro's & cons of short shifting, or any other advanced strategy in regards to driving a stick?
Thanks in advance.

 

[scholesy1899]

I don't want to be the one that says get a wheel cos there's such accomplished DS3ers around that could mentor you, but I would budget for one. But I do love audio equipment also, be it production of music or the listening of.

Good luck anyhow bud, your accomplishment with pad only reinforce my feelings a decent wheel would only peel that envelope open more for you, as open as GT6 possibly can be in present state anyway (your not getting outside). Sorry for unhelpful reply. Wheeeeeeel. Apologies again.

 

[FussyFez]

I'll echo @scholesy1899 .

But when it comes to manual, here's a few tips from a die hard manual user.


An early up shift mid corner can help corner exit traction on high powered cars.

Short shifting is only really useful for acceleration with a low to mid range torque spread. Peaky engines can benefit from going well into the red zone, cars with low or mid rpm turbo's will always benefit from a short shift, just watch how fast your speedo is gaining at each shift.

Try an evo or impreza with a mid rpm turbo, shift at the redline, watching the speedo, then do the same but shift at around 1.5k before the redline. Maybe more. You'll notice the difference immediately.

Depending on the power curve, most high rpm turbo's will want to go pretty much to the redline. Most NA cars will want to rev properly, and don't tend to benefit from short shifting, but some particularly torquey V engines can benefit from short shifting. Clio V6 springs to mind.

Other wise id say you tend to want to be a gear higher than what you initially think. Mid corner shifts can unbalance the car, so a nice progressive throttle application in a gear higher should see a stable, fast exit. You can get on the power earlier because you are accessing the torque, without the power overwhelming everything like in the lower gear.

 

[DolHaus]

In regards to short shifting: Look at the power curves of which ever car you are driving, are the peaks of the curves within the rev range you're using? If the power/torque peaks quite low in the range and then drops away then you are never using the full power of the engine by running to the red line. This would suggest that you should short shift to utilise the lower rev range more.
Its easy to think that the high rpm scream of an engine means you are getting the most out of it but in reality very few motors produce good power near the redline, more often than not you are just getting further away from peak power/torque and costing yourself speed and time.
Adjustments to the transmission to utilise the lower down power will obviously help you stay on the power longer but I can't explain how to attain this as transmissions are an art I am yet to fully understand.
It depends on the overall power of the car, sometimes you want to stay away from the peak torque because of the possible wheel spin but with lower powered cars you can definitely gain a couple of tenths by short shifting and fully utilising the power.

 

[transpaqua]

Thanks all. Trust me, I'd love to make the switch to a wheel set up (mainly so I could not get frustrated with the insanely fast online community!) however I just can't seem to justify the purchase cost for such a limited use. No way I could let myself buy a cheap-o either, I'd have to go all out for at least a G25/27. You get what you pay for, and I'm a firm believer in quality.

So for a hypothetical example, its better to exit a corner at lower revs in 4th as opposed to near redline in 3rd, to where yo'd only have say, half a second before having to shift up, correct? That's one one of the main things I've been wondering during the switch.

Also, say you're nearing a braking zone about to hit the rev limiter, I'm assuming its better to just go ahead and ride that gear all the way to the top, rather than shift up for the brief moment before braking? How much of a difference do unnecessary shifts really make?

First week or two I was considerably slower as opposed to my auto lap times, but it's completely changed my thought process of analyzing lines on tracks now, for the better. I've driven a stick IRL for many many years until a few months ago when my '91 325is finally bought the farm, and still find myself stomping around for a clutch at red lights in my new auto trans car. Old habits die hard I suppose.

Any help with coping with AWD understeer? Seems like I can do ok in something that would normally be RWD with added traction up front, i.e. Skyline/Audis.... But in a FF platform turned AWD, not so much. An Evo with AYC turned up to about 80-90 does feel quite a bit better to me though. Thoughts on AYC settings?

 

[transpaqua]

I don't want to be the one that says get a wheel cos there's such accomplished DS3ers around that could mentor you, but I would budget for one. But I do love audio equipment also, be it production of music or the listening of.

Good luck anyhow bud, your accomplishment with pad only reinforce my feelings a decent wheel would only peel that envelope open more for you, as open as GT6 possibly can be in present state anyway (your not getting outside). Sorry for unhelpful reply. Wheeeeeeel. Apologies again.

The only gripe I have with DS3 is finding the "sweet spot" for steering. If you turn in too far, the front wheels start scrubbing. Which, I didn't know for waaay too long. Once I figured that out though, it's only been a matter of practice to get the feel for it, and tinkering with the Steering Sensitivity in Driving Options. (+2)

Seems like a lot of peeps gripe (or did) about the tire squeal sounds in GT6, but personally I love it. Let's me know exactly when I'm turning in too far since I don't have the advantage of FFB.

 

[FussyFez]

Thanks all. Trust me, I'd love to make the switch to a wheel set up (mainly so I could not get frustrated with the insanely fast online community!) however I just can't seem to justify the purchase cost for such a limited use. No way I could let myself buy a cheap-o either, I'd have to go all out for at least a G25/27. You get what you pay for, and I'm a firm believer in quality.

So for a hypothetical example, its better to exit a corner at lower revs in 4th as opposed to near redline in 3rd, to where yo'd only have say, half a second before having to shift up, correct? That's one one of the main things I've been wondering during the switch.

Also, say you're nearing a braking zone about to hit the rev limiter, I'm assuming its better to just go ahead and ride that gear all the way to the top, rather than shift up for the brief moment before braking? How much of a difference do unnecessary shifts really make?

First week or two I was considerably slower as opposed to my auto lap times, but it's completely changed my thought process of analyzing lines on tracks now, for the better. I've driven a stick IRL for many many years until a few months ago when my '91 325is finally bought the farm, and still find myself stomping around for a clutch at red lights in my new auto trans car. Old habits die hard I suppose.

Any help with coping with AWD understeer? Seems like I can do ok in something that would normally be RWD with added traction up front, i.e. Skyline/Audis.... But in a FF platform turned AWD, not so much. An Evo with AYC turned up to about 80-90 does feel quite a bit better to me though. Thoughts on AYC settings?

Firstly, AYC is absolutely beautiful, and in my opinion, one of the best 4wd innovations ever.

Getting a 4wd car to turn has a lot to do with setup.

Trail braking can really help 'keep the diffs loaded', I watched 'speed with Idris Alba' on BBC, he had a go in a S1600 Fiesta, the pro explained that all braking and turning in was done with a trailing throttle to keep the diffs loaded. Fwd with lsd also respond very well to this technique.

Loose diff settings all round help alot. Front toe out, soft to medium spring rates, soft front damping with stiff rear damping, medium front arb, stiff rear arb.

If you have to shift up before hitting the outside clipping point exiting the bend, try a gear higher. You seem to have the jist of it though.

In regards to letting it run into the higher revs, it depends on the car/torque curve.

It's a better idea in real life to leave the lower gear, because it gives you less things to do whilst approaching a 70mph bend at 130mph+ and trying to scrub 60mph whilst faffing with 3 pedals and a gear stick.

I'm GT, on a ds3, it's a split second finger jab that is unlikely to cause an issue. But if it has a low rpm torque spread then it will be a good idea to keep short shifting until your off the gas and 100% on the brakes.



Ninja edit

The only gripe I have with DS3 is finding the "sweet spot" for steering. If you turn in too far, the front wheels start scrubbing. Which, I didn't know for waaay too long. Once I figured that out though, it's only been a matter of practice to get the feel for it, and tinkering with the Steering Sensitivity in Driving Options. (+2)

Seems like a lot of peeps gripe (or did) about the tire squeal sounds in GT6, but personally I love it. Let's me know exactly when I'm turning in too far since I don't have the advantage of FFB.

This is this biggest thing to master on regards to going fast with a wheel.

Turn too much or too little and your going slower than you could be.

Any over correction could send you into the armco at serious speed in the blink of an eye.

Smooth, accurate steering is the key to going fast in cars. 'period'.

 

[transpaqua]

Much appreciation. I may have to experiment with some controller remapping to fully take advantage of the "trailing throttle technique." I'm using right stick up/down for gas & brake, so it's pretty much one or the other. Feels like I can make far more accurate throttle inputs with the stick as opposed to R2/L2 which I use as shifters. May try swapping them, think I've seen others on the board mention using that set up.

So, its more of a tuning aspect as opposed to change in driving style to manage AWD understeer? I was kind of weirded out to see that the HKS CT230 Evo (Awesome car, btw) wouldn't allow camber adjustment to 0. Minimum was 3 up front and 1 rear :/

I've been treating Evo's and other front-heavy AWD's more as FF, in that I'll brake or lift off to transfer the weight towards the front for traction to turn in, then accelerate. I've not messed too much with tuning besides some basics, but would the goal for the tuning you suggest be to maximize weight transfer to the front? And LSD tuning is the biggest mystery of all to me lol. Motor City Hami's guide helped quite a bit, but I can barely wrap my head around tuning one on a FR, much less TWO on AWD.

Also, when climbing a steep hill (i. e. matterhorn tracks, etc) is low rev torque or high rev HP more beneficial in regards to gear selection? That's actually what inspired me to try manual during the recent Subaru @ Matterhorn time trial, and never switched back!

 

[rosckolove]

I think it's safe to say I'm well above average. I know how to go fast and can keep up with 95% of the world. I also mostly drive RWD cars so I had a bit of trouble with AWD and especially FF layouts. There is a technique called the Scandinavian flick (works for anything that has a bit of understeer). Essentially you turn away from the corner slightly before turning in to initiate more oversteer. It's an art that has to be mastered. To much either way and your worse off than just turning in regularly. Also, the best bit of advice I have read, considering I already know what I know I find most advice to be useless.. Is you should do everything once. Brake once, turn in once, and accelerate once. That's the fastest way through anything but weird sweepers and multi apex turns. Practice your lines, braking points and amount of turn until your doing it all once. As for the transmission, I take a quick look at the power curve sometimes. But mostly I just look at the speed readout and test different shift points and look for changes in how fast the speed is going up. An easy way is to let it redline and shift, most of the time you will notice the car will gain speed faster after your shift. So I try and shift a little earlier until the climb in speed is steady. As for the Controller mapping, I used to be on a DS3. There was a GT500 TT that caught my interest on GT5. I finished as the fastest DS3 player for that round. I recommend using L2 and R2 for brake and throttle. And I used the right stick as a slap shifter I guess you could say. That's all I got for ya. Sorry for the giant paragraph, I'm using a phone browser. Good luck man! Oh one last thing... Try and drive stock cars and find ways to overcome the problematic handling characteristics, instead of tuning around your "driving style". For the record I don't believe much in "driving style". I think there is one fastest way around the track and anything else is just well... Slower.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Coming from an average driver like myself, the only tip (not a Pro tip as I am nowhere close to being any kind of pro) I can offer is practice. I practice many long hours each day and it has gradually helped me progress along. Good luck in your quest.

 

[DolHaus]

Much appreciation. I may have experiment with some controller remapping to fully take advantage of the "trailing throttle technique." I'm using right stick up/down for gas & brake, so it's pretty much one or the other. Feels like I can make far more accurate throttle inputs with the stick as opposed to R2/L2 which I use as shifters. May try swapping them, think I've seen others on the board mention using that set up.

So, its more of a tuning aspect as opposed to change in driving style to manage AWD understeer? I was kind of weirded out to see that the HKS CT230 Evo (Awesome car, btw) wouldn't allow camber adjustment to 0. Minimum was 3 up front and 1 rear :/

I've been treating Evo's and other front-heavy AWD's more as FF, in that I'll brake or lift off to transfer the weight towards the front for traction to turn in, then accelerate. I've not messed too much with tuning besides some basics, but would the goal for the tuning you suggest be to maximize weight transfer to the front? And LSD tuning is the biggest mystery of all to me lol. Motor City Hami's guide helped quite a bit, but I can barely wrap my head around tuning one on a FR, much less TWO on AWD.

Also, when climbing a steep hill (i. e. matterhorn tracks, etc) is low rev torque or high rev HP more beneficial in regards to gear selection? That's actually what inspired me to try manual during the recent Subaru @ Matterhorn time trial, and never switched back!

Personally I would avoid trying to transfer too much weight to the front under any circumstances. Too much weight at the front will overload the tyres and give you a whole heap of understeer. It makes the car harder to rotate and slow down, ideally your weight wants to be around 50:50. With the weight in the middle it is much easier to control where its going using the springs and dampers, start with balanced spring rates (equal front and back), take it out for a drive and see how it feels. If you want more weight transfer to the front under braking, soften the front springs and/or dampers, if you want more grip at the rear under acceleration under acceleration then soften the rear.
As for the Diffs, don't worry about the front too much, set it to a basic setting of 10/30/8. Because the wheels change angle during steering they are less affected by a differential so the setting is not critical really, only adjust for fine tuning or if any obvious problems show themselves.

Have a read of this...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/general-tuning-guide.297354/#post-9216822

and this...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/general-tuning-guide.297354/page-4#post-9494741

This should explain how to set the rear diff properly.

As for torque vs. bhp when going up hill, I would always favour torque unless you are experiencing wheel spin.

 

[Vegard]

@transpaqua Studying this lap might be helpful in regard to a couple of the things you mention:



There's so much information available here, the telemetry alone is worth a couple repeats.

 

[transpaqua]

@rosckolove very insightful, thank you for the advice. I whole-heartedly agree about driving non-tuned cars, to be able to adapt to the unique personality of each car. Thats my favorite thing to do, is pick a good car/track combo and hot lap single player time trials against my ghost, working on getting every last tenth of a second possible. Not being on a wheel, seems like there's no way I can be competitive online, so I just work on self-improvement.

I've also heard similar advice as your "only do things once", something along the lines of "if you have to adjust any of your inputs mid-corner.... you took the wrong line." That really stuck with me. Along with prioritizing corners, late apexing, etc.


Taming a stock Ferarri 288 GTO '84 has improved my driving leaps and bounds. After that, I tried a Yellowbird and thought "What's the big deal, I heard these were tricky."

I always stick with whatever tires come on the car stock, and limit tuning to exhaust. Or the occasional weight reduction if its a real land yacht, such as the Jag XKR-S. Though I do have a max-tune fire breathing Peugeot 205 T-16 I've been working on [holy mother of fast...] along with a few other tuning projects...



And also, maybe I shouldn't have titled the thread ProTips.. just thought it might catch the attention of the "super-aliens" running insane times i see over on the seasonals board.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Here's an illustration concerning where to shift. This is from 450PP TransAm I tuned if memory serves. In this case the power curve is flat (detuned for that purpose) between 3600 and 4800 rpm. Obviously the best place to shift would be 4800 rpm and let the revs drop to 3600 in the next gear which is about where they end up. I've seen guys online many times in cars with similar power bands and they are taking it to the redline and just running on fumes the last 1200 rpm. I did some testing with this method in GT5 and compared optimum shifting to redline shifting in the Zonda C12 which has a similar power curve and it was about 1.2 seconds per lap at Road Course Indy, quite a difference.

.View attachment 93512​

 

[transpaqua]

Ah, I see now. I'll be sure to look at power curves more closely now. However, I'm a bit confused as to its layout on GT6.

Here's the curve for a stock 15th AE HSV-010. Is the RPM listed in the lower corner the redline at the end of the curve where it falls down, or RPMs at peak power, shown here as 591? Seems like the power curve display in GT5 was a bit more detailed, iirc.



Off-topic a bit for a second, but I've got to say this is by far the most open and welcoming gaming forum I've been a part of. A great spirit of open, helpful collaboration [and friendly competition over on the seasonal boards]. I've been a member for about a year, yet read far more than I post, as there is a wealth of information from this very dedicated community. Unlike another forum which shall go nameless... *cough, gamefaqs, cough*

Let's keep these tips coming, so that others in this situation who are wanting to better their knowledge and skill can hopefully learn from this thread as well.

 

[Vegard]

Here's the curve for a stock 15th AE HSV-010. Is the RPM listed in the lower corner the redline at the end of the curve where it falls down, or RPMs at peak power, shown here as 591?

10300(!) is the limiter, where the curves end.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ah, I see now. I'll be sure to look at power curves more closely now. However, I'm a bit confused as to its layout on GT6.
View attachment 139995

Here's the curve for a stock 15th AE HSV-010. Is the RPM listed in the lower corner the redline at the end of the curve where it falls down, or RPMs at peak power, shown here as 591? Seems like the power curve display in GT5 was a bit more detailed, iirc.

Off-topic a bit for a second, but I've got to say this is by far the most open and welcoming gaming forum I've been a part of. A great spirit of open, helpful collaboration [and friendly competition over on the seasonal boards]. I've been a member for about a year, yet read far more than I post, as there is a wealth of information from this very dedicated community. Unlike another forum which shall go nameless... *cough, gamefaqs, cough*

Let's keep these tips coming, so that others in this situation who are wanting to better their knowledge and skill can hopefully learn from this thread as well.

As @Vegard notes, the power graphs in GT are a joke and absolutely shameful that they have any place in a 6th generation "sim".

I guesstimate on the graph. There are 7 spaces in the graph, I take the 2 end spaces as 1.5 times the middle 5 making 8 total. If you take the very right edge of the graph as 11,000 then divide by 8 you get 1375. That makes the two end spaces 2060 and the middle 5 1375. That makes the 6th vertical line 11000-2060 or just under 9000 rpm. That would make your ideal shift point maybe 9200-9400 rpm.

And I agree about the community. If you need help of any kind, people are always willing to give friendly advice and it's nice to see. The debates do get heated sometimes and some people can't take that and should avoid discussion threads altogether, but asking for help brings out the absolute best of this community. Go

 

[transpaqua]

10300(!) is the limiter, where the curves end.

Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, the Honda HSV-010 SuperGT is pretty high strung.
Also, that video is amazing, thanks for sharing. I'll be studying it for sure.

Here's how I prepared for the 24 Hours of Le Mans in GT5.



The car "suffered" from a turbo waste gate stuck open, producing an estimated 1100 bhp during qualifying.

Blundell on his lap - "Every input was pure reflex -- things were coming at me everywhere I looked. For about 50 percent of the lap I felt like I was on the verge of a massive accident."

 

[86Debris86]

still find myself stomping around for a clutch at red lights in my new auto trans car. Old habits die hard I suppose.

Off topic (I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said) but I never realised how hard I had to press the clutch in my old Peugeot 205 until I drove my Dad's auto Audi A8. I caught the break pedal going for the clutch that wasn't there and damn well nearly stood the thing on it's nose! Good times!

 

[WillywellW]

For some background on my skill level, I'd consider myself of average to slightly-above average, and have been with the series since GT3. Drive with no aids except ABS 1 on a DS3, as a wheel setup just isn't really in the budget right now [Music equipment eats all my disposable income ]

About a month ago finally made the switch to Manual Transmission. Totally worth it, and a far more engaging experience. Loving it. Kind of surprised how much just 2nd and 3rd gear can accomplish!

I've golded nearly everything, except License S4 & S5, and that danged SuperGT500 IA Mission. [consistently a tenth off, grrrrrr ] Only seasonal I've missed gold on was the Hudson @ Streets of Willow. Hit the top 200 in the Lotus Race Car @ Brands Hatch somehow.

Have a pretty firm grasp on cornering theory, done a fair bit of research into it.

Anyways, I feel my main area that needs improvement is how to adjust my lines/driving style to different drivetrains, and how to make the most out of the switch to driving a manual gearbox.

Mostly do single player time trials in untuned/mild power-add-on street cars, its kind of like my zen relaxation thing I suppose. Usually drive FR and MR cars, but I seem to be struggling with AWD due to the understeer. Not so much with a Skyline, but I feel I'm leaving tons of time on the track in something like an Evo/Impreza.

So, any fellow GTPlaneteers have some advice for how to adjust driving styles to each drivetrain configuration? Also, any help with where in the powerband to shift and/or a discussion of the pro's & cons of short shifting, or any other advanced strategy in regards to driving a stick?
Thanks in advance.

How about studying how the grip works, that really help me moved up from having difficulty obtaining gold licenses to obtaining all gold in few tries.

 

[Gr8888T]

Oops how do I delete a post

 

[Mirado_7]

@rosckolove Not being on a wheel, seems like there's no way I can be competitive online, so I just work on self-improvement.

There are many very fast people on ds3, so don't sell yourself short there. A lot of good advice in here.

In many competitive situations people rise (or fall) to the level of those around them. So my advice would be to get online, maybe join a league, and race against people you know are faster than you. Take the plunge and don't look back, you'll be surprised how fast you improve when there are bragging rights waiting at the finish line.