Quick question on downforce?

[drivehard]

If I feel comfortable with a lower downforce setting on a car is that the end of it? Meaning is it ultimately driver preference?

A lot of tuners max out downforce and if I bring it down in the rear I find the car much more agreeable. Shouldn't that be all for the better? Dosen't that mean the car will simply have less drag and handle more like I would prefer? Or am I missing something?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[budious]

You have to account for a lot of variables. Such a vague question doesn't have a clear answer. If you can run a car or track with less downforce then more power to you.

 

[CyKosis1973]

I think a lot in this game is preference. I mostly use other people’s good work for building cars. Then tailor a few bits. I'm learning to build my own from scratch, slowly. Asides from gearing, aero is probably the most frequent thing I'll change. A lot of the builds I use from here (and elsewhere), I will reduce or entirely remove down force. My preference is a sloppy rear end. But if the track requires that the rear end needs to be tighter, Nordschleife for instance, I'll crank it back up.

A lot of my driving time is against mates online, so pin point precision isn't the best. I need a car to be a tad suppler, to be able to take a hit and be able to make it through a corner when I'm off the racing line. I don't do Time Trialling really. I use a controller and I'm usually drinking/drunk and having a laugh with the chaps.

Build it how you like it man, don't worry about being a slave to the figures...

{Cy}

 

[HKS racer]

With tuned road cars you don't have the whole aerokit, if you add downforce (i.e. 10) to the rear you may need 5 to the front. Lot ot times there is no way to add that downforce in the front end, so if the car understeer too much try decreasing the rear end until you feel you are running with a balanced car.

 

[marshy10156]

Also lowering downforce helps in PP limit races online as you can reduce Aero and add power and lower weight (handy on tracks such as Monza, Le Mans, High Speed Ring, etc.)

 

[Adrenaline]

It all boils down to lap times. If less downforce produces faster laps, you'd be crazy not to do it. If it doesn't, then you have to decide if you prefer 'feel' or 'speed'.

 

[killerjimbag]

If I feel comfortable with a lower downforce setting on a car is that the end of it? Meaning is it ultimately driver preference?

A lot of tuners max out downforce and if I bring it down in the rear I find the car much more agreeable. Shouldn't that be all for the better? Dosen't that mean the car will simply have less drag and handle more like I would prefer? Or am I missing something?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

It is not simple to explain its called the Bernoulli Effect.Hopefully this makes it easier.

Read this.

http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132

Try this link also.Click on the tech articles for explanation.It explains frontal and rear downforce.

http://aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=44

Watch this and you can see lift in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olVJzVadiFs

Here is the Bernoulli Effect at its worst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teTYm61oPVo&feature=related

 

[esoxhntr]

It's about balancing front vs rear.

In cars that cannot have adjustable downforce settings in the front, putting on a shopping kart wing on the back and maxing it out can (and most likely, would) be detrimental. It will cause understeer that gets progressively worse the faster the corner is. You can compensate to a degree with suspension settings, particularly stiffer rear however, since the amount of downforce generated by a wing is variable (higher speed = more downforce, less speed = less downforce) and suspension settings are not you will never get a car that is balanced at all/most speeds. if you have your rear downforce set high and compensate with a stiff rear suspension to balance the car on high speed corners, you will lose low speed cornering ability.

To take full advantage of the rear wing on non-race cars, PD needs to give us adjustable front aero components as well. This way you're not compensating for the variable effects of the rear wing with static suspension settings but rather the front "wing" is doing the work to balance the car - and it too, is variable.

 

[Motor City Hami]

A lot of tuners max out downforce and if I bring it down in the rear I find the car much more agreeable. Shouldn't that be all for the better? Dosen't that mean the car will simply have less drag and handle more like I would prefer? Or am I missing something?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I have been tuning using downforce to balance the car. You'll see maxed front and less than max rear on many of my tunes. The cars feel right, but I'm finding that the lap times are just a tick off some of the other tuners. I now am playing with max downforce and using the LSD and suspension settings to find the car's balance.

It's unfortunate to have to max out a tune because, in my opinion, it is no longer a tuning option - just max it. But it looks like the GT5 programmers like downforce and it has a strong affect on grip and lap times, even in low speed corners.

 

[KTZ]

downforce will stick ur car to the road. It will make ur car better in corners , you will have more grip too but the max speed will be reduced. just find the good setting.

 

[Morgoth_666]

The general idea usually goes something like "run the least downforce you can possibly run without losing lap time." Adding downforce is among the easiest ways(especially for us non-professionals) to make a car faster overall and make lap times more consistent. But it will reduce high-speed acceleration(the rear usually has a much larger effect on this than the front). Basically, the more mechanical grip you can get with tuning, and the closer to the limit you can consistently drive, lap after lap, the lower the downforce you will be able to run.

But the single most important thing in setup is how comfortable the driver is in the car. It doesn't matter how "fast" it is, if you can't get your best out of it nearly every lap. So there's no 100% "correct" setup to any part of it.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Didn't someone do a test a month or so ago and found that max downforce doesn't really affect top speed? Like very little top speed difference?

 

[Adrenaline]

Didn't someone do a test a month or so ago and found that max downforce doesn't really affect top speed? Like very little top speed difference?

Yea, I remember seeing something like that.
I've always used Indy Speedway to back up my thoughts on downforce.
The ZR1 is when I realized, downforce gives far more advantages through the corners than it sacrifices in straight away speed.

 

[PINION 6]

If I feel comfortable with a lower downforce setting on a car is that the end of it? Meaning is it ultimately driver preference?

A lot of tuners max out downforce and if I bring it down in the rear I find the car much more agreeable. Shouldn't that be all for the better? Dosen't that mean the car will simply have less drag and handle more like I would prefer?

Yes it does.........
It all comes down to ballance, If you run both front and rear downforce at maximum then drop the rear your car will steer quicker but have a tendancy to oversteer, if you drop the front your car will have a stable back end a the expence of turning speed also it will make your car understeer, this is what we call aerodynamic balence and is diferent for every car.
For a slow tight stop start type track [monaco] you would use maximum downforce.
For a high speed track [High Speed Ring ect] you would use low downforce.
Downforce ultimately slows you down so run the least you can get away with, car's will turn faster with higher downforce and feel it on the straits, car's with low downforce will feel it in the bend's.

 

[PINION 6]

Didn't someone do a test a month or so ago and found that max downforce doesn't really affect top speed? Like very little top speed difference?

Depend's on the car, an EVO maybe a little....Around 5-10mph i'ed say
An F1 car, Escudo ect, anything with BIG wings is affected BIGtime...30mph+

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

It is not simple to explain its called the Bernoulli Effect.Hopefully this makes it easier.

Read this.

http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132

Try this link also.Click on the tech articles for explanation.It explains frontal and rear downforce.

http://aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=44

Watch this and you can see lift in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olVJzVadiFs

Here is the Bernoulli Effect at its worst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teTYm61oPVo&feature=related

Actually, the last one was the suspension settings, not the downforce. LOL eh?

 

[chattimus]

This is a good question but in my opinion tuning wise i always seem to go faster with the downforce maxed. In the toyota gt one i tested this and lowere the downforce by five points both front and rear and saw no improvement on friggin de la sarthe top speed wise??? Go figure, to me it seems like some areas are a given like downforce and some areas no matter how extreme i get it doesnt make a damn bit of differnce, and then some like toe angle make a huge differnce. But i geuss this is the real driving simulator not tuning simulator.

 

[Ronald6]

IMHO aero downforce isn't well modeled in GT5. Nothing to the level of NASCAR 2, and I remember playing that at least 12 years ago. Come to think of it that sim also had tyre temps for inner, mid, and outer tyre and you could alter the tyre pressure. Sigh...

The few choices on non-RM cars for aero effects is noticable, as is the lack of effect at high speed. A F1 with maxed aero should behave like its pulling a parachute behind it. It could take a low speed corner much faster, but its top speed should be Drastically reduced.

Perhaps its this lack if high speed effect that imbalances tuners toward maxed aero?

Its the biggest flaw in the physics that I've seen. Perhaps that's why I like the Fireblade so much.

 

[chris speed]

Hi, a lot depends on driving style and the track. Pesonally I don't max out the front wing anymore, makes the car too tight (overstear) usually around 50% is good for me, but the rear wing I usually set to about 80% of the max. Camber also affects the handling in conjunction with the wing, I'm usually around -2 to -2.4 front and -1 to -1.4 rear.

 

[oopssorryy]

It'll also depend on the type of track. A track with a lot of low sped corners you'll probably do better with low settings or no wing at all. With a track with mid speed corners, a mild setting will do well. And High speed corners will do well with high settings. At least you'll notice better lap times like this. I go by feel rather than times and usually end up with a car that will produce good lap times consistently instead of my fastest lap once.

 

[drivehard]

If I run max aero at the ring and then take off 5 points in the rear my lap times are always faster. All time is gained in the corners.

 

[GrimSinn]

In GT4 it was maxed DF or slower laps, the modeling was crap for DF. In GT5 you can get a higher top speed & quicker lap around corners with a lower setting tuned to your feel and style. There are always + & - to everything. Higher DF usually = lower top speed, increased stability at speed, lower acceleration, lower braking distances. Lower DF = higher top speed, less stable at speeds, increased acceleration, longer braking distances.

In the corners it's a lot to do with driving style and personal preference, sometimes our preferred style is not necessarily the fastest while being most enjoyable to us. I like to power out of corners with a little counter steering, I know I'm losing a lil speed with the tail sliding a bit, but it's fun. I don't keep full DF on my cars, but that's just me.