Re: Soldiers are Heroes...

[Gil]

I felt compelled to write this when I got a request to join a Facebook group about not deleting a group whose purpose was to honor all military personnel as "Heroes".
I may offend some of you, especially if you don't read to the end...


As a former military man who served on the last ship to fire on Beirut in 1984, Who was under the Space Shuttle Challenger when it exploded and our ship helped pick up the pieces (literally) for days afterward....

There are heroes in the military. For example:
Guys who risk their ass under fire to save their buddies.
Guys and gals that exhibit conspicuous valor on the field of battle.
Guys and gals who, as medics, rush onto the battlefield to rescue and provide aid to the fallen.

The rest of us are ordinary people. You may be sitting next to one on the subway. We felt that there was a job that needed to be done so we volunteered to help do it.

Thank you, kindly, for honoring that, but I for one am no "hero".

I'm not baggin' on anyone here. Please don't get that idea. It just makes me uncomfortable, cause in my mind "Heroes" are "larger than life", they are "inspirations to us all".

I'm just a regular guy, and I figure a lot of us that have put on the uniform feel the same way. I've NEVER been in close combat, and I've had to see things that were horrible.

The guys in actual close combat have seen even worse.

The medals are nice, the fanfare is nice.
But PLEASE Remember that we are flesh and blood people that have found ourselves in pretty awful situations:
So, when we get home, assure us that we are loved.
Let go of the person we were when we left, and embrace the person we've become.
Help us re-integrate into "the world". Cause that place we were, and the things that we had to do weren't of "the world" and coping with the weight of being a "hero" can be a lot to bear.

Gil's definitions of "Hero":
1. A hero is a regular guy that when everyone else was pulling back to safety, ran the wrong way. He encountered some **** that he needed to deal with to get to safety, and perhaps get a buddy or two to safety, so he did what needed done.

2. A hero is a guy who saw a friend in danger in the course of battle, and went to help him. Either by eliminating the danger, or dragging his friend away from the danger.

3. This country, and many others, erect monuments to commemorate the acts of heros, most folks call them tombstones. But in places like the veteran's cemetary on Ft Leavenworth, the National Cemetary at Arlington, Va, and other similar places that guys like me go to remember our brothers and sisters in arms.

 

[Danoff]

Agreed.

My sister was in the Army and I can guarantee that she doesn't qualify for hero status. I think it's important to be defensive of these words, because when they get applied too loosely they lose their meaning... and occasionally you'll need that word to really mean something.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm in agreement too. The term hero is banded about so frequently that when someone does something genuinely heroic, the impact is lost.

 

[DK]

There are some people in the army who weren't heroes. Hitler served in the German army in WW1 and he was no hero. He died a coward's death, IMO.

 

[Gil]

Agreed.

My sister was in the Army and I can guarantee that she doesn't qualify for hero status. I think it's important to be defensive of these words, because when they get applied too loosely they lose their meaning... and occasionally you'll need that word to really mean something.

Dan, you always take what I say, boil out the crap and get to what I meant in like 3-5 lines. 👍

 

[Eric.]

Amen.


It bugs me seeing all of the guys running around in their Army uniforms when they go out shopping somewhere. Do they want me to go worship the ground they are walking on?


Probably really going to crush some toes here, but every single person who dies in the military isn't a "hero". That word is there to sound nice and make the family feel the loved one didn't die without a reason. Say someone takes a sniper bullet out of nowhere, or an IED, or some other death out of nowhere. They weren't fighting. They weren't supporting anything. They were little more than an innocent bystander that got killed.

A guy manning an AA gun in the midst of an aerial assault, a skilled fighter pilot who saves the day in the sky, the sniper who prevents the escape of a wanted target, and the men who are in the firefights, on the front lines, in the buildings, face to face with somebody who wants every last American soldier dead. Those are the ones who deserve hero status.

Hero = A person who fights to save somebody.

Soldier = A person in the military.


Don't confuse them.

 

[Northstar]

I agree.

While I do support them as much as I can I can't say they are heroes. I can't even agree that they are defending our freedom since we are not at risk of a foreign power taking it away from us(our own govt. is a different story).

I don't mind when someone calls a soldier they personally know their hero though since a personal hero is way different from an actual hero.

 

[nk4e]

Amen.


It bugs me seeing all of the guys running around in their Army uniforms when they go out shopping somewhere. Do they want me to go worship the ground they are walking on?

From my understanding, once they get back from basic. They go back to the same place they got recruited in and try to recruit some more people. But also, its to show; I would say...; A new person, like they have changed and the fact the army has changed them. My best friend is a Hero, I don't think I would have the courage to stick with his plan though his buddy flaked on him for a girl.( then his friend goes into the army after all) ( I believed that he had some of his pals KIA also..very tragic..) Gil, I don't think that you have offended anyone on this site.

 

[Gil]

Amen.


It bugs me seeing all of the guys running around in their Army uniforms when they go out shopping somewhere. Do they want me to go worship the ground they are walking on?

Actually, until you make E-4 some commands require that you apply for a "chit" that grants permission to wear civvies.

Also, most soldiers come from the less "well to do" of our great nation.
And if like me, they lost 30-40 lbs in boot camp (220 to 185 in 11 short weeks) Their old clothes don't fit, and the paltry pay that is recieved by an E-1 is not enough to do much to rectify that.

 

[Eric.]

I'm not meaning in places anywhere near a base though. They're home on leave for whatever reason, and hanging out in malls, Best Buy, etc. At the state fair it makes some sense as the military has its presence at a few stands with information, tents, Humvees, etc, and they are helping represent.

 

[nk4e]

I just remember my friend saying when he came back from boot. That he can't wear civvies out in public, but he wore some while he was at home.

 

[Gil]

Well, as a sailor I HATED wearing my "Crackerjacks" and my undress Blues/Whites (dependening on the season) off base.
"Urban camo" (civvies) decreased your being targeted by any locals that weren't fond of military types.
Though our haircuts usually made us stand out as well. LOL

Not too many guys in the '80s wandering about with "high and tight" coifs, and walking in step.

 

[tyl0r_r]

The type of solider who I could reference by just posting all those pics that came out from Guantanamo are no heros to me and there's a hell of a lot of soldiers like that.

There's also a lot of soldiers who, as Gil (who I guess would know) pointed out, are straight up poor or at least not well off at all financially and who join the military in order to secure themselves a future. That's fine. But it doesn't make you a hero. I can relate to the financial situation but I personally would rather die in a ditch than serve a day in any armed forces.

I'm not flame baiting, I just think it takes a hell of a lot more to deserve the title of hero than to put on your uniform and do the job you signed up to do in the first place. For every legitimate hero, there's probably a thousand jar heads who are in it because to be honest they are unemployable anywhere else or because they desperately want to prove to themselves that they have some worth. That's just my experience.

 

[TheCracker]

A hero isn't someone who is paid to do a job. Perhaps doing above and beyond what that job calls for might qualify someone as a hero (a soldier or fireman etc for example, in certain circumstances)

 

[Gil]

The type of solider who I could reference by just posting all those pics that came out from Guantanamo are no heros to me and there's a hell of a lot of soldiers like that.

There's also a lot of soldiers who, as Gil (who I guess would know) pointed out, are straight up poor or at least not well off at all financially and who join the military in order to secure themselves a future. That's fine. But it doesn't make you a hero. I can relate to the financial situation but I personally would rather die in a ditch than serve a day in any armed forces.

I'm not flame baiting, I just think it takes a hell of a lot more to deserve the title of hero than to put on your uniform and do the job you signed up to do in the first place. For every legitimate hero, there's probably a thousand jar heads who are in it because to be honest they are unemployable anywhere else or because they desperately want to prove to themselves that they have some worth. That's just my experience.

In point of fact, I joined the Navy to get the money to pay for college/learn enough about electronics to make that my career post military.
I do have a medal for assisting in the recovery of what was left of the Space Shuttle Challenger. But the entire crew got the same medal.

I also lived in a "geezer rich" environment (with a LARGE military base as a backdrop) when I 18. Most of my friends dad's were active duty or retired military as was my own dad.
Not a large leap to see how so many of us in my graduating class ended up in the military.

I was just a guy doing my job, that happened to have to wear a uniform to get it done.
I've been in some situations, while in the military, that could have bred some heroes. Thankfully, they did not escalate to that point.

 

[Small_Fryz]

"CAPTAIN ED W. FREEMAN
UNITED STATES ARMY

Captain Ed W. Freeman, United States Army, of Boise, Idaho, who distinguished himself by numerous acts of conspicuous gallantry and extraordinary intrepidity on 14 November 1965 while serving with Company A, 229th Assault Helicopter Battalion, 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). As a flight leader and second in command of a 16-helicopter lift unit, he supported a heavily engaged American infantry battalion at Landing Zone X-Ray in the Ia Drang Valley, Republic of Vietnam. The unit was almost out of ammunition after taking some of the heaviest casualties of the war, fighting off a relentless attack from a highly motivated, heavily armed enemy force. When the infantry commander closed the helicopter landing zone because of intense direct enemy fire, Captain Freeman risked his life by flying his unarmed helicopter through a gauntlet of enemy fire time after time, delivering critically needed ammunition, water, and medical supplies to the besieged battalion. His flights, by providing the engaged units with supplies of ammunition critical to their survival, directly affected the battle's outcome. Without them the units would almost surely have gone down, with much greater loss of life. After medical evacuation helicopters refused to fly into the area because of intense enemy fire, Captain Freeman flew 14 separate rescue missions, providing lifesaving evacuation of an estimated 30 seriously wounded soldiers-some of whom would not have survived had he not acted. All flights were made into a small emergency landing zone within 100 to 200 meters of the defensive perimeter, where heavily committed units were perilously holding off the attacking elements. Captain Freeman's selfless acts of great valor and extraordinary perseverance were far above and beyond the call of duty or mission and set a superb example of leadership and courage for all of his peers. Captain Freeman's extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army."

Thats what i think of when i hear the term hero get thrown around

 

[Sphinx]

The type of solider who I could reference by just posting all those pics that came out from Guantanamo are no heros to me and there's a hell of a lot of soldiers like that.

There's also a lot of soldiers who, as Gil (who I guess would know) pointed out, are straight up poor or at least not well off at all financially and who join the military in order to secure themselves a future. That's fine. But it doesn't make you a hero. I can relate to the financial situation but I personally would rather die in a ditch than serve a day in any armed forces.

I'm not flame baiting, I just think it takes a hell of a lot more to deserve the title of hero than to put on your uniform and do the job you signed up to do in the first place. For every legitimate hero, there's probably a thousand jar heads who are in it because to be honest they are unemployable anywhere else or because they desperately want to prove to themselves that they have some worth. That's just my experience.

Your post triggered a memory that I've not thought about for decades. It was when my brother served in Northan Ireland in the 70's. He came home on leave and played me a song, I must've been about 15 at the time. He played it to me because he wanted to highlight to me the true meaning of the word 'hero'.

Thank you for that. 👍

I took the time to hunt down a suitable video containing the song on YouTube that was written as a tribute to Sergeant Michael G. Willets, 27, 3 Para. He gave his life to save others.

Soldier​

​

The sacrifice of Sergeant Michael G. Willets, 27, 3 Para.

On the evening of the 25th May 1971 an IRA terrorist entered the reception hall of Springfield Road Police station in Belfast. He carried a suitcase from which a smoking fuse protruded, dumping the case on the floor he fled out-side, inside the room were a man a woman and two children and several police officers. One of the police officers raised the alarm then began organising an evacuation of the hall through the reception office.

Sgt Willetts was on duty in the inner hall, on hearing the alarm he sent an NCO to the first floor to warn those above and hastened himself to the door towards which the police officer was thrusting those in the reception hall and office.

He held the door open while all passed safely through and then stood in the doorway shielding those taking cover.

In the next moment the bomb exploded with terrible force. Sgt Willetts was mortally wounded. His duty did not require him to enter the threatened area. All those people who were approaching the door from the far side agreed that if they had had to check to open the door, They would have perished.

Sgt Willetts waited, placing his body as a screen to shelter them.

By this act of bravery, he risked and lost his life for those of the adults and children.

Sgt Michael Willetts was awarded the George Cross (Posthumous).

Republicans jeered when the ambulance arrived, but Willets had saved Catholic civilians and children.

 

[nk4e]

Reading that article, to some people IRA may be heroes

 

[Sphinx]

Reading that article, to some people IRA may be heroes

Yes, I guess you're are correct in your assumption, but it misses the point entirely because using the term 'hero' for any group is using it too loosely for what it is intended to signify. Some, or should I say many, also believe that all British and American soldiers fighting in Afghanistan are hero's, "our hero's abroad" for example, but that doesn't make it true in the real sense of being a hero. I focused on one man who died to save others, others who hated him for what he stood for as it happens, but it doesn't matter if he was , British, Irish Republican, American or whatever. It was his selfless act, and not who he was fighting for that made him a hero.

 

[theewar]

Yes, I guess you're are correct in your assumption, but it misses the point entirely because using the term 'hero' for any group is using it too loosely for what it is intended to signify. Some, or should I say many, also believe that all British and American soldiers fighting in Afghanistan are hero's, "our hero's abroad" for example, but that doesn't make it true in the real sense of being a hero. I focused on one man who died to save others, others who hated him for what he stood for as it happens, but it doesn't matter if he was , British, Irish Republican, American or whatever. It was his selfless act, and not who he was fighting for that made him a hero.

Well said Jerry 👍

 

[allent2]

I do believe that the word hero is over used and does seem less meaningful when applied to the truly deserving because of that. But I think the members of our armed forces do deserve the utmost respect. We belong to less then 2% of the population that makes up a all-volunteer force, men and women who in a time of war, join knowing that the papers they sign will put them in the fight. People that have that kind of courage may not deserve the title of hero but do deserve respect. I understand the argument that the guy who gets picked off by a sniper or dies before he can even react might not earn the title of hero in your eyes, but I fell you are forgetting the hardship he or she will go through before that day ever comes, its much deeper than self, family goes through allot as well. If thier under hostile fire (in the senero we are speaking) its because they were ordered to be there and just because they didn’t directly save anyone’s life (take in to account once again they volunteered, and because of many others like them they keep civilians form a draft) shouldn’t discredit them as a soldier, and if the country they serve wants to credit them as a hero, that’s justified and deserving.

 

[Mark T]

Some heroic action in this news story.

 

[Stevisiov]

Wow, that's quite a story.

 

[Public'sTwin]

Some heroic action in this news story.

IMO, those Chinook helicopters should be taken out of service and replaced with a more capable and maneuverable helicopter. Canada's lost too many troops to their unwieldyness. Kudos to the pilot for staying cool under pressure. (Admittedly, quite an understatement. . .)

 

[Vince_Fiero]

I do agree that soldiers are not always heros. (e.g. the logistics person that stays behind)
And military action is not always heroic. (political or economic reasons can be the motivation)

But the military do earn respect from people that are sitting on the side, not taking the same commitment for the community.
To spur out criticism and not contribute to a safe community like the military do seems too easy and not helping much.

 

[SpawnBlack]

I hate soldiers for the fact that the Gov't, any Gov't have decided that if they want something they will organise a group and train them to kill just for oil or gold and other materials that have been here a far lot longer than Human Beings. Saying that I dont quite like the Gov't, any Gov't. They all are killers as anyone else who is in the Gov't or the Military. I know you said that you do not believe in God, but the ones who do should know that it is wrong to kill. Humans are here to get on and achieve great things together. Those who are in the Military and Gov't have no remorse for what they do and will continue to do so. But hey....there's nothing anyone can do about it because us normal folk dont have Weapons of mass destruction like the powerful government's across the world ,so we have already lost.

 

[Keef]

Why do you hate soldiers? They're simply following orders.

 

[tyl0r_r]

I hate soldiers for the fact that the Gov't, any Gov't have decided that if they want something they will organise a group and train them to kill just for oil or gold and other materials that have been here a far lot longer than Human Beings. Saying that I dont quite like the Gov't, any Gov't. They all are killers as anyone else who is in the Gov't or the Military. I know you said that you do not believe in God, but the ones who do should know that it is wrong to kill. Humans are here to get on and achieve great things together. Those who are in the Military and Gov't have no remorse for what they do and will continue to do so. But hey....there's nothing anyone can do about it because us normal folk dont have Weapons of mass destruction like the powerful government's across the world ,so we have already lost.

Hate based on generalization is foolish. You seem like the type who would wear a t shirt with a big red anarchy symbol on it but would still have no idea who Mikhail Bakunin, for example, would be.

Unless there's a world state, which would be super IMO, individual states are going to have militaries. They function in many ways not included in your incredibly narrow view.

If you think all people involved in all government are essentially ruthless killers, you just plain don't know any history.

I can't believe I'm writing a post defending government and military, but for the love of God your post was so very made of fail.

EDIT:

Why do you hate soldiers? They're simply following orders.

To be honest, that's a really good reason to dislike them, in my opinion.

 

[wfooshee]

I hate soldiers for the fact that the Gov't, any Gov't have decided that if they want something they will organise a group and train them to kill just for oil or gold and other materials that have been here a far lot longer than Human Beings. Saying that I dont quite like the Gov't, any Gov't. They all are killers as anyone else who is in the Gov't or the Military. I know you said that you do not believe in God, but the ones who do should know that it is wrong to kill. Humans are here to get on and achieve great things together. Those who are in the Military and Gov't have no remorse for what they do and will continue to do so. But hey....there's nothing anyone can do about it because us normal folk dont have Weapons of mass destruction like the powerful government's across the world ,so we have already lost.

If your mind were any narrower, there would be absolute blackness, no light at all.

Hmm . . . . .

People don't join the military so they can go kill. The military doesn't exist to go out into the world and kill. The military exists because there are people and nations out there who would go out and just kill, and someone has to be ready to stand in their way.

The US military is completely voluntary. There is no compelled service at any level of the population. Every last soldier, sailor, airman, marine, coastie, whoever, is there because they went down to the recruiter's office and signed up of their own free will.

The US military is educated. Every enlisted has a diploma or GED, and GEDs are not widely accepted. Every officer has a college degree or higher.

These are not thugs.

As the proud father of a soldier who has served since before 9-11, who has moved through the ranks from Private to Sergeant and attended ROTC and is now an active officer, who has saved lives (both American and Iraqi) while serving in Baghdad using his 2 years of Army medical training, I completely and thoroughly and without limit or reservation resent your ignorant and foolish characterizations.

BTW, saying that "knowing God" would show us that it's "wrong to kill" is just as naive as your attitude towards soldiers. What do you think these terrorists use to "justify" their cowardice and murder? We worship differently from them, so they believe we have to be killed. Simple as that. You gonna sit home and wait for them to come down the street, or do you want a strong wall of soldiers in tanks between you and them?

 

[tyl0r_r]

People don't join the military so they can go kill. The military doesn't exist to go out into the world and kill. The military exists because there are people and nations out there who would go out and just kill, and someone has to be ready to stand in their way.


These are not thugs.

Unfortunately you are generalizing just as much as he is but from the opposite point of view.

None of them are thugs? Then what the hell happened in Guantanamo Bay? Remember those pictures of soldiers with their playthings, IE other human beings? Those scum were thugs.

Not everyone who joins the military does so to kill things, not everyone who joins the military is an uneducated idiot.

But there are people who join the military because they want to go to battle and kill. I've met some real jerks who are soldiers who've pretty much told me as much. I've met some real nice ones who would help me move a car from a snowbank, too. The fact that they have to have a high school education seems to be some sort of magic criteria for you. Honestly, that's a pretty low standard. There are innumerable idiots with high school educations, just because you need more academia to hold a rifle for the government then to scrub their toilets certainly doesn't mean the ones with the guns are suddenly genuinely intelligent people in every case.

It's ridiculous to hold his position, yeah, but yours doesn't seem any better to me.

And as far as the bit about understanding God, I always thought turning the other cheek and "Thou Shalt Not Kill" were a big deal. But apparently they can be applied selectively, right? This "are you gonna wait for them to come down the street" thing is crap. America was attacked on American soil in what, three locations on one day, a decade ago almost. They aren't hiding in the bushes ready to pounce on you, they're in caves in freaking Afghanistan.

I wish people weren't so perpetually afraid, it clouds judgement.