Replays issues

[Tedehur]

I've just read carefully what had been going on today about dirty replays, and since it's the third time we discuss this topic in 4 weeks, it's definitely worth having a thread dedicated to that. Hopefully that'll help us to have a better structured approach.

I must admit that half of the posts I read were just pure crap : pointless personal attack ; pointless reply to a pointless personal attack ; pointless reply to a pointless reply to a pointless personal attack, and so on. As if everybody wanted to post the last word. I found it totally unnecessary but ok, I guess such things have to be said and then people feel better

The other half of the posts was much more relevant and therefore much more interesting. I do agree with most of what has been said :

• I don't think that any dirty time has been submitted knowingly, since everybody knows that all posted replays are checked ;
• I wish people were paying more attention to their own replay before submitting because :
• It is disrepectful towards all other racers not to make sure that your lap is clean.

Although I agree with them on most points, I'd like to tone down what Dion and Jerry had been saying. Submitting a lap that turns out to be dirty is a big deal in the way that it is harmful to the WRS as a group of racers. This week is a perfect example of that. Yet, it is harmless towards the results since it is easily detected and consistently disqualified.
And if the concerned racer doesn't want to comment on his dirty lap, it's his credibility which suffers from it, as Niels pointed out. I don't see as part of my role to demand explanations about it.
I wouldn't draw a line between good ol' times and good ol' racers who thoroughly check their replays or have them checked by someone else when in doubt, and newbies who just don't care.

It happens quite often that someone PMs me because he's not certain if his lap is clean, and I check it myself if he's PAL or redirect him to someone else if he's NTSC. Not many of these cases are posted in the threads and most of them remain unknown to other racers.
On the other hand, I've checked 2 years ago a replay from an old timer, well known and highly respected on many boards, which had won a race while using the wrong type of tyres (softer than what was allowed). I believe it was a mistake, and as a newbie at that time I had kept my mouth shut. But don't tell me that all long time racers are all 100% clean.

That leads me to another point.
Sadly we notice that too many dirty laps are being discovered. And we think that a certain couldn't-give-a-damn attitude accounts for that. I believe that it is a correct explanation, but I also believe that it was also the case in the past. I haven't worked out the figures yet, but I'd like to know how many replays have been checked since I took over the WRS in november last year, and compare this to how many replays had been checked in the past.

I just take a random example : week 96 of the GT3 WRS. 18 times were submitted, 6 replays posted. But how many have really been checked ? The thread doesn't mention this. Moreover, Ben posts his replay and ask in the same post : I'm still not sure whether I had the right rear tire on the rumble strip through the chicane, but I've looked at it many times in the replay, and it seems to my untrained eyes that it is on. I'd appreciate if someone could view it and make sure that it is clean.
So where was the in doubt don't submit rule in december 2004 ?

Don't get me wrong : I don't mean any offence to Ben or Kent or anyone else. I'm just trying to show that things are not as different as many old-timers say they were.

What are the solutions now ?
Who has a great idea to make all racers realize that despite all the competition which is going on, the WRS is based mainly on mutual respect and fair-play if not friendship. Should we replace the Qualifier by an essay to be written by each new member about what he/she can bring to the WRS ?
Should we ban for one week any racer who submits a dirty lap ?

Edit :
You'd better jump to post #5 now or else you'll be totally puzzled.

 

[Small_Fryz]

And it is a big deal when you get a DQ, this is why so many "top" racers who have done 100's of combos only have 1 and definetly not more than 2 DQ's in all the years they have raced. If they didnt take DQ's seriously then you can bet that the number of DQ's would rise.

Think of it like a seatbelt in your car. Have you ever not worn it? that is because you take it seriously, if you didnt care about seatbelts and didnt take them seriously do you think you would wear them as much?

Edit
Your 1st post has been edited since i posted this...

 

[Tedehur]

I didn't say anything else. Being DQ'ed should be a big deal to any racer.

Edited after next post:
Sorry, I must be somewhat paranoid. It's 1am, I've been busy with the WRS for more than 4 hours now (didn't even notice when my wife went to bed ) so I'd better shut down the PC for today.

Re-edited after next and previous posts were edited :
Yeah, I had typed my first post in Notepad but the save option in the thread wouldn't work if I was pasting the whole text : so I had to copy/paste paragraphs one by one.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Edit, you edited your 1st post


Edit after the above post was edited... twice

No worries, post 2 was aimed at people who dont really give a toss, not at you personally , when i posted that you didnt address the issue in your 1st post. Now you have, but i like my ananolgy so i will leave it .

My mistake for not waiting...

 

[Casio]

I just don't think that someone submitting a dirty lap in anyway tanishes the reputation of the WRS and the people who compete in it.

In week 24, Jase86 was DQ'ed for an AI touch. No one accused him of cheating, or that he was being disrepectful to all the other racers. All that was said was:

but rules are rules, you must be gutted..

Even our current WRS mod said:

Big congrats to all promoted drivers, and jase too, whose li'l touch doesn't spoil the performance.

Fast Forward 6 months. And in Week 45 Shockwaveracing submitted a lap that was dirty in 4 places! Due to not reading the rules. Now no one jumped on his back, accussed him of ruining the WRS. Abusing him for not following simple rules. No. He made a honest mistake, and we all moved on.

The WRS currently has a huge trust basis. I don't check every single replay. I have to trust that.

A - The submitted lap is clean, even if a replay is not provided. (I have no reason to believe otherwise)
B - The person checking it is honest when they say 'X-lap is clean'.

If someone submits a lap that is dirty. The only persons reputation they are tanishing is theirs. Whether or not they provide a replay. You obviously would not deliberately submit a lap, then post your replay, if you knew that the lap was dirty. You would get found out 99% of the time.

 

[oldphart]

I've been following this, what ? trust isssue ? for the past few weeks. During which I DQ'd one race. I called out for a check on a certain corner at La Sarthe because I was not skilled enough to investigate it. Since then, I've learned.

A big point not to be forgotten here. Learning. As a newb it's my biggest challenge every week. The curve is huge ! Not just finding a line, or how to tune a car, but how to do OLR, and we're not even on-line yet !

I agree, the only reputation hurt with submission of a "knowingly" dirty lap is that of the driver. This is a wonderfull series that has allowed me to explore OLR. What constitutes a clean vs. dirty lap. Over the past few weeks I've learned to use more of the race track, taking it to the edge.

The rules are clear, just not explicit. Maybe some photos like from La Sarthe in the qualifier thread would be helpfull. That segment that Cyril put up settled a lot of discussion that week. Since then it seems everyone has been "riding the edge" in more ways than one.

So, take into consideration the duration the driver has been around. If they ask for a clarification on a lap, is that hiding ?

Cyril was right in that there were a lot of post that were, shall we say "off subject". The outcome of the electronic media we use. There is no tonal inclination of the words.

just .02 from a newb

 

[NielsG]

Good summary, Cyril. 👍



Just to get things straight once again. I don't wanna discuss cheating as I don't think it's the issue. Cheaters eventually get caught and only themselves can be held responsible. And I don't know where that issue is coming from. Here's some of my old posts:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2164596&postcount=71:

I know as a fact of life, that mistakes will happen from time to time, and they can happen to everybody.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2165323&postcount=88:

I don't think, nor do I claim, that the WRS is full of cheaters. If so I wouldn't race here. Simple as that.
And I'm sure, all the mistakes and all the dirty replay, that get submitted, each and everyone can be excused in the most reasonable way.

About sloppiness in replay checking and deliberately submitting doubtful replays. I think it has increased, other think it has not. That's not really important, the important thing is how we like it to be in the future.

I would like to see as few mistakes as possible. And I hope everybody will agree.

The big question is, how do we achieve that goal. My personal opinion is that we have to stick too:

• It IS a big deal submitting clean laps.
• It IS a honorable thing checking your replays properly.
• Submitting clean laps IS more important than driving fast.
• It IS important for the racers integrity too submit clean replays.

When I started in the OLR, submitting a dirty replay was the worst thing that could happen. Therefore I checked, double checked and triple checked. Some of the replay being submitted lately, clearly isn't checked good enough.



If I ever submit a dirty replay, I think it's very fair to step forward and tell me:

You idiot, why didn't you check your replay properly. ​

I think it would common decency for me to step forward and say:

I'm so sorry. I'm an idiot. Won't happen again. ​

And knowing that my reputation is at stake, I would quickly add:

Just to show it was a honest mistake, I'll go through the trouble and submit my replay the next 20 weeks. ​

It may sound stupid, but I DO get offended, when racers show up in a thread, where someone has been getting a DQ and start claiming: It's no big deal, It happens to everybody, don't think of it, it happened to me too etc.
I think that sends a very wrong signal. 👎



As we are a very different people it could be an idea to write down a moral code, where proper behavior on this issue was described.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Completly agree ^^ 👍

*added rep*

 

[MisterWeary]

What's worse:

A) A player submitting a replay that is found to be dirty
B) A player being unable to submit a replay for verification

I don't think anyone's implying that care shouldn't be taken before submitting laps, it most definitely should. However attacking people for making a mistake is unnecessary, particularly when they have willingly put themselves under the microscope. It's these attacks that have been getting me down.

I dedicate a good deal of time to this series and the subtle implications of credibility issues and the attacks on well-meaning racers disheartens me. Cyril made an excellent point about laps checked now vs laps checked pre-Cyril. The fact is: more laps submitted = more potential problems. It's our super-close scrutiny that should be praised rather than a few DQ's being focused on. All it proves is the new replay checking system really is working well. As a community we all chip in to watch each other's replays and more people own a MaxDrive today than I ever remember...the WRS really is a well-oiled machine that is working superbly 👍

I love a good metaphor so here goes nothing...How many people have received a fine from the Police? I've had two, and on neither occasion was I attacked by the officer, I was informed of my infringement, given my fine, removed of a couple of points and then let go. I feel a DQ is a similar situation. It's a faux pais (excuse my crappy French Cyril ) but not a reason to be attacked. Maybe a license type system or caution system would be appropriate for our situation, but casting stones over this is useless, how about we all drop the rocks, remove the log from our own eyes and have a go at swinging this Lancia around the Swiss Alps...isn't racing the whole reason we're here?!?

 

[fasj6418]

I love a good metaphor so here goes nothing...How many people have received a fine from the Police? I've had two, and on neither occasion was I attacked by the officer, I was informed of my infringement, given my fine, removed of a couple of points and then let go. I feel a DQ is a similar situation. It's a faux pais (excuse my crappy French Cyril ) but not a reason to be attacked. Maybe a license type system or caution system would be appropriate for our situation, but casting stones over this is useless, how about we all drop the rocks, remove the log from our own eyes and have a go at swinging this Lancia around the Swiss Alps...isn't racing the whole reason we're here?!?

that´s exactly the point... i believe sometimes people just don´t know how to discover if a replay is dirty... sometimes is very hard... i still can´t use the analizer properly...

i know nobody, nobody will agree with this idea, but i think it would be nice if we could do this: submit 2 replays and them people check... if the first is fine, then its a green flag... if the first is dirty, just validate the second and change the results... i don´t see why this would be wrong... i see no harm or disrespect... don´t know what you guys think...

 

[Hugo Boss]

Good posts by Cyril and Niels 👍

For me a player submitting a dirty lap is worse than a person that isn't able to supply a replay. I always deleted my replay or let somebody else check it if I wasn't sure. I always choose to submit a slower time that I am sure of over taking the risk of getting a dq. I also check my replay at least once after I saved it. This out of respect to the other drivers.
People make mistakes, but submitting a replay that appears to be dirty is just out of the question for me. Wrong car/track/tyres can happen once in a while, because you can make the assumption you're driving the right combo. But an AI touch, wall touch, more than 2 wheels off track is ALWAYS clear, or at least clear it's a close call. When you submit then anyway, you intent to cheat or you show disrespect by not having given a proper look at the replay. If you're uncertain but believe it's clean, leave a comment about that when you post the replay. That shows you've got respect to the other drivers and don't intend to cheat.

About you're metaphor, Misterweary.. I don't agree When I brake the rules in traffic, I break them on purpose. When I get caught and fined, the officer may flame me for not following the rules. Same story for submitting a dirty replay.

I don't want to create an agressive atmosphere, because it could well be that there will be more dq's in the near future. Therefore I think that only Cyril must be allowed to flame drivers for submitting a dq. Most drivers spend a lot of time on racing and do pay attention, so there's simply no excuse for submitting a dirty run.

 

[Tedehur]

i know nobody, nobody will agree with this idea, but i think it would be nice if we could do this: submit 2 replays and them people check... if the first is fine, then its a green flag... if the first is dirty, just validate the second and change the results... i don´t see why this would be wrong... i see no harm or disrespect... don´t know what you guys think...

I agree... on the fact that nobody will like this idea. I won't tell you a story that the WRS administration takes a lot of time : I knew it was the case when I accepted to take over, and I'm spending the necessary time on it.
But if someone is capable to check if the replay is clean after it has been submitted, then it's also possible to check it before and decide to submit it or not depending on that check. Racers are not total morons (I hope).
Your option sounds like a step towards a total couldn't-give-a-damn attitude, where for instance racers would post several session replays, and ok, someone can always take a look at hours and hours of practice laps, noting down the best clean lap time for each driver and putting up the results.
That will happen if GT5 includes an on-line time submission feature and the game will do that itself, but as long as racers are posting their own time manually on the forum, they are supposed to make sure that what they submit is legal.


Edit :
I wanted yesterday night to post something about trust since it has been mentioned several times in the discussion and I feel that some of us misunderstand that verb.
It's definitely not about blindly agreeing to what someone said, but more about relying on someone to have things done in the expected way.

Example 1 :
Racer A : I tell you my lap is clean, if you trust me then I don't need to post a replay.
Racer B : Ok, I trust you, your lap is clean if you say so.
This has nothing to do with trust : it's a crook trying to screw a naive guy.

Example 2 :
Racer A : Here is the replay.
Racer B : Ok, I checked it and it's clean as I expected. Well done.
That is trust, or at least my definition of trust.

Replay-wise, there are several racers that I trust in the WRS because I know they will post their replay even if not requested, and I know that the replay will be clean and match the submitted time.
And they trust me because they know that I will check their replay even if it wasn't requested and then congratulate them for having posted it.

 

[Casio]

Just curious.

A) Now many people who regularly race own a MaxDrive/Replay Device? (I assume everyone in D1 does, which is over 50% of the total submissions usually at least)
B) And since no-one trusts anyone anymore, what about the idea of compulsory replay checking/posting for everyone?

 

[Tedehur]

That's what I was thinking about yesterday.
On all 32 racers who submitted this week, I know that 23 for sure have a replay device. 1 has bought one recently but it hasn't been delivered yet. I didn't found a replay in my archives for the remaining 8, but I didn't search thoroughly either.

As a consequence, I requested a replay for all times under 1'20.000 this week, and that leaves only 3 drivers that will perhaps not be able because they don't have a replay device.
Since it was unexpected, we'll see how it turns out. If all 23 replays are undoubtly clean, it'll show that there's no need to make replays compulsory.

Good thing is that now we have a thread to discuss this.

 

[Small_Fryz]

As i have always stated, if you want me to post replays im totally fine with it.

I personally think Any time submitted in Div1, 1st or last should always be mandatory to submit a replay, if you fail to do so, your time will get deleted.

Anybody good enough to be in Div1 (hey it takes time and commitment) can fork out (bugger all really) $$ to support there hobby.

I also agree with Hugo^

And im sorry i dont trust every single racer in WRS, i dont know them all. I expect a new player who is fast to post replays to gain my trust. Once they have shown they are the real deal then they have my trust and i trust their runs to be clean. Just like i can race with Mr P, Hugo, Sphinx, MinorShunt and all the BC boys and I dont have to check their replays because i trust they are clean.

so in future.

The more replays you make mandatory the better, that way people may check their replays a little more knowing they Will have to post it. And if people are not happy with that, then they can leave...

I think Div1 should be replay mandatory.

 

[Mr P]

Well I hardly ever race WRS nowadays and maybe my opinion is not accepted by many! but here goes anyway

The checking of every replay will be a very time consuming scenario for the PAL / NTSC reviewers who decide to take it on ... but how about a system like you would get for misconduct in a workplace?

1, First blatant dirty lap or not checked properly gets a warning with a simple smacked wrist in the thread in question and leave that to the race admin to highlight the incident.

2, Second time this person submits a dirty lap or not checked properly they geta public final warning that if it happens again they will be excluded from the WRS through neglect and ignorance!

3, Third strike and you are out!! ... no questions asked 👍

Random replay checking is a must IMO and maybe a random number generator can be appiled that will spit out numbers for inspection?
If 10 drivers in D1 submit and 19 in D2 and 12 in D3 then you have 41 drivers and get a number generator to choose an average of something like 8 numbers per week and those numbers must submit for inspection unless they dont have a replay device! so if number 15 comes out that will be 5th place in D2 and number 37 will be 8th place in D3 etc....

Just an idea anyway, but like a workplace when you have been verbally warned and then it moves onto a written warning .... people start to pay attention to the wrong doings and show some respect to the rules 👍

Good luck with your dilemma

 

[Jake]

Introducing the One Step Program to gaining TRUST in the WRS:

1. Submit clean replays to back up your time every week you race.

 

[fasj6418]

I agree... on the fact that nobody will like this idea. I won't tell you a story that the WRS administration takes a lot of time : I knew it was the case when I accepted to take over, and I'm spending the necessary time on it.
But if someone is capable to check if the replay is clean after it has been submitted, then it's also possible to check it before and decide to submit it or not depending on that check. Racers are not total morons (I hope).
Your option sounds like a step towards a total couldn't-give-a-damn attitude, where for instance racers would post several session replays, and ok, someone can always take a look at hours and hours of practice laps, noting down the best clean lap time for each driver and putting up the results.
That will happen if GT5 includes an on-line time submission feature and the game will do that itself, but as long as racers are posting their own time manually on the forum, they are supposed to make sure that what they submit is legal.

yeah, it does sound weird. i thought of that monday, because most of the times you have your best lap just before deadline. if a suspecious lap is done on wednesday, you have all the time in the world to send to your buddies and let them check. but if you spent hours on a combo and got your best time on monday night (in fact for me it was tuesday 1am) then you just can´t get enough time to send your replay to everybody before you submit. this week i finish analizing myself at 2am, went to bed, then wake up tuesday morning and head to work. spent all day trying to solve my situation. luckly shigspeed was able to check in his lunch time and give me a report before my local time of 5pm. them i submitted.

just as bad as a dirty replay in my opinion, is to waste a very good lap just because you can´t say if its valid or not. i´m not expressing myself the way i want because of language barrier, but if driver A checked his lap and conclude it was ok, let the judges rule otherwise, that´s why we have different users checking the laps.

we had a replay issue over the BC5, with rico, and his team and some other drivers said the lap was clean. judges and many other, found the lap dirty. dion probably remembers this story better, but point is: in a situation like that, i don´t think the driver was trying to cheat or not checking enough. for god´s sake it was the BC! this does not take away from the reputation of the driver in a case like that...

 

[ROB 256R]

Can i also suggest we get rid of the yellow flag option;

the one which denotes that "the replay was doubftul but yet the lap was accepted." I think if a replay cannot be proven to be clean it has to be considered dirty. I personally wouldn't feel right submitting a lap i knew could potentially turn out to be dirty. I question the integrity of anyone who would feel OK about it?

I just don't think allowing a 'doubtful' lap to stand sends the correct message. It's either clean or it's not.

 

[oldphart]

Hey Cyril, a newbie perspective...

Add to the FAQ's about "how to review a video for submittion".

I'm only now beginning to understand the "how". It was my lap at Sarthe that helped me explore the Replay aspect of GT4. When I was sent a photo of my tire, my first thought wasn't ...damn ! DQ'd .... it was, how did he do that .... Remember me asking you how to review my ghost ? That's how lost I was. Never mind discovering how to load a lap here... LOL

I can understand the post of newbies, when they see the times Div 1 post to see just how fast Dan and the rest are, the thoughts lead to .... how ? ... I'm killing myself and I'm that far behind ?

The format, as well as the forum, is one of the best around 👍 the usual jovial post, the light banter, the willingness to share information on set-up's and lines was and is one of the main reasons I joined. As with all things in life, it's what I put into it that count.

At first I didn't post replays because I didn't have the Max. I went out and bought one just for WRS

Then I didn't post because I understood that only Gold had to, and I sure didn't understand how to.

Then I progressed into wanting to post a replay in the hopes that I might learn from others where I'm losing time. I'd love to load up Dans', but I'm not PAL .

Now I'm thinking anyone from Gold to Bronze should post a replay. Not so much for the verification aspect, but that of those wanting to learn how to go faster. Much like Dan posting his settings. It gives me a guage as to where I'm at and where I need to be.

Anyway, that's why I think there should be a post about replays in the FAQ's. It would've helped me quite a bit.

 

[Casio]

Another thing I was thinking about this morning, when I was watching Flat-O's replays, is that the people checking them should give some feedback on the replay. Rather then just say 'clean'.

For example, I noticed that Flat-O lost a lot of time on the last corner of his Siliva lap. So I could say something like, it would be benifical to brake earlier for that corner and accelerate straight through the rumble strip. Or something constructive like that. (No offence to Flat-O intended)

Can i also suggest we get rid of the yellow flag option; the one which denotes that "the replay was doubftul but yet the lap was accepted." I think if a replay cannot be proven to be clean it has to be considered dirty. I personally wouldn't feel right submitting a lap i knew could potentially turn out to be dirty. I question the integrity of anyone who would feel OK about it?

There has been so few yellow-flags I don't think it really is an issue. The last one was in week 43, the yellow-flag is reserved for situation where there might have been contact, but not everyone argees. Unless you are 100% sure that a replay is indeed dirty, you can not give it a red-flag. At the same time, if you are not 100% sure the replay is clean you can not give it a green one.

 

[Tedehur]

if you're not 100% sure that your lap is clean, then consider it dirty​

This sentence perfectly makes sense to me and I don't see anything ambiguous in it.
Is it my limited knowledge of the english language that deceives me ?
Or do some people pay as little attention to the rules as they do to checking their own replays ?

We still have week after week after week clearly dirty or barely checked laps submitted. C'mon ! we're only racing here to have fun and entertainment in a friendly atmosphere. Which means that the only thing that really matters is mutual respect.
And IMO knowingly submitting a dirty lap or not checking a replay before submission is disrespectful towards the whole WRS community, and should therefore be considered a big offence.

I still don't know if I should feel angry or sad or both, but what I know is that I do care about it.
So............{drumroll}...............

Here are some modifications to the rules that will apply immediately :

• the yellow flag doesn't exist anymore. A doubtful replay is a dirty replay and will be rewarded with a red flag.
• any driver who gets a red flag will automatically be requested to provide a replay for his next submission.
• we don't need any rule to decide what will happen for a driver's second red flag, because the first red flag should be humiliating enough not to risk a second one.
  [browsing through mod's armory]Oh, I can do that, really [/browsing]

 

[NielsG]

It is very sad, that it's necessary to make a harsher line in the WRS, but I'm sure, that in the long run we'll all benefit from it. The general trust between the racers will definitely go up, and the majority of us will never get affected by the new and harsher line anyway. 👍


I'm very glad to see, that you're determined to enforce the:

if you're not 100% sure that your lap is clean, then consider it dirty-rule.

I have been checking a lot of replays lately and can see, that most of us already take that rule very seriously. 👍
Forcing everybody to follow it, will make us compete on equal terms AND just as important, it'll make checking replays a lot easier and less time consuming.


I would have liked to see, that submitting a dirty replay would had led to an automatically request for at least 10 clean replays afterward. But if only one DQ is accepted from now on, I guess it'll be OK.
Furthermore I do believe, most of us would feel the need to make a longer successive row of submission of unrequested replays, to restore our credibility after such an unfortunate incident. So it would be clear to anyone anyway, who is to be taken serious and who is not.


I know it's with a bleeding heart you are tightening the rules, Cyril. So I just wanted to show my support to your decisions. 👍


Niels.

 

[Dave_George]

if you're not 100% sure that your lap is clean, then consider it dirty​

This sentence perfectly makes sense to me and I don't see anything ambiguous in it.
Is it my limited knowledge of the english language that deceives me ?
Or do some people pay as little attention to the rules as they do to checking their own replays ?

We still have week after week after week clearly dirty or barely checked laps submitted. C'mon ! we're only racing here to have fun and entertainment in a friendly atmosphere. Which means that the only thing that really matters is mutual respect.
And IMO knowingly submitting a dirty lap or not checking a replay before submission is disrespectful towards the whole WRS community, and should therefore be considered a big offence.

I still don't know if I should feel angry or sad or both, but what I know is that I do care about it.
So............{drumroll}...............

Here are some modifications to the rules that will apply immediately :

• the yellow flag doesn't exist anymore. A doubtful replay is a dirty replay and will be rewarded with a red flag.
• any driver who gets a red flag will automatically be requested to provide a replay for his next submission.
• we don't need any rule to decide what will happen for a driver's second red flag, because the first red flag should be humiliating enough not to risk a second one.
  [browsing through mod's armory]Oh, I can do that, really [/browsing]

Cyril, maybe the rules for track's like Citta di aria could be looked at perhaps? Its a high likelihood that wall touches are going to happen, and it has been seen by using the data logger that when a wall touch occurs, it slows the car down.

Surely this disadvantages the driver?

Maybe slight touches on tracks like the one mentioned could be left to a stewards decision perhaps?

David

 

[MisterWeary]

Cyril, maybe the rules for track's like Citta di aria could be looked at perhaps? Its a high likelihood that wall touches are going to happen, and it has been seen by using the data logger that when a wall touch occurs, it slows the car down.

Surely this disadvantages the driver?

Maybe slight touches on tracks like the one mentioned could be left to a stewards decision perhaps?

David

I don't like the sound of that at all, you're adding some grey to a clearly Black and White situation. Disadvantage or not, a dirty lap is a dirty lap

 

[Small_Fryz]

Ditto ^^

Dirty is dirty, if you are unable to drive a complete lap with no hits, then dont submit.

 

[Dave_George]

I don't like the sound of that at all, you're adding some grey to a clearly Black and White situation. Disadvantage or not, a dirty lap is a dirty lap

Guys it was just a thought....

 

[Super T]

As a (very late,) newcomer to this series I have been reading this thread with great interest. I submitted a time for the VW lupo/Citta de Aria race unofficially (thanks for putting my time up anyway Flat out 👍 )as I hadn't PM'd my qualifier.

Anyway, to the point, I hadn't even heard of a Max drive until last weekend but I can assure you I will be getting one as soon as possible, I'm here for a bit of fun with a game I enjoy and sharing the experience with a few (if you can call several hundred a few) like-minded people.

I'm never gonna be div 1 material but if it's gonna help everyone sleep easier I'll be keeping all my replays till I get my mitts on a Max drive.

Remember people we're all here for a laugh, even if most of us will be laughing at our own times.

Edit after week 54 results: It getting hot in here. As a "newb" and someone who's still racing without a replay device I've been trying to race ULTRA clean to the point where I'm not even touching the rumble strips?!? This, I think, has been showing up in my times (last on both official weeks so far). I'm not trying to cheat anyone (least of all myself), when my replay device shows up hopefully my times will improve and I can proove that. I don't want anybody else looking at my time and thinking he can't proove that time so I'll disregard it, or submit a "dirty" replay one week (even if it is accidentally) and then have all my other times in doubt because of that one lapse.