Reverse Lights!

[Stonemonkey]

This is not a thread requesting that PD put reverse lights into GT. I have already posted some of this in another thread but it's just being lost and I'm still seeing posts about reverse lights.

I have been searching around for racing regulations to do with lights on cars and it would appear that for competitive circuit racing reverse lights are not required and that at least some of the FIA regulations actually require that the bulbs are removed from reverse lights.

I assume that there is some reason for this and that it probably applies to other race series and that for realism this is also the case in the GT games.

Can anyone involved in real life racing verify this or show that I'm wrong?

 

[Scoop2004]

remember though, this game is a "driving simulator" and last time i checked standard ford focus road cars had working reverse lights! I consider most of the races in the GT mode to be just amatuer trackday stuff which people do in their own cars,which have working reverse lights.

Come to think of it, dont road cars taken on race tracks have to have tape over the lense of the lights so if they get smashed they stay in one piece?

I'd like to know Kaz''s reason for not making reverse lights work? Is he following these racing rules you speak of? Or does he just believe a good driver would never need reverse? If that's the case then why has he developed a third person view? Because GOOD drivers would never use the third person cam!

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm not expert but it makes sense that reverse light wouldn't be needed. If a car goes off the track and is in a position where it'd need lights to indicate to other cars it was going backwards there'd generally be a whole bunch of flags being waved and radio chatter to that effect.

Tactically speaking there are things like lightbulbs and wiring and stuff that make reverse lights work. It aint much but these equate to weight that a racing car could do without having. Weight reduction in racing is taken very seriously and it wouldn't surprise me if they stripped this off production cars just to eke out another couple of grams of advantage.

 

[Devedander]

For race cars in certain races I can see this being legit, however for production cars in what can best be described as simulating an amature race it doesn't really cary over and I think in WRC reverse lights are used. NASCAR obviously not.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Road legal cars must have road legal lights, WRC cars must be road legal, too.

 

[Stonemonkey]

I doubt it's anything to do with weight reduction as the FIA just require that the bulbs are removed but I think it's possible that it's something to do with safety on the circuit.

A car does not need to be road legal to drive on a circuit. WRC cars have to be road legal as they drive on public roads at times so we may see reverse lights on cars in WRC events.

If you're going to argue that because your road car has reverse lights the cars racing on the track in the game should have them too then shouldn't you be arguing that you want to see your airbag blow up in your face when you have a bump?

 

[Terronium-12]

Don't race cars have to be homologated before being administered into any racing series event?

As for the airbags, how does that even make sense? A road legal NSX has working reverse lights, a road legal Ferrari Enzo has working reverse lights; sure, the ethics are all subjective to one person's opinion but to that extent why model working aerodynamics? (That's the basis of the point I'm trying to make, don't read into it and come out of your face saying something to the effect of "That aids in aerodynamic properties" or any such variation thereof.)

It's like GT is the opposite at what Forza models, and Forza is the opposite at what GT models - at the end of the day these things fail to make any sense whatsoever. Kaz fancies himself a perfectionist, wouldn't a perfectionist capture every detail to administer the best possible experience?

 

[Stonemonkey]

As for the airbags, how does that even make sense?

If you took a car onto a race circuit to compete in a race you'd disable or remove the airbags much in the same way I'm suggesting you'd disable the reverse lights but others argue that since their real life car has reverse lights that they should be present on the racetrack too so I'm asking that since their real life car has airbags then shouldn't they be in the game too.

 

[Terronium-12]

But an airbag is a safety measure, reverse lights aren't.

I do see your point and it makes sense, but I revert to what's said above. I believe even DiRT modelled working reverse lights (I don't remember, I haven't played in quite a long time, so please, correct me if I'm wrong.)

On a separate note I honestly get the point of people making an issue about most of these considered "trivial" aspects that aren't in Gran Turismo. Primarily because everyone seems to consider it the best console racing sim that offers just about everything. So, why not have visible tire scrubbing, reverse lights, glowing brake disks...engine failure, etc, etc. I mean you are simulating car culture and their viable performance aspects, are you not?

So, why the need to seemingly avoid what you may or may not consider to be absolutely "viable"?

 

[ASH32]

Yes they are, do you think they were put on cars because they look pretty?

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Airbags on road car will be cool!!! Wen you crash a car airbags should open and protect driver...
Sorry for my english

 

[patriotzero]

airbags?! first trees second reverse lights now airbags pfff

 

[Ozybolairy]

That's a point, do we have a '3D trees!' thread?

 

[d3br34k5]

Everyone says that we don't need working reverse lights, and that's true, but they should be included. Trying to argue that race-cars don't require them is just silly, in my opinion.

It's one of those PD mysteries we'll just have to deal with.

 

[Dravonic]

Let's think for a moment, shall we? Reverse lights are completely useless in circuit racing, to the point that they are not even allowed. While most cars in GT are stock and they do have reverse lights, are you driving them around roads? Or are you driving them around circuits?

I do think if a car has reverse lights it should also have in the game but it boggles my mind why can anyone actually care so much about it. They are freaking useless in circuit races! Why oh why can anyone care about a completely useless thing?

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

It's a matter of priorities IMO, there's other things I find much more important. The fact that there is or isn't reverse lights, skidmarks, driver and passenger airbag, working ashtrays and glove boxes and whatever else is so insignificant to me that I don't really care if they're in the game or not.

What I do find weird is how they seem such a big deal to some people. The fact that they'd be somehow disappointed in the whole game if something so utterly meaningless wasn't included is completely beyond me.

 

[Lucas]

They are freaking useless in circuit races! Why oh why can anyone care about a completely useless thing?

The same reason people would complain if the spoiler on the SLR McLaren wouldn't rise as they went faster.

 

[Stonemonkey]

Can anyone tell me why the FIA requires that the bulbs in reverse lights should be removed? If it's anything to do with safety in circuit racing then that would be a reason to not have them in the game in my opinion and would explain why something that would be no problem at all to include isn't in previous games.

 

[Terronium-12]

Alright. So, answer me this...

Why would Polyphony model an R34 into a completely useless pace/safety car that has a fully functional lightbar when flag rules aren't a part of the game, and the race isn't halted or abruptly ended due to a track side accident? I could ask the very same thing to people that want more modification varieties, a livery editor, weather, a drag strip (which in and of itself is totally independent and focus-based). I could go on.

If you're going to sit there and tell yourself as well as others that you'll never find yourself in the grass or dirt having to go in reverse, then, you're just sadly mistaken. I'm almost inclined to believe that had Gran Turismo focused on all of these features before other games had, some of you would be jumping down their throats for the very same reason...

The same reason people would complain if the spoiler on the SLR McLaren wouldn't rise as they went faster.

Alright. Despite my case about reverse light, you're actually implying the comparison of aerodynamics to a functioning light?

 

[Northstar]

Why oh why can anyone care about a completely useless thing?

If you want to go down that road, 99% of things in GT games are "useless".

 

[Lucas]

Alright. Despite my case about reverse light, you're actually implying the comparison of aerodynamics to a functioning light?

Honestly, animation or not, the aerodynamics are there. But people would go crazy if the animation wasn't present. Just look at how many people bash Forza 3's lack of that animation. I'm not saying I support the lack of it. What I'm just saying is that I don't see what's the point of bashing it, if you (GT players, including myself) don't even have reverse lights. Some people like the animation. Some people like the animation and reverse lights, like me.

And by the way, Stonemonkey, it doesn't work like "100% cars have reverse lights, or 100% don't". I doubt PD was trying to go for that approach when they excluded them. And if they did, they sucked at it. Not every car lacks reverse lights, as not every car has them.

 

[Dravonic]

The same reason people would complain if the spoiler on the SLR McLaren wouldn't rise as they went faster.

You can understand however how the spoiler going up has a lot more to do with racing than reverse lights, I hope.

 

[Terronium-12]

Honestly, animation or not, the aerodynamics are there. But people would go crazy if the animation wasn't present. Just look at how many people bash Forza 3's lack of that animation. I'm not saying I support the lack of it. What I'm just saying is that I don't see what's the point of bashing it, if you (GT players, including myself) don't even have reverse lights. Some people like the animation. Some people like the animation and reverse lights, like me.

And that's the problem right there. Speed-triggered spoilers aren't there just to make the car look faster, so to negate an important design ethic is just the same as saying "I don't care much" I'm not implying the same for reverse lights, but it is to be expected that the car in it's entirety would be modeled (please, don't suggest airbags again, that's just silly) and not just what the person saw fit.

 

[Lucas]

You can understand however how the spoiler going up has a lot more to do with racing than reverse lights, I hope.

Woah, there. I never said reverse lights had anything to do with racing. But they are related to a driving simulation, so they should function "properly" (turned on/off, meh).

EDIT: I just understood what you mean, Terronium. Thanks for explaining. 👍

 

[Seismica]

Do we need them? No.

Do we want them? Yes. Aside from delayed release date, there is no reason why we shouldn't want them.

But to tell you the truth I have never noticed the lack of reverse lights in prologue, for two reasons:

- I use cockpit view the majority of the time
- When i do use reverse in 3rd person view or on replays, the brake lights come on, and i know they're different to reverse lights, but in this instance they serve the same function.

The fact cars 'ghost' when reversing in online races also means reverse lights serve no purpose as a warning to other drivers.

It's curious that people make such a fuss, it seems like a feature that is favourable but not required by anyone.

 

[Dravonic]

Woah, there. I never said reverse lights had anything to do with racing. But they are related to a driving simulation, so they should function "properly" (turned on/off, meh).

What I mean is, it's a lot more useful than reverse lights, is it not? And since GT is all about circuit racing, having them is relevant. Unlike reverse lights.

 

[arora]

That's it, final straw, if PD does not include reverse lights I won't be buying the game.

 

[Dravonic]

That's it, final straw, if PD does not include reverse lights I won't be buying the game.

Goodbye.

 

[d3br34k5]

It's curious that people make such a fuss, it seems like a feature that is favourable but not required by anyone.

Agreed, 100%.

 

[Lucas]

And since GT is all about circuit racing simulation, having both is relevant.

There. Before being a racing game, GT is a simulation.

Do we need them? No.

Do we want them? Yes. Aside from delayed release date, there is no reason why we shouldn't want them.

As a simulator, it is one of the game's priorities to have them. But as a player, no, I honestly don't need them. I would love to have them, though!