RotOr V.S. PiSton

im not too sure. as for over all power and strength i would say piston. but rotary are hard to fix. but hey call me old fashioned at 18, but i say it should always be V8. no higher, no lower.
 
Actually, Rotary engines are not hard to fix, it is more of a matter that less people know how to keep them maintained more then anything. I basically had to work on my old 13b every weekend to keep it in tip top sharp. There are less people specialized in the maintenance in rotaries. If you ever had an old school American car you would understand the importance of maintenance. My old roommate had a 1980 Camaro Z28 all stock parts on it. He workwed on that car just as much.

The Camaro had enough room in it to step in the engine bay even with the 350 motor in it. I was basically able to get around my miata the same way with the 13b in my engine bay. It is all about what you research and know :D
 
Originally posted by lethalAE86typeR
i think pistons are better. they are easier to fix. rotors are to hard to fix. which produces more horses?

Hmm, another discreet rotor bashing thread..

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and bet money you've never seen the inside of a Rotary in person, let alone worked on one.

I'll give you an analogy. If I build a Lego castle that has 10 pieces, and you build one that has 60 pieces, what one can be built quicker after it falls?

Originally posted by SS69
hey call me old fashioned at 18, but i say it should always be V8. no higher, no lower.

Your old fashioned.

081203-pistonmistake.jpg
 
Just to let you guys know the rotary engines have less parts then cylinder engines, they weigh less, and they can produce more tons of power. The only draw back is it is not very fuel economical. But for racers who cares.

Less weight equals more speed and also 50/50 weight balance.

Less moving parts equals doesn't break down as much.

More fuel to the engine equals more power.

SO...the question you are probably asking is why doesn't more companies make rotaries...duh Mazda probably has a copy right law or know one can figure out how to make one (which I highly doubt).

Any way I am not bagging on cyclinders or anything I mean my top 3 favorite cars are...

1. Nissan Skyline R-34 (cyclinder)

2. Toyota Supra (cyclinder)

3. Mazda RX-7 (rotary)

Oh and to close it up...why most people have to fix there engine for the rotary is because of the hard rubber surrounding it wears out, but I think they have fixed that problem.
 
Mazda probably has a copy right law or know one can figure out how to make one [/B]
um yeah, no and no. Actually Rotaries will have the tendency to breakdown more often then a Pushrod anyday of the week if not properly maintained! I have seen many horror stories in rotaries in my time that have not had any TLC done to them.
 
Mazda does indeed own the exclusive rights to produce rotary powered cars. Other companies including major US companies attempted to build rotary cars back in the 60's and 70's, and failed either due to a number of things, such as:
The cost of retooling assembly lines.
The lack of servicing and costomer knowlage(A lot of people who buy American cars just don't know cars and don't care).
The mileage issue.
The fact that while once built it's a pretty easy engine to work on if you know what you're doing, to design and produce the engine and the car for it can be difficult.

The milage issue combined with the Oil Crisis nearly sent Mazda out of buisness, and would have, if Mazda didn't make piston cars(or piston versions of thier rotary cars).

The thing is, the piston engine has been around since, well, a hell of a long time, something like back to the 1860's(talking about the internal combustion engine, not like the big pistons that are on steam engines and the like), so it's had a ton of time to develope and get better. Also since all car companies up till Mazda used it, people knew the engine well, and it had the backing of many of the companies that made it to develope further.
The rotary is still developing in leaps and bounds for every new rotary produced. Unfortunately, since Mazda is the only company using it, they are the only company developing it, so the whole developement and improoving technology of the engine takes longer. The RX-8's Renesis is a huge step forward for the rotary, moving the ports from the rotor housing to the side housings, virtually cutting out cycle overlap(Before the Renesis, the ports were on the rotor housings, and worked when the apex seals(the 3 tips of the rotor) went over them. Since the rotor tips are very skinny(the surface area that stays on the housing), the tip would get to the port, and for a split second the port's cycle would go on both sides of the tip, overlapping cycles and causing the mileage issue and several running issues), and I believe that the Renesis can last as long as any piston engine(if properly maintained).

SS69 - Your thought processes are that of an 8 year old. No rightfully minded 18 year old car person says such a comment as you did about V8s being the epitome of a great engine. Lemme guess, your first car is/was a inline 4? Thought so. As a 17 year old driver of an 82hp 16 year old 323, I have the right to say that you are completely wrong. But hey, if you prefer bad gas mileage, increased car insurence, and a heavy tanker of an engine(and a tank of a car it's in), then I guess that a V8 is what you really need...
 
and let me guess max kid, ur a cokcy ,what 17 or 18 year old, grow up dude, jsut because ppl are ignorant about cars doesnt make them stupid and doesnt give u the right to say they sound liek an 8 year old or the fact that u know everything because u drive a 82hp car
 
Uh... Kyle... Can you not act like a fool and just ***** at anyone that you don't like?

So what if people are ignorant about cars. Mazkid is a 'freak' of Mazdas and cars alike. Big deal. He has alot of interest in it. I've also just about had enough of you. Please don't go around yelling at people.
 
Rotary engines can be reliable. Why you usually hear horror stories about them is because someone either turned up the boost or just drove their car to its demise. If properly maintained, they can last as long as most piston motors. Some piston motors dont have to be taken care of to last a long time. They are lucky and have had alot more time to evolve into what they are now.
Rotary's also have alot less moving parts and someone made very good point about his lego house consisting of more or less pieces. The reason people speculate about them so much is becuase they dont know how they work. Mazda lots its behind of the last gen RX-7 in America because its dealers werent able to handle the amount of warranty issues they had with the vehicles motors, their technicians had not all been properly trained to perform the service work. When the customer got their car back after one of those tech's worked on it they would be angry when once again their vehicle failed them.
Some one said more fuel into the motor = more power. Sorry your wrong. More fuel AND more air into the motor= more power. I dont think that the rotary motors made an incredible amount of power for their size when not turbocharged....... I believe that they were on par with the similar sized piston driven motors but used more fuel. I may be totally wrong on that one but thats how it is IMO.
 
I think a major limitation of most piston engines that rotaries have no problem with are valves. Valves limit the power your enine can produce becuase they actually limit the rpm's that a piston engine can opperate at. I am not going to go into details but i think that a piston engine with rotary valves... which have nothing to do with rotary engines... they are just rotating ports, are extrememly interesting. I personally think that my favorite all time engine configurations would have to be the inline 6 then the flat 6 and then the rotary and flat 4. Rotaries have their problems, and i believe that we dont have the best material to make for a better apex seal. Rotary valves basically allow for huge exhaust and intake ports for pistons which allow for more air and fuel to move faster at higher rpms that conventional valves on preloaded springs can operate at. anyways i have no point at all...
 
There are no valves at all in a rotary engine. And the valve float which you refer to can be handled quite easily....... look at the piston driven F1 cars that redline ridiculously high.
 
I know there are no valves in a rotary engine... hence rotaries have no problem with them. If it can be handles "quite easily" then why dont we have more f1 engines in road cars... hmmm...

anyways look into what i am talking about... rotary valves and then maybe you will see what i was trying to introduce...
 
I'm not saying that all cars need to redline at 20k plus...... im saying that valve limitations are not that big of a deal...... lots of stock cars redline at 8-9k rpm fromt he factory.

Post a link to somewhere i can read about these "rotary valves" on piston motors
 
Originally posted by bengee
I know there are no valves in a rotary engine... hence rotaries have no problem with them. If it can be handles "quite easily" then why dont we have more f1 engines in road cars... hmmm...


Ever looked at the price of an F1 engine? It's quite easy, but it's astronomically costly.
 
it may be easy from a design perspective, but i dont think astronomically costly would qualify as something anybody can do...

anyways i will look about for the link i found where this guy made and patented his system on a ford v8 i believe... I came across the idea in my mechie club trying to improve the performance of a single cyl engine while bringing down its power considerably (need it to idle and start ummm consistently)... He came up with a much more sophitcated method than i would have... but then again he patented his own sealant materials...

Here is a link...http://www.coatesengine.com/index1.html
rotary vavles will be in no way a cheap solution, but i just think they are interesting. :D take less parts and have many advantages...

Sorry about the site but its the best i could find.
 
I heard of someone reassembling an entire rotary engine from it's disassembled component parts in 20 minutes. Now take your car down to the local garage and ask them how long it would take (and how much it would cost) to assemble even the world's most basic piston engine from it's component atoms...

My Mazda has the world's smallest ever production V6 and it sounds just nice thank you. And my next car will also have 6 cylinders. My brother's only has 4 though. Mind you, they are arranged in a boxer formation, with a turbo attached and a world rally car underneath...
 
Rotaries are cool. Pistons are cool. 8 pistons makes cool noises. 12 makes even more cool noises. This thread is dumb. Both have their place in our world, its just that those who don't understand, tend to not like them. Im not the biggest fan of rotaries, but that doesn't, in any way, make them inferior.
 
Old carbed 8 cyclinders are cool Shob, the new fuel injected ones sound like arse :lol: I would take an old school pushrod any day of the week. I find them the simplest engines to work on even though they have more parts then a rotary. I still stand by my old rotary though :D
 
Im sorry miataman, but the sound of an unrestricted 32 valve Mach 1 is quite gorgeous. Im not a fan of the supercharger whine of the cobra.
 
Originally posted by ShobThaBob
Im sorry miataman, but the sound of an unrestricted 32 valve Mach 1 is quite gorgeous. Im not a fan of the supercharger whine of the cobra.
an old school carbureted engine like a 502 unrestricted would turn you deaf :D that is a gorgeous sound. . . I still am trying to figure out where the supercharged whine of a Cobra came from though :confused: Now are you talking about an old school Mach 1 or a new Mach 1???
 
Im kinda confused to because he said 32 valve...... Only the DOHC motors came with that many. Dont both the new and old Mach 1 have just 16 vavles?
 
Originally posted by Tofu4G63
Im kinda confused to because he said 32 valve...... Only the DOHC motors came with that many. Dont both the new and old Mach 1 have just 16 vavles?
you are think OHV I believe with the 16 valves. The new Mach 1s I believe have the 32 valve. . . but why with the fuel injection? I'll research this issue :D

Yup here are the specs
4.6-Liter, 32-Valve, 90-Degree V8, DOHC, Modular, SEFI Engine, Front/Longitudinal Mounted With Horsepower Of 305@5800 and Torque Of 320@4200, Forged Crank, Cast Iron Block and Cast Aluminum Cylinder Heads

If you want a really new Fuel injected engine that is bad, take that whimpy Mustang out of the picture and use this :D
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Products/179/
 
Nope. Im talking about the newer Mach 1. And yes, the newer one has a 4.6 v8 DOHC. 305 hp. Same engine thats in the cobra....but the cobra one is supercharged.
 
right, lets think about what produces more hp...
A piston 1.3 can get about 80hp
The RX8's rotary 1.3 gets 200+.


I think this is fairly conclusive.
 
Actually, I've seen Mini Se7en series competitors (1.3 Rover K-series, remember) pushing 120hp. Go to the land of bikes and you're back to 200hp or more.
 
If I remember correctly (which i might not be) the Hayabusa (bike) engine is 1300cc and there are people who have well over 200hp being pushed from those.
 
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