Roundabouts - Yay or nay?

[Sureboss]

Saw an article on our Auntie Beeb about the use of roundabouts in the States and it got me thinking about a debate for here, I couldn't see anything so here we go.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13863498

A roundabout revolution is slowly sweeping the US. The land of the car, where the stop sign and traffic light have ruled for decades, has started to embrace the free-flowing British circular.

A few moments after entering Carmel, it's clear why the city has been described as the Milton Keynes of the US.

As the sat-nav loudly and regularly points out, there's often a roundabout up ahead.

But unlike in the English town famous for them, driving into this pretty city on the outskirts of Indianapolis also involves passing several more under construction.

The city is at the forefront of a dizzying expansion, across several American states, of the circular traffic intersection redesigned in 1960s Britain and then exported globally. They first arrived in the US in 1990 and about 3,000 have sprung up since.

The Mayor of Carmel, Jim Brainard, has become America's evangelist-in-chief on the matter, demolishing 78 sets of traffic lights and replacing them with those round islands so familiar to drivers in the UK. Four more will be finished in the coming months.

Blog which is very much anti-roundabouts.

http://www.thecitizen.com/blogs/rick-ryckeley/06-23-2011/beware-roundabouts

Rotaries are where four streets intersect and merge into a circle. Motorists drive round and round, just guessing which one has the right of way and trying to figure out how to exit. Some believe this to be the origin of the word roundabout.

Until now, this type of motoring nightmare has been limited to European countries, British television, and inebriated college students after any home football victory. Mostly this novelty has been laughed at by Americans, but not anymore. There’s one being constructed in our fair county, and downtown is ground zero.

There’s an old saying, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Growing up at 110 Flamingo Street we had another saying, “If it’s broke, I didn’t do it.” When it comes to driving we have a rather simple system in the United States: red means stop, green means go, and yellow means ... well, that depends if there’s someone watching or not.

All in all the system works. Buy a bunch of stop signs and traffic lights and before you know it you have a thriving city — all funded by people who don’t stop at those traffic lights and stop signs. There’s balance in the universe. Not so when roundabouts come to town.

When four cars from four different directions approach an intersection outfitted with stop signs, the guy on the right goes first, then the person on his right, and so on. Everyone takes a turn. As systems goes this one is just about perfect for all — unless of course you don’t know your right from your left. In that case, you should just stay home and spend your time deciding which shoe goes on which foot. Hint: the one with the laces goes on the right foot.

Our traffic system works. Not so with a roundabout. There’s no right, or left, or even making a turn for that matter. To enter a roundabout one just takes a gap and gives a gap – simple by design. Yeah, right. Just ask how that gap thing has worked for those poor folks trying to access the highway in downtown Atlanta during rush hour.

The universe is out of whack when roundabouts are constructed and the economy suffers. Not one, but two industries are suddenly out of business. There’s no longer any need for stop signs or traffic lights. I ask you, in this economic climate, is this a time to put all those people out of work? But that’s just the beginning of the economic impact.

Roundabouts will have a devastating effect on the revenues of our county and city coffers. First, someone has to pay for the construction of roundabouts. That would be us. Importing those British engineers and constructions workers I’m sure wasn’t cheap. How they got in through Georgia’s new immigration law is amazing.

Second, with fewer stop signs and traffic lights it will mean fewer tickets ... fewer tickets less revenue ... less revenue higher taxes. Someone has to make up the shortfall. That also would also be us. Independence Day is right around the corner, and those Brits are causing us to pay higher taxes once again.

So for now, I’ll stand on my soapbox in the center of our downtown and shout NO! No to roundabouts! Rise up, fellow countians – it’s Independence Day once again. The Roundabouts are coming and with them will come higher taxes, job losses, and huge increases in law enforcement overtime.

Who else do you think is going to help all those residents stuck in the roundabout find their way out? On second thought, overtime pay for our overworked and underpaid police officers ... maybe roundabouts might not be such a bad idea after all.

I’ve even heard our neighboring city has a double roundabout. Instead of going round and round, they get stuck doing figure eights in a parking lot — just like those inebriated college students after home football victories.

Great, a town full of drunken college students. Yep, this roundabout thing is going to work out just fine.

Where do you stand on Roundabouts? What's it like in your country/state?

I'm very much pro-roundabout, in fact, I think there should be more of them, they are just so much more efficient than traffic lights not to mention safer. The timing of the lights on some of the cross-sections around here is just ridiculous and makes the traffic build up horrific.

I can sort of see the economic point that guy is making, maybe now isn't the right time to replace something with something else, lit intersections are not necessarily broken, but the evidence for roundabouts as a better alternative is pretty strong. Have to disagree with the "too stupid to use" argument, it's not difficult, give way to anything that is going to hit you if you move on to the roundabout, car positioning and indication should be obvious. People that can't cope with them shouldn't really be on the road, should they?

 

[Famine]

Motorists drive round and round, just guessing which one has the right of way and trying to figure out how to exit.

Only if they're utter spam javelins.

The car on the roundabout has right of way over the car not on it. In countries where you drive on the left, traffic to the right always has priority. In countries where you drive on the right, traffic to the left always has priority.

To exit, point your brum-brum at the bit of road that you want to use.


If this guy has difficulties with the concept of driving to places and not into the path of other cars, he shouldn't be allowed out unsupervised, much less given control of a vehicle.

 

[Tesla]

I like how the anti-roundabout blogger states that they would have to hire british engineers to design the roundabouts for them. Because it's so difficult to make a circle of concrete between roads

 

[Luminis]

Seriously, if someone can't figure a roundabout out, how did he even manage to figure out how to start his car? Or at which colour of a trafic light he needs to stop and which he can get going again?
As you can probably tell, I think roundabouts are a good idea. From my experience, busy intersections with roundabouts are far faster to cross than ones with trafic lights.

 

[David]

I can't tell if that blogger was just trying to be funny, or if he really thinks he's clever and has good arguments, but the guy sounds like an ass.

I don't want my local government to spend all of our money removing regular intersections just because, but if new roads are going in, and a roundabout is a better choice for the given area then I have no problem with it. We've had roundabouts in Maryland for a while now anyway and for most people they aren't a problem. Pretty annoying getting stuck behind people from out of state who seem to have such a hard time figuring them out though haha.

 

[Ibonibo]

- Stupid People : They exist, even if they shouldn't drive in our opinion, there are a Lot of them on the roads. The most dangerous behaviours I've seen in R.a are people going the wrong way, simply because it's shorter (rare), or people using the turning signal and then don't take the exit. I always watch out for the aligment of the wheels and cars.

- Economical stance : Well even if it costs the state, it generates incomes for the private companies buiding them and their employees.

- The flow of circulation: R.a needs not to be everywhere, because that can also create more harm than good. But on the right places they improve the flow of the circulation.

- Here in certain European countries you will see (barely) flat R.a, which are a pain and very dangerous especially for non locals. Those are built on low budget and are stupid. A R.a should be a little elevated, with concete walls on the outside. And don't plant trees on it in the aligment of the street, as non locals will have difficulties to see it as a R.a at night. And R.a should be a steep hill aws in case of an accident, the outcome can be disastrous.

As a side not, it's the French who invented the R.a not the British : father of R.a is Eugène Hénard.
R.a = roundabout

(dchPSUone: saw your avatar movie 2 days ago. Brilliant. Loved the accent of William Dafoe)

 

[Famine]

- Stupid People : They exist, even if they shouldn't drive in our opinion, there are a Lot of them on the roads. The most dangerous behaviours I've seen in R.a are people going the wrong way, simply because it's shorter (rare), or people using the turning signal and then don't take the exit. I always watch out for the aligment of the wheels and cars.

Roundabouts don't cause stupid people to behave stupidly. Stupid people behave stupidly everywhere.

 

[Thatman]

I think roundabouts are a grand idea but likely wouldn't be good for the masses at a very large intersection.

However it does make Ped crossing a little more difficult.

 

[Jet Badger]

If there will be roundabouts, gay mexican terrorists will win. I ain't understand those 'n I tell ye, I ain't gonna change ma way of drivin' ma damn pickup with 15 rifles on the damn roof.

 

[David]

Yeah... okay.

 

[cuco33]

YAY like I can't explain enough at how much I'd love it if it came true

There are very few roundabouts in my area and people use them wrong. The car in the circle has the right of way, NOT the person entering it... Take a note from Europe... they have roundabouts EVERYWHERE and not a single person enters the circle thinking they have the right of way.

 

[Tornado]

There are very few roundabouts in my area and people use them wrong. The car in the circle has the right of way, NOT the person entering it... Take a note from Europe... they have roundabouts EVERYWHERE and not a single person enters the circle thinking they have the right of way.

People in Europe have also had them for nearly 50 years.

 

[boiltheocean]

People in Europe have also had them for nearly 50 years.

Your point being? It doesn't take 50 years of experience to work out how a roundabout is used correctly, you can teach it in a few sentences.

 

[cuco33]

People in Europe have also had them for nearly 50 years.

Some of these roundabouts have been around for some time, like at least 15 years from what I remember and they still do it wrong.

People in Europe generally know how to drive properly. Like the left lane is meant to be the passing lane, not the beige colored Toyota Prius/10mpg SUV lane to go 20mph under the speed limit. Our true fast lane is the right lane, which so happens to be the most dangerous lane as people are getting on or hoping off the roads. I frequently visit Portugal and Spain, have been to France a few times and lived in Italy for 9 months. Americans in general don't know how to drive. After my 9 month stay in Italy my biggest problem to get used to when I got back to the states was driving on the roads. Every day I count at least 5 idiot drivers doing something bad/wrong/dangerous. Overseas I barely could count 1 a day.

Some countries even require you to know how to change a flat tire out and check your fluids as part of your driving test to get your license. Not this 'I'm calling AAA'. I'm from Jersey and when my younger sister got her license she called me from NY not knowing how to pump her own gas

too funny!

 

[Omnis]

The only thing better than a roundabout is an open plaza of an intersection. Sure, there might be accidents, but these virtually eliminate fatal ones.

 

[Scaff]

Oh yes, get to post about this again.

I'm a big fan of them, they work, even this one:

In my home town and it works wonderfully, drive across this twice a day at least and the traffic always flows, accidents are rare and those that do occur are minor.


Scaff

 

[Dan_]

God, can't believe people doesn't seem to know how to drive around a stupid circle without crashing. It's pathetic.

Roundabouts are much better for low traffic-volume areas than lights, which are normally deactivated through the night and hence, prone to have more accidents as idiots approach them at 80mph.

EDIT: What's up with that, why not to do a damn bridge then?

 

[Tornado]

Your point being?

It shouldn't be that hard to understand.


50 years to get used to the idea versus having it dropped on your lap and being expected to completely understand it. Which is exactly what a lot of the cities implementing them are doing.

It doesn't take 50 years of experience to work out how a roundabout is used correctly, you can teach it in a few sentences.

It doesn't take 8 years of experience to learn how to operate a car. You can teach the required information in a few sentences.

And yet, a 24 year old is inarguably less likely to crash into everything on the road than an 18 year old.

Some of these roundabouts have been around for some time, like at least 15 years from what I remember and they still do it wrong.

In a few cities, in a few locations. In a country still dominated almost completely by a wholly different traffic control system.



I'm not saying traffic circles are rocket science to understand or that a lot of the problems aren't cause by stupidity, but come on, people.

 

[Keef]

I have never met an intersection in the US that I actually liked. I think roundabouts are a fantastic idea - not because you never stop because you do occasionally, but because when there is no need to stop you can continue on your way. It saves gas, it saves time, it promotes awareness, and is far less frustrating than the basic four-way intersections every 1/8 mile around here.

The only bad thing about roundabouts that I can think of is that they take up a lot of real estate.

For the record, I can only think of one roundabout in my area, and that's in a small town out in the country. I've driven myself through it once. And in all honestly, it was a strange experience. Because it's such a rare happening over here, pretty much the entire population would have quite a serious learning curve. Despite that, I strongly believe that an effort should be made to replace every major intersection with a roundabout here in the States.

 

[homeforsummer]

Roundabouts are really, really simple:

1. Give way to the traffic already on the roundabout. Example: You pull up to the roundabout. Is there something coming towards you? Give way to it and pull out when it's clear. Is there nothing coming towards you on the roundabout? Go for it.

2. Are you on the roundabout? Then you have priority. Ideally use your turn signals to make it clear to those wanting to enter the roundabout if it's safe for them to go or not.

3. If you're turning left at the roundabout, signal left. Right, signal right. Straight on? Don't signal onto the roundabout, do signal off as you pull past the last junction before yours.

There we go, basically Roundabouts 101 summed up in three really short points. For an even shorter version, read the first sentence of the first point.

And one last thing, they're FUN. Think of them as constant radius corners (or chicanes, for smaller ones) with perfect visibility. A roundabout is something to be savoured.

Only if they're utter spam javelins.

I'm going to start using this term more often.

 

[Sureboss]

There's some round here that have brick paving sloping up towards a raised central concrete block, you're not supposed to use the brick paving (certainly not at highest point, which is say 2 feet above bottom of the slope) but it is great fun

The only bad thing about roundabouts that I can think of is that they take up a lot of real estate.

Roundabout in my nearest city:

It has 7 exits (only 4 marked on the signs as you approach it). The lack of space is where Mini roundabouts are worth their weight in Gold (Yes, Famine, I know that's nothing!) Brighton (the city of above roundabout) has some very narrow streets and and some junctions on quite severe slopes, doesn't stop the mini roundabout though!

 

[mustangGT90210]

I'm against the round abouts personally. I don't have a problem with intersections and stop signs. People in this country can F up on straight roads and wreck, do we really need to throw a lot of circles at them? Kids are going to take them too fast and go crashing off.


But then I'm also for them too, aesthetically speaking. They are much easier on the eyes than a 4 way stop, you can plant a nice tree in the middle and mulch around it.


I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't put round abouts on stupidly busy roads. But in neighborhoods and less congested areas they look much nicer

 

[eSZee]

In countries where you drive on the right, traffic to the left always has priority.

Which is opposite of what the rule is in normal intersections.

I have no problem with roundabouts having grown up in Europe. I do have a problem with them int he USA cause most people can't use them. At my old house, they put a roundabout in a low traffic local road that saw maybe 30-50 cars on a daily basis. There were 17 accidents in the 1st week.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Yay.

It's annoying when there are unexperienced drivers who treat them like 4way stops, but as long as there are multiple lanes and you can get around them it's fine.

 

[Pupik]

Un-congested roundabout = Poor man's chicane/ess bends!

A congested roundabout still works better than almost all four-way stops, from my experience. Occasionally, an old person stops in the round part (a big mistake), which has caused one minor accident right in front of me.

Stop/yield (if needed), get in, get out...Simple! But the concept of yielding isn't always well understood by many motorists.

 

[Famine]

Which is opposite of what the rule is in normal intersections.

Eh?

In a right-side country, if you approach a intersection to turn right at it and a car is coming from the left already you don't yield to it?

Didn't work like that for us in the US - I know you can turn right on red unless it's signed (or the State isn't a right-on-red one) otherwise, but you still have to yield to traffic coming from the left. Or Iceland, come to think. Or France. Or Belgium. Or Germany either.

 

[eSZee]

You're supposed yield to whatever is in the intersection. If you come to an intersection with no signs or all sides have stop signs, you yield to those on the right.
You're pretty much always taught to yield to the right.

 

[Jet Badger]

Sureboss, wow, I really never seen such small roundabout that looks really impractical.

This is one of our city's bigger roundabouts, but still, the smallest is probably atleast 20m in diameter.

My nearest roundabout: http://maps.google.lt/maps?q=santar...7104,0.016544&t=k&z=18&lci=com.google.webcams

I really like roundabouts, they're much more efficient. And if some drivers aren't intelligent enough to understand how to drive in a roundabout, then I think they shouldn't be driving at all.

 

[Famine]

You're supposed yield to whatever is in the intersection.

And if you're driving on the right hand side of the road, all intersections are to your left and all traffic in those intersections are to your left...

Vehicles which are not moving are not traffic. Vehicles which are moving are traffic. If you're on the right-hand side of the road and approach any intersection where you no longer have right of way (anything with a yield or stop line) you will yield to traffic to your left, including at a roundabout (which will have a yield or stop line). If there's no traffic, you don't even have to slow down (unless there's a compulsory Stop line). Same for left-handed traffic, but you yield to your right.


Unless the Americans and Icelandics were being nice to the putz with the barcode in his window, I've not encountered anywhere that it's different.

 

[daan]

Sureboss, wow, I really never seen such small roundabout that's looks really impractical.

Oh, they get smaller than that.

Small pimple that masquerades as a roundabout.