S2000 Challenge - Nürburgring

[rossellini]

Unofficial Rankings
Last Update - 19/11/2010



1. MarkWebber 7'38.763 👍
2. Austin343 7:44,860
3. Rossellini 7:44,888
4. Smallhorses 7:47,358
5. mcsqueegy 7:50,133
6. shotamagee 7:51.413
7. MadMax86 7:53,293




Ok guys,
I've started to play GT4 again, and I'd like to make time trial challenge...

Rules:

Arcade Mode

Track - Nürburgring

Car - Honda S2000 '03 (0% Power, 0% Weight)

Driving Aids - Not Allowed

Quick Tune - Not Allowed

Transmission - Manual

Tyre Type - Sports-Soft

Clean Lap - Required

ps Please upload the replays if you can

Important
Due to differences between NTSC and PAL versions I need to write that PAL players need to use Honda S2000 '03 and NTSC players Honda S2000 '04...
Both cars have 243bhp and 1250kg...

 

[LancerEvo7]

Sounds interesting, I won't be able to get a replay but I'll still do a time

 

[rossellini]

Thanks LancerEvo7GSR, I'm looking forward to seeing your times 👍
So far my best clean (100% clean ) lap time is 7:55.746 .
However, I've made some horrible mistakes so I will not post video yet because I bealive it is possible to do 3-4 seconds better time...
I drove 7 laps so far and my best lap is 7:53.XXX but it was not clean.... I went off track once

 

[LancerEvo7]

Only did one lap, 7'58.xxx with a couple split-second nearly-legal offs. Plan on working more once the Raiders-Cowboys game is over so I can have the PS2 back

 

[Smallhorses]

Hmmmm. So I was going to have a crack at this, but it seems there's a little confusion in the car we're supposed to use. In the NTSC U/C version I have, the only 2003 Honda S2000 is this one:

Honda S2000 Type V '03.

Is this the one we're to use, or Honda S2000 '04?

Can you clarify which car we're to use please? Then I'll give it a go.

 

[LancerEvo7]

I already asked. He said the car had around 10 colors, so I'm assuming the S2000 Type-V. That said, my time above is in the '04 S2000.

 

[Smallhorses]

It's kind of pointless for him to clarify it to one person but leave the vagueness in the first post, case in point: I've had to ask as well.
Fix it in the first post that way everyone is clear from the get-go.

I've just had a look, according to Famine's all-version car list, the PAL version has Honda S2000 '03 (10 colours available, 243HP & 1250kg in the time trial starting screen) & Honda S2000 Type V '03 (13 colours available, 241HP & 1270kg in the time trial starting screen), whereas the NTSC version lists the first car as the Honda S2000 '04 (6 colours available, 243HP & 1250kg in the time trial starting screen.)

Given that there's a 2HP & 20kg weight difference between them we need to be clear which we're using as one will be faster than the other and it doesn't make for fair competition if we're racing different cars!!!

I'm going to run with the Honda S2000 Type V '03 for now...

Clean laptime so far is 7'54.479.
This car is a lot of fun to run on this track. 👍

 

[rossellini]

@Smallhorses

I will edit my first post and give you all accurate details when I come home today 👍

and yes the car really is lot of fun on this track, thats why I decided to make this challenge

7:54 is fast time, I bealive that the fastest possible time is around 7:51...
However it's necessary to drive very aggresive to make that time...

My problem is that i've sold my dfp and now I play with broken joypad

edit: can you guys please upload at least photo of your time when you think you've made a fast lap....
ps after posting your fast lap, you can always post a new time if you make faster lap...

 

[rossellini]

7:54.666 is my new record

Edit: I'm sorry for double posting, I've just realized that I can edit every post

Edit2: 7:53.610

it was clean lap, i was out once but only with 2 wheels....also i made 2 or 3 mistakes, so I'm getting closer to my goal (7:51.XXX)

 

[Smallhorses]

Cool! 2 extra horsies and a 20kg diet to play with! Might run a few laps later. 👍
Will we see your replay files or photos rossellini?

I'll be able to post photos and replays, but getting a MAX drive replay is kind of a pig of a task nowadays as my PS2 refuses to read the mini-disc unless it's standing vertically, and is sort of picky about it at the best of times.
My replays will be NTSC format, so unreadable to PAL guys, but if there's an NTSCer that desparately wants to see one then I'll try to get one up.

*EDIT*
Had a good go with the Honda S2000 '04, and it's waaaay quicker than the Type V!
7'50.567 is my new personal best, but there's more to come off that too, I've been almost 1s ahead of this ghost but blow the laps by running off track, so I think a 7'48 or 7'49 might be quite possible if every corner is spot on.
Have a crappy quality video that I took with my camera, but YouTube is down at the moment so I can't upload it. I'll try again later.

 

[rossellini]

wow, 7:50
i need to see that replay

to be honest with you, I don't know how to capture video from ps2...
i can record it with my camera (lcd tv) and put it on youtube, I bealive quality will be ok...
it will be tough to beat you, I'm looking forward to seeing your cornering and speeds in corners, maybe I can learn something...
I'll try to put this 7:53.6 video today

 

[Smallhorses]

​

There you go. 👍
YouTube upgrade is complete and I was able to upload this today.
Apologies for poor quality, I'm filming a 28" widescreen CRT monitor which doesn't give optimal image quality on the camera, and always gives the swirly lines.
All speeds in mph not km/h by the way.

 

[rossellini]

Smallhorses, that was nice and smooth, congratulations...

I don't see any difference between our cars(versions) so I think
it's 100% fair. Only advantage that you have is that you can
control steering, braking and throtle better because you play
with wheel and I play with 100 years old joypad...

However, I uploaded my 7:53 run on youtube so you can give me your
comment
Next time I'll upload vid when I do a time better than 7:51

Also I'd like to see more people driving this challenge

ps In my game Honda S2000 '03 have 10 colours available, not 6....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlKQLNhXeoE



sorry about 1:51, I don't know what happened

 

[Smallhorses]

Nice work too. 👍
Looks like your camera burped for a second or 2 as it skips from 1'41 to 1'43 on the laptimer.

I've edited my other post to show that the PAL Honda S2000 '03 has 10 colours, I was only guessing based on the 6 available for the '04 model here.

I fixed your YouTube link too, for future reference, you only need the end part of the URL after "watch?v=" in between the YouTube tags, in this case you'd have put "VlKQLNhXeoE" in there.

Click edit on your previous post and you should be able to see how it works. 👍

 

[mcsqueegy]

I decided to give this a few laps, a fun car to drive! My best laptime is 7'50.133. Looking at Smallhorses' replay, he lost half a second to me in T11-Finish, which was lucky for me . I also lost half a second in the corner before T2, but I caught up and ended up losing it again . Replay to come soon, if possible.

 

[SVX]

 

[Austin343]

While I really wish that we were using the tires that best approximate the ones with which the car is equipped in reality, which are N1s and not these outrageously grippy S3s, I did do a 7'44.860. It was my second completed lap (granted, I did have about five laps during which I ran wide or crashed midway through), so I'm sure I can do better, but that will suffice for now. When I find the camera (which my mother leaves in inexplicable places around the house), I'll record a video.

rossellini, the common belief that the wheel produces faster times than does the controller is simply not true. I suspect that your thought process, at least subconsciously, proceeds like this: "Since GT4 is a simulator, one will be fastest when using controls most like those in real life." Unfortunately, there's a logical fallacy within that statement: GT4 isn't a simulator. It vaguely approximates reality, but the fact is that its forgiving physics engine places value more on quickness, which the DS2 provides, than on smoothness and precision, which a wheel provides. Granted, I use the analog sticks, which are closer to a wheel than are the buttons, but trust me, I use almost exclusively full lock (full braking, steering as far left and right as the stick will go, and, since this car has no wheelspin on the fantasy tires, full throttle as well). Only in gradual corners do I utilize the more refined aspects of the steering, minimizing tire noise and the speed loss with which is associated.

I think you're too reluctant to use the grass, which is scarcely punished by GT4's physics; I prefer to keep all four tires on the tarmac and curbs, too, but I ignore that inhibition during time trials, when you can most certainly obtain a much faster time than you can when trying to maintain some semblance of realism.

 

[oldmodelt]

Also I'd like to see more people driving this challenge

Will try once I beat #34. .269 back after about 50 runs.

 

[rossellini]

Nice work too. 👍
Looks like your camera burped for a second or 2 as it skips from 1'41 to 1'43 on the laptimer.

I've edited my other post to show that the PAL Honda S2000 '03 has 10 colours, I was only guessing based on the 6 available for the '04 model here.

I fixed your YouTube link too, for future reference, you only need the end part of the URL after "watch?v=" in between the YouTube tags, in this case you'd have put "VlKQLNhXeoE" in there.

Click edit on your previous post and you should be able to see how it works. 👍

Thanks for fixing my post, and for explanation 👍

rossellini, the common belief that the wheel produces faster times than does the controller is simply not true. I suspect that your thought process, at least subconsciously, proceeds like this: "Since GT4 is a simulator, one will be fastest when using controls most like those in real life." Unfortunately, there's a logical fallacy within that statement: GT4 isn't a simulator. It vaguely approximates reality, but the fact is that its forgiving physics engine places value more on quickness, which the DS2 provides, than on smoothness and precision, which a wheel provides. Granted, I use the analog sticks, which are closer to a wheel than are the buttons, but trust me, I use almost exclusively full lock (full braking, steering as far left and right as the stick will go, and, since this car has no wheelspin on the fantasy tires, full throttle as well). Only in gradual corners do I utilize the more refined aspects of the steering, minimizing tire noise and the speed loss with which is associated.

I understand this, but I remember doing better times with DFP (I've sold it)..
And since I don't play ps2 almost at all, I don't even have ds2 with analog sticks..

There will be top list for this challenge after verifying your times... but so far there's no deadline for posting time just because I'd like to have as many participants as possible... But there will be deadline to close this challenge, just not that soon

 

[MadMax]

I gave this a guick go and ran 7'53.293 in the Honda HONDA S2000 '03 (PAL) ,
but I see there no point using different cars for this as the chassis and gearing can be very different.

I know that having egual power and weight means nothing.
It's the suspension and transmission that makes the difference even in stock form.



MadMax

 

[Austin343]

I thought that, too, but I don't think that any difference that exists is major. Comparing Smallhorses' and rossellini's videos, it's evident that the gearing is identical. And while it's certainly possible that the suspension settings are different, GT4's programmers often took the lazy and practical way out of having to find out the real cars' settings by simply making them identical across model years. See post number 31 of this thread as an example.

 

[Smallhorses]

I know what you're saying about the wheel Austin, but I can see rossellini's perspective too, it's all about what you're used to.
I for one played GT1, GT2 & GT3 as a total D-pad & button masher, and never did learn the analogue sticks. I wasn't a slowcoach either and used to race Div 1 in GT3 WRS.
GT4 came along and the self-centering physics were just awful with the D-pad and I opted to obtain a wheel... I've never looked back, and can safely say that now I'm used to it, the wheel is miles better, and I couldn't come close to matching my laptimes with a D-pad. (Hell I'd be lucky to get round Nurb' in under 10 minutes!!!) If rossellini has been mostly used to driving with the wheel and has gone back to the DS2, then the times he's running are pretty impressive, and will improve with more controller practice.

With regards to MadMax86's comments, it'd be interesting to get a shot of the stock gearing (from GT mode) of the PAL '03 car and the NTSC '04 car. It'll be difficult to tell much as there are no numbers displayed.
I have been short-shifting this car especially in the higher gears (4th, 5th) due to the fact that the torque curve for the S2000 takes a nose-dive at ~8000RPM, even though the redline is 1000RPM higher.

I'm imagining the difference is just the way cars are released in US, for some reason a new car released in, say, March (or is it May?) 2003 is sold as a 2004 model. (Woohoo! Cars from the future!!!) My 1995 Miata, for example, was manufactured and sold in 1994.
I'm not sure how this works in other countries, and perhaps MadMax86 or rossellini could clarify with respect to their local markets in PAL-land, as indeed could mcsqueegy who's also PAL and has run an almost identical (I get cautious at the end of a lap where I'm ahead of the ghost!!!) laptime to my '04 NTSC time in the '03 PAL.
I knew a Div 1 Alien

& 'Ring-master like Austin would annihilate my times though. Can't wait to see that video!
I need to put some time into this weeks Tuning Garage Challenge race, but will be back to bust into the high end of the 7'40s at this sometime later. 👍

Here's some shots of the stock NTSC Honda S2000 '04's data, note incorrect 247HP max in top right corner, but correct 243HP max on Engine Curve graph!

 

[Austin343]

I wish I could show you a video now, but I've searched the house thoroughly and absolutely cannot find the camera. I know it seems very "convenient," but I assure you that I used the correct car with the correct settings and ran a clean lap. If my word is insufficient (and this is the Internet, after all), you can click the Youtube link in my signature and find the videos I have of various cars, such as the Yellow Bird, on this track. All of that is probably unnecessary, though, since I expect to be able to unearth the camera from some unlikely corner of the house sometime this weekend.

Smallhorses, your driving is truly a pleasure to watch. Whereas mine is very rough in the "on-off" style of the DS2, yours has a fantastic continuity and smoothness that especially comes through in the sound as you transition between throttle and brakes, and vice versa. The first sector, particularly the first of the two left-right complexes, exemplifies that beautifully. By the way, when you return to improve your lap time, I recommend shifting 100-200 RPM into the redline; although the power and torque do dwindle at that point, the slowness of the next gear outweighs that.

 

[MadMax]

Here you go Smallhorses :

I tried to mimic your pictures as close as possible, but something isn't the same

MadMax

 

[Smallhorses]

Check your units, try changing to HP & lb/ft for torque.
Otherwise you've got 55 more "torques" than the NTSC users and that should actually put the PAL guys at a distinct advantage, not disadvantage!

 

[MadMax]

Check your units, try changing to HP & lb/ft for torque.
Otherwise you've got 55 more "torques" than the NTSC users and that should actually put the PAL guys at a distinct advantage, not disadvantage!

Good point, set the torgue as lb/ft and it reads 161 "torgues" now.

So.. the 03 and 04 seem to be the same.



MadMax

 

[SVX]

Except,NTSC'S one is called a Honda S2000,and PAL'S is called a Honda HONDA S2000.

 

[Austin343]

He doesn't mean that they have the same name; he's just saying that their performance appears to be identical.

Meanwhile, I have the video of my lap. You can certainly see where I took corners too fast or too slowly, but I don't think I'm more than two seconds away from the best lap I could achieve in this car.

 

[rossellini]

Wow, Austin, thanks for posting this... It helped me to improve alot..
After watching your vid, I did 7:47.XXX.... However it wasn't 100% clean...
And now I understand why did you said GT is far from simulation, your style of driving helps alot in GT to make better times, but in real life it would be really stupid, impossible and way slower to drive like this...

 

[Smallhorses]

Went back to this last night after fighting an unwieldy BMW M5 around Opera Paris for a while, and it's such a pleasure to get back into the wide sweepy turns of Nurburgring! 👍

Shaved 1.5s off my total and can see where I'm losing time to Austin in many places, but took his advice on leaving the shifts later and it paid off.

Now at 7'49.080. No video as yet, but will happily shoot one if required.

*Edit*
...and better still. A clean 7'47.358