Scientology - Religion, Cult or Scam?

[W3H5]

First let me clarify that I feel no personal hate towards any persons of any faith for what they believe, except Satanists who can all go to Hell (see what I did there ). I don't feel this belongs in a general religion thread so here goes.

Many years I've spent schooling myself on religion and the subject of deities / gods so for me The Church of Scientology causes quite some confusion / amusement.

I'd like to get some opinions from you about what you think of Scientology, and it would be great to hear from any members who practice it.

The Church hold religion status in many countries and therefore is tax exempt as an organisation where this status holds.

Members can only progress to the higher branches of the Church through financial input.

There are sub-branches of the Church which can also be found on the Wiki page and a good documentary for reference by BBC Panorama called The Truth Behind Scientology if you feel like further swatting up on the subject.

Now, here's the thing: I'm a practising Force Observer; a Scholar of The Force. In everyday terms I'm what is referred to as a Je'daii*; I take lots of life philosophy from Sci-Fi media the same way Scientology does. But my belief doesn't limit my involvement based on my finances. It doesn't claim to be a verified religion despite have religious status in a few countries and over half a million known followers world wide. Scientology claims that psychiatry is false and that chemical imbalances don't exist meaning it could well be preventing followers from having treatment that could be live improving or even life saving. These topics, among others surrounding the CoS, I feel are worth discussing.



So here are just a few things to get the discussion started. Please remember the AUP and keep facts factual and opinions as civil as possible.

*Not to be confused with Jedi, but in a similar vein (no, I can't do telekinesis). It's more related to Qi (Chinese force energy and its balance) than anything else but the name sort of stuck after a while. I'm using this as an example because of the similarities in its background.

 

[sumbrownkid]

The mere fact of requiring money to move up the ranks (why would a religion need your money to enable you to become more faithful?) and it regards the well established field of psychology/psychiatry as a pseudo science makes me put Scientology in the insanity bin.

In fact, the word science in Scientology is perhaps the biggest trait of this fraud.

Brains don't use chemicals to work? Sure, and cars don't need gas to function.

 

[W3H5]

It's the biggest part of it I fail to understand. I know the Catholic Church used to charge to see relics in the same way so people could be promised a place in heaven until somebody pointed out that faith shouldn't have to cost a single penny.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Those indulgence were one of the many reasons why Protestants came to being. In this case however, it's snagging up our Hollywood stars.

I personally think that Tom Cruise, Will Smith, and others in the film world are really atheist at heart and just want to be Scientologists for the publicity, and for the lols.

No serious person of education would accept that the art of Psychology is hogwash.

 

[Tornado]

I think it is all just an elaborate tax shelter, personally.

 

[DK]

It's the biggest part of it I fail to understand. I know the Catholic Church used to charge to see relics in the same way so people could be promised a place in heaven until somebody pointed out that faith shouldn't have to cost a single penny.

Especially when it's just been upgraded to a higher class of relic:

[/Father Ted reference]

 

[Dennisch]

The South Park episode about Scientology pretty much sums it up.

 

[ghskilla]

I've heard of a story where they chased down a deserter, found her in a hotel, locked her in her room, and left her there for weeks. She was found dead and with bug bites on her. She was starved to death, IIRC.

They say once you get in, you'll never get out.

 

[Zenith]

The South Park episode about Scientology pretty much sums it up.

As someone who doesn't watch that show, can I get the Cliff Notes?

 

[Liquid]

Allegations of harrassment and intimidation against outsiders, former members and investigators don't endear it to me. I think it was Hubbard himself who said, paraphrasing, that those who try to uncover Scientology are "fair game" for intimidation, stalking and such.

I don't like the tax exemption statuses of any religion, and Scientology is no exception.

A tax sheltering cult of false premises and false promises.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Having to donate money to prove your faith appears to be a modern day version of a religious sacrifice.

 

[Ibonibo]

Dennisch is right,


And don't believe it's either one of those, it's a sect. THe top tier people slave the lower ends, torture, intimidate, extort,...

Have seen a number of documentaries on it and I don't have any positive thoughts about it or them. I would like to say I don't understand how someone can be that stupid to fall into it, but some people who are in crisis are blinded,...

In germany it is not considered a religion and goverment and organisation are heavily fighting against that crap

 

[PeterJB]

Richard Dawkins once hinted that he was more open to the concept of something more along the lines of Scientology than any of the mainstream Religions, which quite surprised me (Basically said that he would be less opposed to the idea of a deity that was a being from another star system that was so highly evolved it could have breathed life on to Earth than the type of eternal, all powerful deity revered by most religions).

I just see it as yet another cult to have come out of the States.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Richard Dawkins once hinted that he was more open to the concept of something more along the lines of Scientology than any of the mainstream Religions, which quite surprised me (Basically said that he would be less opposed to the idea of a deity that was a being from another star system that was so highly evolved it could have breathed life on to Earth than the type of eternal, all powerful deity revered by most religions).

I just see it as yet another cult to have come out of the States.

To be fair, I agree with Dawkins point of view on that, if what you say is accurate.

 

[Scaff]

They do have a track record for being a bit naughty....

Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's name for a conspiracy during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members, in more than 30 countries;[1] the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[3] This was also the operation that exposed 'Operation Freakout', because this was the case that initiated the US government investigation of the Church.[3]

Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Eleven highly-placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second-in-command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property. The case was United States v. Mary Sue Hubbard et al., 493 F.Supp. 209 (D.D.C. 1979).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

Operation Freakout, also known as Operation PC Freakout, was a Church of Scientology covert plan intended to have the US author and journalist Paulette Cooper imprisoned or committed to a mental institution. The plan, undertaken in 1976 following years of Church-initiated lawsuits and covert harassment, was meant to eliminate the perceived threat that Cooper posed to the Church and obtain revenge for her publication in 1971 of a highly-critical book, The Scandal of Scientology. The Federal Bureau of Investigation discovered documentary evidence of the plot and the preceding campaign of harassment during an investigation into the Church of Scientology in 1977, eventually leading to the Church compensating Cooper in an out-of-court settlement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

and...............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guardian's_Office_operations

 

[hogger129]

Scam.

All I agree with them about is that medication is overprescribed and anti-depressants ruin people.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Hoax, scam, and a lie.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

It's a religion, which also means that its also a scam and a hoax.

 

[Johnnypenso]

L. Ron was a good SciFi writer. Battlefield Earth is still one of my favourite SciFi books. I always believed Scientology came about when he was sitting around with Asimov, Heinlein and the boys and out of the blue said, "I'm going to make up a religion, it's going to be a complete crock, a bunch of made up crap, it's going to cost money to get ahead in it, but it'll sound so outrageous, I guarantee you these Hollywood wackos will sign up in droves. All I have to do is suck in a couple of them and the rest will follow. Can't lose, just don't rat me out guys"

And Scientology was born...I think L. Ron was the ultimate carnival huckster and took his secret to the grave...

 

[W3H5]

Especially when it's just been upgraded to a higher class of relic:

Down with that sort of thing!

And don't believe it's either one of those, it's a sect. THe top tier people slave the lower ends, torture, intimidate, extort,...

So in essence, it's a pyramid scheme, is what you're saying?

Richard Dawkins once hinted that he was more open to the concept of something more along the lines of Scientology than any of the mainstream Religions, which quite surprised me (Basically said that he would be less opposed to the idea of a deity that was a being from another star system that was so highly evolved it could have breathed life on to Earth than the type of eternal, all powerful deity revered by most religions).

I find Dawkings to be strongly against religion but very little of his writings actually go towards disproving God.

In fairness the back story of Scientology isn't always known by followers and many of them laugh at the idea of the texts that the faith is based on.

I don't think it's any more far-fetched (what am I saying?) than some other mainstream religions. Especially members of the Jedi faith who base their ideals on another work of Sci-Fi.

L. Ron was a good SciFi writer. Battlefield Earth is still one of my favourite SciFi books. I always believed Scientology came about when he was sitting around with Asimov, Heinlein and the boys and out of the blue said, "I'm going to make up a religion, it's going to be a complete crock, a bunch of made up crap, it's going to cost money to get ahead in it, but it'll sound so outrageous, I guarantee you these Hollywood wackos will sign up in droves. All I have to do is suck in a couple of them and the rest will follow. Can't lose, just don't rat me out guys

I actually think that was his plan all along, he just didn't realise who it would grow into what it is today. The difference (I keep bringing this up) between L. Ron and George Lucas is that George, I don't think, didn't expect the Jedi pheonomenum to take off like it did whereas L. Ron no doubt dreamt of being idolised and growing wealthy off the back of his creation.

And Scientology was born...I think L. Ron was the ultimate carnival huckster and took his secret to the grave...

Despite being a big fat liar (I have facts to prove this) I quite admire the guy for what he's left behind.

 

[terminator363]

It's a Scam!

 

[Nero9]

 

[BobK]

L. Ron was a good SciFi writer. Battlefield Earth is still one of my favourite SciFi books. I always believed Scientology came about when he was sitting around with Asimov, Heinlein and the boys and out of the blue said, "I'm going to make up a religion, it's going to be a complete crock, a bunch of made up crap, it's going to cost money to get ahead in it, but it'll sound so outrageous, I guarantee you these Hollywood wackos will sign up in droves. All I have to do is suck in a couple of them and the rest will follow. Can't lose, just don't rat me out guys"

And Scientology was born...I think L. Ron was the ultimate carnival huckster and took his secret to the grave...

I have also seen that, not the exact quote but basically that sentiment. Specifically that the way to make money was to found a religion, there are plenty of gullible people around and it's all tax-exempt.