Sense of self - a rant by Ten.

[Ten]

DISCLAIMER: Proofreading this, it seems like a cry for help, or a potential suicide in the making. Please don't misinterperet it as this. I just have many questions I need answered. I'm not asking that every one of them find resolution in a simple thread on the net, but I am looking to see if I am the only one who feels like this.

To me, I am the center of my existence. The most important thing in my world is myself. Now, I don't mean this in a self-centered, narcissistic way. What I mean is that what happens to me has the most direct effect on my life. If I break an arm, I am limited to what I can do. If I get arrested, I'm stuck in jail and cannot continue my life until I am released.

If I die...

You get the idea.

The same goes for anybody. But when you try to look objectively - through the eyes of another - it's only then that it hits you. "To this person, I am NOT the most important thing in their existance. If I died, they'd live on...but what would happen to me?"

At least that's what happens to me. Think about where you stand in life. Are you happy? Are you sad? Are you content? Now ask yourself if it really matters. You're alive, aren't you? Just why aren't you happy? Isn't there something you could do to relieve that sadness? Why haven't you done it? Is your arm broken? Are you in jail? You surely aren't dead...

Or is it that sometimes you want to be?

On the subject of death, when another passes - not just any other, a significant other - do you feel horrible? Like you can't imagine life without them? This counteracts my first statement, because as you live, you attach yourself to things, to people. They become a part of you. When they die, you can feel that part die. You want to join them. You don't want them to go, at least not without you.

You cry. You hurt yourself. You scream. You cuss. You break something. You never truly heal.

You can't heal what's dead.

Memories are all you have left - and in all these memories, you were with this person. You remember the times that made you happy. The times you were sad, and they made you happy. The times you were just together. No matter how you look at it, no matter how many times you try to remember vividly - they aren't coming back. There will be no new memories. All you can do is preserve the ones you have.

You keep them with you. You put them at the back of your mind. They resurface when you truly need them.

Falling down into yourself, you lose track of reality. Sadness overwhelms you. Coffee loses it's flavor. The drive to work is silent. You can't validate your own being. Life will never be fun again - they're gone. What's the point? You block that question out. You fear what you might do if you read too deep.

Every person has the ability to end life - it's the will to continue that you'll have to find at these times.

So you pray. Or you don't. Maybe you find a hobby. Maybe you drive your car off a cliff. No matter what you do, you make a decision that will have a direct affect on your being. Where will your life go now?

The connection between people is a funny thing. Two people may be connected so closely, that if one passes on, the other will follow out of grief and sorrow - whearas another two total strangers could die on opposite sides of the street to eachother's guns, and anyone else could just skim their eyes over the obituary column and catch a name, not thinking a thing but, "People die every day..."

What I can't understand is why that connection is so...disconnected.

I don't care about purpose to my being. I don't want to know how the universe came to be. I just want to understand what it is that makes myself, me...

I've spent a lot of time searching for answers, one such quest leading here. Don't ask me why this matters so much to me, or why I think so deeply on questions that may not really matter. Duke and Pako can vouch for me - I worry a little too much about who I am. Not who I protray myself as to the world, but who I am to myself. Who I am to the one who really matters - me.

Please tell me I'm not some crazy nutjob who needs to seek help - I know I can't be the only one who thinks about this sort of thing. I'll accept science, philosophy, religion, anything as information that may help me find the answers I'm looking for. Your opinions, your feedback, your remarks about how crazy I am - please, let me hear them.

 

[Ev0]

Well, after reading your rant (just a wee bit disorganized), I have found I have been kicking around similar questions in my own head. Hopefully I can at least provide some sort of answer to at least one of your questions.

I've found that one's first and foremost concern should be to live for yourself. It's a simple concept, at least in theory, and it's a pretty sound one I've found, considering you've got to live with yourself for your whole life. I wish I could better express what's on my mind right now, but that should at least cover the basics.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Ten, have you ever read the book "The Five People You Meet In Heaven" by Mitch Albom? I think you'd really like it, particularly because it answers many of your questions without being overly religious or even the slightest bit Christian, despite its suggestive title.

It's a short book and a best-seller, and I think you should read it if you haven't already.

You can read the write-up on it from amazon.com here.

 

[Ten]

Thank you both for your isight, and I will indeed give that book read when I can, Anderton. Thank you.

Yes, sorry for the lack of organization, I was sort of in a rush to get it all out while it was fresh on my mind - resulting in, well, all that. ^^;

 

[Coleio]

Maybe you need to, i don't know how to put it but, discover your spiritual side. Like looking deeper into your personality, everything that makes you who you are. Maybe travelling to quiet, peaceful, spiritual sometimes even holy destinations to have some quiet time and try and search for an answer for an outlook on life and what sort of life you are living. Whats making you un-happy? Is there a way round this unhappiness? These are the sorts of questions you could ask your self and look deeply into. I don't know if thats a load of rubbish to you but i think it's at least a little helpful. Hope you find your answers your looking for.

 

[Danoff]

I'll accept science, philosophy, religion, anything as information that may help me find the answers I'm looking for.

Perhaps you're looking for information that helps you find the answers you want to hear.

To me, I am the center of my existence. The most important thing in my world is myself.

That might be true now.... but that can change.

The connection between people is a funny thing. Two people may be connected so closely, that if one passes on, the other will follow out of grief and sorrow - whearas another two total strangers could die on opposite sides of the street to eachother's guns, and anyone else could just skim their eyes over the obituary column and catch a name, not thinking a thing but, "People die every day..."

What I can't understand is why that connection is so...disconnected.

The human emotional attachment is directly related to raising children. Our offspring are more likely to survive long enough to procreate if they have multiple parents looking out for them. Pair bonding is rampant in nature because it is the least complex way to maintain a diverse gene pool.

Human emotions are the way they are because the early humans that had those emotions procreated more often and more successfully than alternatives (and this can be extended to evolution that occured before humans which we inherited).

That's the scientific explanation and it falls directly from evolution. What's the religious answer? Why does god allow us to care so little if someone we don't know dies?

 

[PS]

Ten, what you need to do is stop caring about it. It's the only real way to go through life, is to stop caring what you are. If you spend too much time trying to figure out who or what you are, you're never going to do it. Only after you've experienced everything and seen a great deal, can you ever possibly begin to scratch the surface of what or who you are. Anything can happen, as I'm sure you're aware, and when you take that into consideration you should realise that you can change. So before you try and figure who, what, when, or why, ask yourself why you're questioning your existence. And think about it real hard.

 

[Duke]

"Love is defined by the condition wherein another person's happiness becomes essential to your own." -Robert Heinlein

Ten, my father died just about 8 years ago. Ask Gil; his died more recently than that. We were close. Not freakily close, but I had a great deal of respect and love for him. Since then I've had to confront the possible death of my mother as well.

Have I survived? Of course. Has my life lost meaning? Of course not. Do I miss him? Every day. Every time I need to know something he would have known about or could have made. Every time I see something he would have found interesting.

Although he is in large part responsible for my identity, he is not my identity. My life has not lost meaning with his death... if anything, it has gained meaning as I carry on.

 

[Minnesota01R6]

I have another book suggestion: "making sense of it all" by Thomas V. Morris. It definetly has a christian slant, but I enjoyed it and I'm about 99% atheist. It's $10.88 on amazon.com.

Also, I have found that the types of questions you are asking have no concrete answers, and you may find yourself in "analysis paralysis". These are important questions, and you need to find out what you believe, but at the same time you can only encounter a small portion of the Truth in one lifetime. I may live for my fiancee as well as for myself, but it is advantageous for me to do so, so in reality I am just living for myself (or maybe not?).

I would also urge you to take a class on the philosophy of ethics. I learned a great deal about different philisophical approaches to my questions in my ethics class. Here's a link related to one topic we covered in my class: http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/Egoism.html

 

[Ten]

Thank you all, again, for the input. My internet connection has recently been severly compromised, so it's rare for me to stop by GTP currently.

PS, I appreciate the advice, but if it were that easy, this post wouldn't exist. I've tried countless times to just think, "Meh, there are more important things in life..." but I just can't get it out of my head.

Another book to look up - thank you. Books are an inexhaustible resource for information. I'll be sure to check these titles out as soon as I get the oppurtunity.

I'd had more to say, but my internet is on the verge of failing again. I appreciate the help. Thank you all very much.

 

[PS]

If you want a book for not only insight to some (emphasis on SOME- not all) of life's questions, and how you can cope with tragedy/drugs/whatever, I suggest you pick up "Long Hard Road Out Of Hell".

But seriously, why are you questioning yourself? Doubt leads to insecurity. Insecurity leads to recluse. Reclusion leads to sadness, and sadness leads to depression. I don't need to tell you what depression leads to, but unfortunately (not that this has to do with it) many gays have fallen victim to suicide. My mom's...friend's son who was gay killed himself, and I hope to god that wherever you live it's accepting.

Now as I've heard, you've only had a couple experiences of "gay bashing", which is good, as some places are a lot less accepting, but just don't let it turn into that. Try to stay strong. Don't question yourself, get to know yourself. There's a fine line between the two, but it's a strong one that I suggest you head very carefully.

It's quite amazing how sensitive the human mind is. I mean, look at me, I'm unphased by just about everything. I'm rarely excited over something not much repulses me. I dunno, something must've happened to me as a kid or something. Too many violent movies when I was little...who knows. the point is, just keep your head high and try to think clearly. As I'm aware you're not a "model catholic" (you be a sinner boy!!! jp), so I suppose I can trust you to try and think on a more logical than spiritual side. If you can narrow down whatever is bugging you then perhaps we can all be of a bit more help. Who knows, maybe you just need to meet some new people or your just in a bit of a rut right now, things can change any minute, just remember that.

 

[Ten]

My "spiritual side" is more a representation of all that I can't answer. I'm not subscribed to any faith, or really investing my trust in any. However, I do value the input of those with religious views to offer me.

As for why I'm so hung up on all this, I suppose all I can say is that I'm just painfully curious. I may not learn the answers to all of my questions, but surely I will learn something I hadn't intended to along the way.

How does it go? Something like, "the journey is more important than the destination"?

Duke - Thank you for that insight. Perhaps I've been looking at it too negitively. There are indeed times when I have felt that I was made stronger by pulling through the loss of of a loved one.

danoff - I hope I have not been misinterpereted. There are people who I value over myself right now, as has there always been, and always will be. But I was not speaking in that manner - I meant that to my own existence, my being is key. Without me, there is no world for me to know.

I'm sorry if anything I am saying is confusing or frustrating to anyone. These are my thoughts, from my head, as they were when I typed them. I tried to be as literal as possible, and use as little metaphors or similies as I could.

 

[Ten]

My internet connection renewed, I am back. Oddly enough, I have recieved a few emails/PMs regarding the continuation of this thread! Surprisingly enough, people want to know how my search goes.

I won't disappoint.

I've been to the library 3 times, closed for rennovation. The book research will have to wait until later, a few months or so. However, I have made progress using life experiences in my absence.

I hadn't spoken to my best (and first) friend in over a year. I was back in my old hometown for about a month, so I decided to make contact. I quickly learned that it was nearly impossible to get ahold of him. He was always at his fiancee's house or the college campus playing cards in the lounge. When he was home, he was on the internet - and being a dial-up user, you can guess what happened. When I could, I would hop online. He would never be on his messenger, and he never answered my emails.

I turned to my friends, who still live in that area. They all shared the same experience with me - but they were fed up with it. After a week or so of trying, I finally got through to him. We arranged a time to hang out, and he showed up for about 4 hours. To no one's surprise, he brought his fiancee along, and spent more time playing the giddy boyfriend with her than he did paying any attention to us. He went home. That was that. He promised to call us to make more plans. Nothing. All week. Nothing. When we finally got a call through to him, we asked him if he wanted to come along for the road trip back to my home. He said he would call, and we assured him that we would not call him. We were tired of his neglegence, and he said he understood.

"Don't worry, I'll call you guys the day before you leave to let you know if I can go or not."

The call never came.

I met him when we were 8. I'm going to be 22 this May. He hadn't seen me in over a year prior to my recent visit. He disregarded all forms of contact I tried to make with him, and when we did meet up, he paid me absolutely no attention. Forgive me if I sound jealous - I'm not that type - but the rest of my friends can vouch for me - he really doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself and his woman.

What have I learned from all this? What lesson did I stumble into when I picked up the phone and dialed his number the first time?

People change, and circumstance has great influence upon that. What you do and who you are can be turned around in an instant, based on who you meet and where you go. My value as a person has diminished greatly in the eyes of my best and oldest friend. I feel as if I don't even matter to him anymore. All of his friends feel the same.

Circumstance is more powerful than the deepest, strongest bond. A lesson with a negative curve, but a lesson nonetheless.

Forgive me if that sounded like a sob story. I'm not seeking pity, so don't feel obligated to lend a shoulder. Just updating the thread as requested.

 

[Mecal]

I'll accept science, philosophy, religion, anything as information that may help me find the answers I'm looking for.

^ noooo!

Dont accept something just because it gives you a simple answer! (im pretty much looking at religion here) I hope you mean "religious teachings" and not "accpepting ______ (form of relgion: christianity, judaism, buddist. etc)


not to get into a religious discussion, but religious teachings have much to offer, but accepting the entire religion is a different story.


in anycase, yeah, ive kinda thought the same things as you.
But lemme say that, if you hear about someone getting killed, you dont really care. Thats because you never knew them, you havent spent years/months talking to them and getting to know them and whatnot. The guy that was killed is just a name to you, but your g/f - b/f or whatever significant other you knew for a long time.

they mean something to you as oppsed to that guy that you never knew, or even heard of until you read his name in the paper.
You have no memeories of him, good or bad.
Your significant other on the other hand, you have many - enough to write a book.

hm, and about being the center. Of course you are, you are you. You may care about people, and everything, but what happens to you (or someone else, as you stated) is more important.
Your friend got an F on the final exam, but so did you! You care more about getting your grade up than his.

 

[Ten]

religious teachings have much to offer, but accepting the entire religion is a different story.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. And I'm not looking for simple answers. If that were the case, I'd just say God created everything to be complicated and leave it at that.

 

[Mecal]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. And I'm not looking for simple answers. If that were the case, I'd just say God created everything to be complicated and leave it at that.

heh ok, i thought so,

but when you said you'd accept anything i thought:

p.s. i hope there was more to my post than that 💡
then again, i type quickly, so it was no big deal

 

[Ten]

I caught what you meant with the rest, no worries. ^^

EDIT:

THIS is an example of an inadvertant stumbling unto another answer. (username: Setsuna)