Shift 2 v1.02 Patch

[brambos]

I've been breaking records and setting great times all night. It's superb!

Anyone who still talks about this game being "undrivable" is
- exaggerating to the point of being ridiculous
- having problems setting up his gear

👍

 

[paulpg87]

@paulpg87: Would you mind sharing your wheel settings? I m on ps3 with a DFGT as well and it still feels the same as before 1.02 to me.

Before you ask: Yes, I did reset the wheel setting, tuned it again - to no effect. Also I tune my cars, inscrease steering lock, stiff suspension etc.

But that godfreakindamn lag is still there, as well as the shaking and floatiness on the straights.

100%
1%
65%
0%
60%
0&
70% ( i like sensitive brakes, ypou can puy what you want here and also for trottle)
0%
50%
0%
0%
720
720

tuning in steerling locks: 34, 75 in advanced and quick.

 

[Mike0105]

Just a thought about the need for games to have patches these day, could it be that as the demand for bigger and better games rises, these get far more complex. Especially racing games with complex physics. Couple this with an ever increasing demand for the best games with the shortest development time to maximise profits, developers need hurry the process up more because the publishers will demand this done ASAP. Delays cost more and more now, so are not acceptable.

GT5 would be the exception the proves the rule on this.

 

[Luminis]

GT5 would be the exception the proves the rule on this.

I would hardly call that an exception to that rule. Most certainly not GT5.

 

[Mike0105]

I would hardly call that an exception to that rule. Most certainly not GT5.

In the sense that it wasn't forced out over a year, but was allowed 6 years to fester in development.

It also seems that GT5 is over simplified as a game, complex physics are fine and no patches have been needed, but the game itself was sub par and needed fixing.

Shift and others are fine in the game bit, its the physics and complex bits that needed fixing.

 

[GumShoe]

^ Complex physics in gt5, not quite... No patches needed *cough 1.09 cough*

Physics and complex bits in Shift 2 don't need fixing, just general bugs here and there.

GT5 turned itself into the rushed case worse than all other racers on a tight schedule, because they constantly chose to add more features instead of refining and improving the core game.

 

[Luminis]

In the sense that it wasn't forced out over a year, but was allowed 6 years to fester in development.

It also seems that GT5 is over simplified as a game, complex physics are fine and no patches have been needed, but the game itself was sub par and needed fixing.

Shift and others are fine in the game bit, its the physics and complex bits that needed fixing.

In the sense that even a game that spend that friggin' long in development and still received patches, it is not the exception from the rule, it is the very epitome of that rule.

And whatever it is that needs fixing, it is a problem with the product that had to be fixed. Crappy, unfinished product upon release that is partially fixed bit by bit afterwards - if GT5 doesn't fit that, then I can't think of many other games that would fit that supposed rule any better.

 

[Mike0105]

I meant the rule being that games are rushed out to meet the demand of the publishers.

GT can't have been rushed throughout it's development, yes to the end of the cycle because it still wasn't finished, but they spent a long time making it. The bits that needed patching seemed to be to rectify poor decisions in the gameplay style such as PP, gearbox ratio's, seasonals etc. These seemed to add to the game rather than fix it.

In shift 2, the patches are there to correct more fundamental problems with the game, such as the input systems (lag and floating) and hopefully one day the lock-ups. The gameplay structure and style are fairly sound.

Physics was the wrong word to use on that one, hands up.

The basic point i was getting at is that games are more complicated and now need to be developed quicker to meet the demands if the growing industry. This means more opportunity for them to have bugs that need patching. Online aspects compound this because it is now possible to fix post release.

GT5 didn't come quickly after 4 to meet sony's profit desires, but they took their time to create a perfect sim. It's just a shame they failed after so long. It's good as an encyclopaedia and the physics seem sound (for console games), but as a game it missed the mark. And became dull quickly. But that is a debate for another forum.

Edit: I just want to add that this post release fixing is good if it is necessary, but it seems to me that it is being abused to shorten the development time and costs.

DLC is the same, great on principle, but paying for stuff that should already be in the game is not. Shift 2 DLC seems to buck the trend by adding quality content.

 

[brambos]

GT5 turned itself into the rushed case worse than all other racers on a tight schedule, because they constantly chose to add more features instead of refining and improving the core game.

Worse, they never got to work on the core game before release. It looks like Kaz and friends spent more time on the Museum cards and horns collection than on creating a decent A-spec career.

And apparently their UI designer quit after GT4.

 

[Firehuntah]

Worse, they never got to work on the core game before release. It looks like Kaz and friends spent more time on the Museum cards and horns collection than on creating a decent A-spec career.

You do know there's over 200 premium cars right? And they're the best car models in a game I've seen so far. This is where they spent the most time on and the physics are also still the best in my opinion (on consoles). More A-spec events would've been nice but online racing is where GT5 is the most fun anyway.

Makes me sad to see so many people bashing or put aside GT5. Shift 2 definately is a great game but in my opinion it doesn't even come close to beating GT5 in terms of physics and FFB for wheel users.

And who even cares about the UI, isn't a racing game about driving a car? Couldn't care less if the menus were in pink or something as long as I can just select a car and a track easily.

 

[brambos]

You do know there's over 200 premium cars right? And they're the best car models in a game I've seen so far.

And they spent excessive amounts of time on those models just for those who like to do fake-car photography. On the track you never see all those details. Just like the horns and museum cards: a big waste of resources.

6 months in man-hours per car? Fire your 3D modelers and get some proper 3D designers instead.

And who even cares about the UI, isn't a racing game about driving a car? Couldn't care less if the menus were in pink or something as long as I can just select a car and a track easily.

If you think UI design is just about colors and graphics you're still living in the 80s. A proper UI design lets you get everywhere quickly, provides well-thought through navigation models and offers access to functionality where it is relevant. In GT5... well... let's just say the went out of their way to break your gaming flow everywhere and to make you see the waiting screen as often as possible.

 

[tribolik]

Hmm... I see You did a secret poll(careful with unsubstantiated statements and passing them as facts...I heard it is not very AUP friendly)!
But if it makes You feel more comfortable I'll give You that...I think for my own head and do not need others compliance to be certain of how I feel about a video game!👍

You choose a video that has all assists on (probably filmed before this patch) to proove your point? looks like you want to be right at all costs.

Yesterday I was cooking my meal and it didnt turn out great guess what IT IS STILL FOOD ANYWAY... and so is a Sim, good or bad its a Sim and IMO is quite good...But I can understand that if you play with a pad/ assist on and through your car around at hight speeds they will slide.

Yes I quoted Andy Tudor because you were the one wanting to know what was «underneath the hood» of the game... if you think Andy Tudor is a Lyer thats your problem... the game is not perfect but it was desgined to be a Sim and Fun... Im begginng to think that your problem is more «there are no Sims on a console» Syndrome
If I stated that you are amongst the minoraty it was not because I started a poll but because I read what other people right here and in other forums about the game and your one of the few that keeps calling this game arcade...

The game producer states that they made a Sim, its being sold as a Sim... its not a 100% hardcore Sim but it fits the category... And you say they failled miserably and it turned out Arcade... Well I got news for you from the replys alone of people answering to you and trying to proove you wrong and from the ones not answering to me you can tell how the majority stands.

And nest time please try and me more fair and show a video on elite mode not being driven by a moron....

PS: if I disrespect the AUP Im sure a Moderator will put me in my place as it happened before.. not you.

 

[Firehuntah]

And they spent excessive amounts of time on those models just for those who like to do fake-car photography. On the track you never see all those details. Just like the horns and museum cards: a big waste of resources.

Depends what view you use, if you use cockpit view you do see it all. Might be a waste of resources to you but there are also people who actually like these extra things added in the game and I'm one of them. It's not like it's taken them much time to put in some horns and cards anyway.

6 months in man-hours per car? Fire your 3D modelers and get some proper 3D designers instead.

You ever tried modeling a car? I've tried it myself in Autodesk Maya and I can easily see why it takes them 6 months to get every detail on the car exactly right.

If you think UI design is just about colors and graphics you're still living in the 80s. A proper UI design lets you get everywhere quickly, provides well-thought through navigation models and offers access to functionality where it is relevant. In GT5... well... let's just say the went out of their way to break your gaming flow everywhere and to make you see the waiting screen as often as possible.

The long loading screens are a bit annoying yeah, but they're there on Shift 2 as well before races, it's just that there's some things on the screen to read/look at except just a loading bar. But I don't really see any other problem in GT5's UI.

 

[brambos]

But I don't really see any other problem in GT5's UI.

Let me give you just one example (out of many dozens):

Go to the "tuning shop" and buy some parts. Count the number of dialogs and popups you have to click through. Was any of them really necessary? No. None of them. Why would I want to know that the installation of my turbo was successful? How could it even go wrong?

Here is an insightful article from Arstechnica using GT5 as the textbook example of horrendous UI design:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...-gran-turismo-5-the-power-of-menus-and-ui.ars

 

[vrooom]

It also seems that GT5 is over simplified as a game, complex physics are fine and no patches have been needed, but the game itself was sub par and needed fixing.

Shift and others are fine in the game bit, its the physics and complex bits that needed fixing.

I admit that GT5 has sometimes convincing physics, especially if you are not pushing your car to the limit (frankly I find that pushing the car to the limit is way to forgiving in GT5, with muted consequences for mistakes (riding the curbs, big jumps etc) thus making you reckless but that is another discussion).

But complex physics? In GT5? No way!
Where are tire temperatures for each zone (outer, middle, inner) of each tire? Customizable tire pressure? How can you set camber in GT5 without knowing tire temperature? Tire deformation? Tire simulation is non-existant in GT5 and thus GT5's physics are very simplistic and not on par with other realistic game/sims (like various PC titles and Shift 2 on all platforms).

And who even cares about the UI, isn't a racing game about driving a car? Couldn't care less if the menus were in pink or something as long as I can just select a car and a track easily.

You are absolutely right! It's a driving game and we want to just drive. Not sit and wait for the menus to load while listening to elevator jazz! The menus in GT5 are the worst menus in any game! In all other games browsing the menus doesn't require loading. In GT5 it does!

Want a quick race in GT5 without identical opponents? You must go back to the basic menu and go to arcade mode. Wait for the menus to load! Oh no, the car you wanted wasn't added to your favorites. Back to GT mode. Wait for the menus to load. You have already 100 favorites. Uncheck and check the car you want. Hey I don't like the car color. Go (wait to load) to GT Auto. Try to find the color you want (if you are lucky to have it), pick it (wait...), paint (wait for the silly animation...), it looks awful. Undo... what!!?? Can't undo... By now 10mins would have passed and you decide why should I even bother and you turn off the PS3 in disgust! Also if the menus in GT5 are so good, why can't we save setups for each car! Why can't we save between races? Oh, I know... wait for the future patch... yeah right... probably it will be something B-Spec related...

The long loading screens are a bit annoying yeah, but they're there on Shift 2 as well before races, it's just that there's some things on the screen to read/look at except just a loading bar. But I don't really see any other problem in GT5's UI.

They are not logical, you don't just have to press the back button - you must press back and confirm, there is a lot back and forth, and there are long loading times even between menus for crying out loud! Seriously you find the GT5 menus usable? Have you not played another game or used a computer before?

Bad interface can break a good program. All the little deficiencies and annoyances in an interface add-up and you end up with a slow, cumbersome interface that aggravates the user. I don't play games to be aggravated, I play them to have fun, GT5 menus don't let you have fun, are slow and get in the way!

 

[Firehuntah]

Let me give you just one example (out of many dozens):

Go to the "tuning shop" and buy some parts. Count the number of dialogs and popups you have to click through. Was any of them really necessary? No. None of them. Why would I want to know that the installation of my turbo was successful? How could it even go wrong?

Here is an insightful article from Arstechnica using GT5 as the textbook example of horrendous UI design:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...-gran-turismo-5-the-power-of-menus-and-ui.ars

Ok you're right there but unlike that article says it still isn't bad enough to make the game 'fail', at least not to me. But that's probably cause I don't really care about it. The driving part of the game just has to be good, that's the most important thing.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Ok you're right there but unlike that article says it still isn't bad enough to make the game 'fail', at least not to me. But that's probably cause I don't really care about it. The driving part of the game just has to be good, that's the most important thing.

Yeah if you love loading and love driving you will LOVE gt5.

 

[Luminis]

I meant the rule being that games are rushed out to meet the demand of the publishers.

Yeah, me too. I meant that exact rule. Because after a crapload of time spend on 'developing' GT5, Sony appearently demanded it to be finally released, resulting in a half finished game, stuffed with content of the predecessors to make it look more complete.

GT can't have been rushed throughout it's development, yes to the end of the cycle because it still wasn't finished, but they spent a long time making it. The bits that needed patching seemed to be to rectify poor decisions in the gameplay style such as PP, gearbox ratio's, seasonals etc. These seemed to add to the game rather than fix it.

They had a 'fully customizable gearbox' in the game and patchhed it to make the ratios adjustable - that isn't a rectifying a bad decision, that's finishing a game and overlooking stuff which needs to be fixed.

In shift 2, the patches are there to correct more fundamental problems with the game, such as the input systems (lag and floating) and hopefully one day the lock-ups. The gameplay structure and style are fairly sound.

I'll give you that, S2U needs patchign for other problems - mostly the floaty handling. For the other stuff, well, I've experienced more technical hicups and stuff with GT5 than with S2U, so that might depend on each persons respective exerience with both games.

Edit: I just want to add that this post release fixing is good if it is necessary, but it seems to me that it is being abused to shorten the development time and costs.

DLC is the same, great on principle, but paying for stuff that should already be in the game is not. Shift 2 DLC seems to buck the trend by adding quality content.

Exactly. I too think that developers have gotten very, very good tools to make great games and make them even better, but they're misusing them to create somewhat decent games and make them good afterwards...
As I said earlier, Blizzard Entertainment is one of the very few developers who are, in my opinion, doing it right.

You do know there's over 200 premium cars right? And they're the best car models in a game I've seen so far. This is where they spent the most time on

Yeah, and that was a brilliant move... Not. Seriously, it's fine if they want to create 3D models of cars. That's cool and all. But for a game company, making a game should come first. That's why the game failed, to me at least.

Makes me sad to see so many people bashing or put aside GT5. Shift 2 definately is a great game but in my opinion it doesn't even come close to beating GT5 in terms of physics and FFB for wheel users.

That's pretty much the thing: They put those uber-detailed car models into what is widely perceived as a very good physics engiine (that still doesn't come close to a few certain PC sims, I might add) and that's it.

And who even cares about the UI, isn't a racing game about driving a car? Couldn't care less if the menus were in pink or something as long as I can just select a car and a track easily.

A racing game is about racing. Driving a car is what you do in GT5, racing a car is what you do in S2U. Superficially, it might look like the same thing, but the feeling you get from those two is (or should) be pretty different. I think tthat's why both games appeal to different kinds of players.

You ever tried modeling a car? I've tried it myself in Autodesk Maya and I can easily see why it takes them 6 months to get every detail on the car exactly right.

And other developers can get 85% of the results PD got in 30% of the time... Bad time management is bad, period.

The long loading screens are a bit annoying yeah, but they're there on Shift 2 as well before races, it's just that there's some things on the screen to read/look at except just a loading bar. But I don't really see any other problem in GT5's UI.

Meh, don't get me started on the UI, seriously. If you need to go through two dozens of dialogues to buy a car, apply upgrade, tune it and add it to your favourites, than there's something inherently wrong with the UI. I can do the very same thing in S2U or Forza 3 in roughly a third of the time.

 

[jbuzza]

And nest time please try and me more fair and show a video on elite mode not being driven by a moron....

👍 lol my thoughts too

 

[jbuzza]

I like GT5 but the UI is indeed diabolical

 

[AWDwhite_2g]

So...... Patch v1.02,



Game has yet to freeze on me. Even with fast cars and the Ring and Mt. P.

My PS3 slim is only a few months old, maybe its just coping with the game better then older systems.

One thing I would like to see addressed in the next patch is how the Clutch is rendered during gameplay. It be nice to get locked out of gear if im to quick with the clutch pedal and not fast enough with the gear lever.

The Porsche RSR is good fun around the Ring with some slight suspension tweaks. Wheel and FFB feels extremely good, not to mention the RSR makes a mean noise.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I really don't get how people can say this game gets closer to being a sim than GT5. Ever since I started this game I've pretty much been going full throttle out of corners, even in 600hp+ rwd cars, without any oversteer or the wheels spinning. And when it does happen, when I hit a curb or something, you don't even really feel it through the wheel's FFB. And then there's still some input lag, even after patch 1.02. You can also drive through grass at full speeds without any problem whatsoever

I'm quite confused by some of your comments here.

I bought a FC RX-7 last night and engine swapped it and added some upgrades, making it class C. It was able to oversteer pretty easily, in fact, I had to be careful not to spin out at launch when the race started. Even without the engine swap and in class D, it was able to oversteer. And this all happened with stock tires, btw.

Also, when I did the Toyota Supra hot lap in the Retro events, I definitely noticed that it began to spin.

No lag with me. Cars drive just fine. I'm using DFGT and PS3.

And about your grass comment, I remember one time last night I got two wheels off the road, and a car ahead of me sped away, so my car definitely slowed down. So if that happened to me, I don't know how you can get away with driving full speed through the grass.

 

[Firehuntah]

I'm quite confused by some of your comments here.

I bought a FC RX-7 last night and engine swapped it and added some upgrades, making it class C. It was able to oversteer pretty easily, in fact, I had to be careful not to spin out at launch when the race started. Even without the engine swap and in class D, it was able to oversteer. And this all happened with stock tires, btw.

Also, when I did the Toyota Supra hot lap in the Retro events, I definitely noticed that it began to spin.

No lag with me. Cars drive just fine. I'm using DFGT and PS3.

And about your grass comment, I remember one time last night I got two wheels off the road, and a car ahead of me sped away, so my car definitely slowed down. So if that happened to me, I don't know how you can get away with driving full speed through the grass.

Haven't driven that Mazda yet, but I did drive that Supra. Didn't have a problem controlling it, didn't really get it to slide. All aids off except ABS (since I'm used to having it on from GT5, haven't tried with it off yet), DFGT and PS3 as well. I did finally get some oversteer yesterday though, works converted Audi R8. All that thing seems to do is oversteer which I find weird since it's supposed to be a very stable car, especially with the downforce it gets. Don't really notice that it's an AWD when driving it. Then again, I didn't really tune it yet, probably has some messed up settings as standard. And it has 1032HP, might have something to do with it.

As for input lag, it's very small but it's definately there. Easy to spot from cockpit view.

And about the grass, what I actually meant is that you can just drive through it at fast speeds and still turn your car anywhere you want. It has too much grip.

 

[bmwisme]

We shouldn't turn this thread into a my racing sim of "choice" is better than your sim of "choice". My favorite color is red btw. I sum it up as:

GT5 is a "driving" sim.
S2U is a "racing" sim.
BOTH in the same general category - motosport "sims"
Both have there own problems and strengths
I bought both and will keep both - one doesn't replace the other.

As far as the 1.02 patch there isn't a question that the programmers should be given some credit in "improving" the S2U experience. I don't have to dwell on what isn't perfect yet - but that's me.
For the first time since the 1.02 patch, I used the DS3 instead of my DFGT to get see what the controller users are experiencing. To me it is very clear the racing experience is much improved. On S2U release I had a hell of the time controlling/racing anything. Cannot match my wheel times and loose the sim racing feel but still a load of racing fun.

 

[RomKnight]

So...... Patch v1.02,



Game has yet to freeze on me. Even with fast cars and the Ring and Mt. P.

My PS3 slim is only a few months old, maybe its just coping with the game better then older systems.
(...)
The Porsche RSR is good fun around the Ring with some slight suspension tweaks. Wheel and FFB feels extremely good, not to mention the RSR makes a mean noise.

My Fat PS3 resents that comment

And YES, RSR rules 👍

I'm glitch free since v1.02

 

[paulpg87]

After the 1.02 it froze in the autolog.. and it's not even connected cause i'm on ps3. I enteredit to see my badges and froze.

 

[tribolik]

We shouldn't turn this thread into a my racing sim of "choice" is better than your sim of "choice". My favorite color is red btw. I sum it up as:

GT5 is a "driving" sim.
S2U is a "racing" sim.
BOTH in the same general category - motosport "sims"
Both have there own problems and strengths
I bought both and will keep both - one doesn't replace the other.

As far as the 1.02 patch there isn't a question that the programmers should be given some credit in "improving" the S2U experience. I don't have to dwell on what isn't perfect yet - but that's me.
For the first time since the 1.02 patch, I used the DS3 instead of my DFGT to get see what the controller users are experiencing. To me it is very clear the racing experience is much improved. On S2U release I had a hell of the time controlling/racing anything. Cannot match my wheel times and loose the sim racing feel but still a load of racing fun.

Thank you very much, my thoughts exactly... their both Sims (good or bad) and both have their strenghs and weekness and one suits some better as does the other... they are a lot different but that doesnt mean one is a Sim and the other isnt...

As for patch 1.02 on PC (possible 1.03 on consoles) I ve been reading the No Grip forums and they (SMS) are thinking of adding an extra lvl for AI (harder), make a few tweeks on the livery editor, improve the graphics for high end PCs and a few other things, but I doubt it will make it into the consoles... But I really have to aprecciate the way they are engaging with the PC community listening and doing stuff that EA didnt ask for or payed...

 

[GumShoe]

^ SMS really deserve a lot of respect for their honest and involved communication with us anonymous forum peoples; their input here and at nogrip highlights especially how useless EA are at dealing with the community and how hamstrung the devs are with doing what they would really like to, but at the end of the day EA provide the funding and allow SMS to push things the way they have...

BTW, Shift 2 can be a 'driving simulator' too, you just have to drive under the limits

 

[iLex]

Can someone please post a video of this 'lag' they're still getting after the patch? Include your wheel turning in front of the screen and the on-screen wheel also to show the difference. With telemetry too if necessary to show the delay. It just doesn't add up that some say they're still seeing lag to such an extent after the patch. If it's fixed for some it should be fixed for all.

Plus are you sure it's not just the reaction time of the car with tyre flex/suspension reaction etc (you know, a bit of realism. I know if I try to steer left and right relatively quickly in my RL car it certainly doesn't react instantly...)? Is this happening with the GT1 cars?

PS3 fat or slim? TV size & age?

If the devs are reading these things will help...

It's still here. I am beginning to suspect that there is some wishfull thinking going on with the people claiming to have no lag.

Fat PS3 with DFGT and my TV has nothing to do with it as no other game has this kind of lag.

 

[vrooom]

As for patch 1.02 on PC (possible 1.03 on consoles) I ve been reading the No Grip forums and they (SMS) are thinking of adding an extra lvl for AI (harder), make a few tweeks on the livery editor, improve the graphics for high end PCs and a few other things, but I doubt it will make it into the consoles... But I really have to aprecciate the way they are engaging with the PC community listening and doing stuff that EA didnt ask for or payed...

If they develop features like that they will be added to all consoles.
I am sure their development methods make cross-platform development easy and since the bulk of the sales in on consoles they will want to keep console users happy. Also virtualr.net suggests that after patch 1.03, DLCs will be available for PC! This will keep PC players happy too! 👍

I am also expecting for a free future patch to add extra driver levels with extra bonuses (like number vinyls). The message about the 'currently allowed driver level suggests that....
Am I expecting too much?