Should psychics be banned?

Touring Mars

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It is my opinion that psychics, and particularly faith healers, should be banned. If this goes too far, then I propose that they should be subjected to some form of licensing, which places upon them a minimum burden of proof, or at the very least, real evidence to substantiate their bogus claims, qualifications and especially previous track record.

After watching with incredulity a documentary on the BBC last night about the self-styled 'psychic healer' Robyn Welch (http://www.robynwelch.com), my patience with these quacks finally snapped. She charges £150 per 8 minute session, sessions that she conducts over the phone... (http://news.scotsman.com/features.cfm?id=1979262005) She claims to be able to heal every sort of physical ailment merely by 'looking inside a person's body' and then 'zapping' the affected area. She claims to have a 90% success rate. But when questioned about what records she keeps to substantiate this claim, she suddenly goes all coy on us. Asked about how she knows people have been cured at all, she merely replied "I'd know". One cancer patient (who was, in reality, close to death and desperate), was paying her sums of over $2000 for blocks of treatment, which involved her advising the man to refrain from using pain relief. He did, of course, die some time later.

Many people argue that psychics and in particular faith healers do serve a purpose by giving people hope where there was none before. But to that I'd say this... why do you need to pay someone for it? Surely you'd get the same comfort/hope by simply visiting a church or through prayer? My point being, that these charlatans who do nothing more than sell the sound of their voices, in reality do not do anything to help anyone, except lighten the load of their wallets. They sell no tangible product, and in many many cases (especially those that involve the most desperate and most vunerable), the lasting impact of their irresponsible actions is to cause more grief and much anger to the relatives of those who have been duped.

Of course, Ms. Welch is not the only one who does this sort of thing (despite her claim to be unique), although she is an example of the 'worst-case scenario'. Other forms of psychics are less intrusive and damaging, but at the same time, are no less fraudulent. John Edward (host of TV series 'Crossing Over') is a prime example. He has built a lucrative career around being able to communicate with the dead, and can even do so on 'live TV'* (infront of a live studio audience, but not broadcast live, of course...) But although he cannot be accused of grossly negligent activities like advising sick people to disregard legitimate treatment in favour of a 'psychic' remedy, he is still guilty of preying on the sick and vunerable. I don't know about you, but the last time you spoke to a loved one who has since passed away, is a pretty cherished memory...? Of course it is.... so why pay John Edwards $300 for him to make something up and leave you believing that it came from the lips of your dearly departed?? I could go on all day about Edward, but I'll leave that for the discussion....

Anyway, do psychics deserve to remain unchallenged and unregulated, allowed to charge whatever they want to say whatever they want, even if it means great distress and even suffering being inflicted on those they target? Or should they be brought to book, forced to provide a certain level of proof before they are allowed to operate under license, or should they be banned altogether?
 
If they are banned that shows you dont have free speech. To be able to call yourself a self styled phychic shows that you live in a democracy. If people are dumb enough to be fooled and pay those amounts then be so. Its no different from the church were things are preached without proof or evidence but still take your money every sunday.
 
I just say bring the old tar and feathers back! Or better, asbestos and feathers ... these people can heal themselves of cancer anyway, right?

They should be sued when they keep people out of regular medicine. I think that is possible in the Netherlands now. But other than that, you can't stop people from squandering their money. You can just help them not to. And expose these quacks as best you can.
 
Young_Warrior
If they are banned that shows you dont have free speech. To be able to call yourself a self styled phychic shows that you live in a democracy. If people are dumb enough to be fooled and pay those amounts then be so. Its no different from the church were things are preached without proof or evidence but still take your money every sunday.

I was just about to say the same - A fool and their money are soon parted
 
I agree with these comments, but I think something more needs to be done.

The 'Free Speech' argument is a controversial one. Advertisers are not having their human rights taken from them by the Advertising Standards Authority just because they are not allowed to say any old nonsense about their products. If Tefal make a new gizmo for the kitchen that can slice bacon, bake bread and make a cracking milkshake simultaneously, they are allowed to say so on their advert. They are not allowed, however, to attempt to imbelish the product by also claiming that it can "cure your asthma too"* That is not a question of allowing or disallowing free speech. It's a question of having certain standards of what you can rightly expect for your money.

Also, a fool and his money will always be parted... this is true. But it isn't like something cannot be done about these people. Aside from the immorality of defrauding the sick and the vunerable, I think we should adopt a common-sense approach of atleast forcing so-called 'healers' to prove that their 'product' works, or even exists at all.

For me, the only reason they get away with it is because they hide behind the front that faith is not up for question. But really, it is the faith of the sick that is being exploited. The faith of the healer is totally irrelevant and they know it.
 
Yes that makes sense too and when your dieing you will try anything as your desperate. Im sure that even if there were great big warning signs or some kind of warning like they have on cigarrette packets peoiple would still go to them as theyre desperate.
 
I think 'psychics' only work if their 'customer' actually believes in psychics, gives them that reasurrance in their head 'yeah ok this psychic is gonna heal me' instead. If they don't fully believe in psychics then it would 'fail'.

Its just playing tricks in your mind i think. You can't banthem as such but it could be considered fraud.
 
What about the people you tell your dreams to and they interpret them. I told a woman once about a dream in which a flame/fireball thingy kept following me around and brning everyhting and I couldnt get away from it or put it out in water and it would burn everyhting I loved. She then interpreted it so that it made sense with my real life situation. All the bad things I didnt in life she told me to stop yet I never oncetold her what illegal activities I get up to.
 
Young_Warrior
What about the people you tell your dreams to and they interpret them. I told a woman once about a dream in which a flame/fireball thingy kept following me around and brning everyhting and I couldnt get away from it or put it out in water and it would burn everyhting I loved. She then interpreted it so that it made sense with my real life situation. All the bad things I didnt in life she told me to stop yet I never oncetold her what illegal activities I get up to.

Its not being psychic there, its just advanced psychology, I should know..
 
Young_Warrior
If they are banned that shows you dont have free speech. To be able to call yourself a self styled phychic shows that you live in a democracy. If people are dumb enough to be fooled and pay those amounts then be so. Its no different from the church were things are preached without proof or evidence but still take your money every sunday.
I don't see it as a free speech issue so much as a fraud issue. They must have the burden of proof on them to show that they really can do what they say they can do. They slide out of this with the you must have faith for it to work trick. It is much like the old snake handler churches where if you get bit it means you lost your faith.

Comparing this to giving an offering/donation at church is a poor comparison. I can go to church every single time the doors open without paying a penny if I choose. I get the full benefits of the church without the burden of having to pay for them. If God was suddenly proven to not exist it would not be fraud as I volunteered to give or not give my money and how much I gave. And while I don't know about other churches the budget of my church is voted on by all members every year with open debate for any spending increases/decreases. The budget is then handled throughout the year by a budget committee who's members rotate every month. There is very little room for fraud or theft.

I go to asmall country church and I know others are different, but I enjoy my church because I enjoy the very democratic way of handling things and not having a select few tell me how everything will be run.

In contrast, no faith healer or psychic will volunteer their services with an option of a donation.
 
Young_Warrior
Explain further.


Well I take Psychology and the one thing my teacher said at the start of the first lesson was, never think people who you talk about your dreams to are psychics, they are just psychologists trying to get a bit extra money.

Honestly dude, you can believe what you want but its just diagnosis and luck.
 
Bee
Well I take Psychology and the one thing my teacher said at the start of the first lesson was, never think people who you talk about your dreams to are psychics, they are just psychologists trying to get a bit extra money.

Honestly dude, you can believe what you want but its just diagnosis and luck.


Yeah but this was done over the internet so she didnt know where I was from or how I dressed to maybe work on a stereo type.

Her translation of my dream was very detailed in the way it fit in with my life.How the hell she knew from a fireball that I was connected to some very heavy shiznit is absolutely unreal.
 
FoolKiller
I don't see it as a free speech issue so much as a fraud issue. They must have the burden of proof on them to show that they really can do what they say they can do. They slide out of this with the you must have faith for it to work trick. .

My thoughts exactly...

Young_Warrior
Foolkiller what about the faith/black magic healers from africa who do it for free for their village.

They are just as bad if you ask me... they most likely don't do it for free anyway, but even if they do, you can be sure that they get paid in other ways... living rent free, special privileges, other 'favours' and local respect/power.... Indian 'fakirs' operate on this basis, and they are all crooked in one way or another.

Young_Warrior
What about the people you tell your dreams to and they interpret them. I told a woman once about a dream in which a flame/fireball thingy kept following me around and brning everyhting and I couldnt get away from it or put it out in water and it would burn everyhting I loved. She then interpreted it so that it made sense with my real life situation. All the bad things I didnt in life she told me to stop yet I never oncetold her what illegal activities I get up to.

Did the psychic actually tell you anything you didn't know already? You told them what you dreamt, and then after speaking to the psychic, it made sense to your actual life. But in order to do that, you must have spoken about events in your life. I bet you didn't just sit there silently and allow the psychic to make the connections between the dream and your real life?
 
FoolKiller
Comparing this to giving an offering/donation at church is a poor comparison

Nevertheless, the line is blurry to say the least. Witness the parts of the Bible in which Jezus is the big magical Healer curing anything he touches. Being a good Christian and contributing to the Church are and have not often been completely unrelated, to word it carefully. And that, in turn, has so far influenced legislation, or rather, the lack of it.
 
Young_Warrior
Foolkiller what about the faith/black magic healers from africa who do it for free for their village.
If it is absolutely free in all ways then they are essentially a church/spiritual leader for their village. I would assume they are supporting themselves in some other way such as farming and hunting or providing another service for money.

If no form of payment is required then I don't consider it fraud because you have defrauded them of nothing.
 
Touring Mars
Did the psychic actually tell you anything you didn't know already? You told them what you dreamt, and then after speaking to the psychic, it made sense to your actual life. But in order to do that, you must have spoken about events in your life. I bet you didn't just sit there silently and allow the psychic to make the connections between the dream and your real life?

Well it was done over the internet and she basically told me to stop cheating on my GF even though I never told her I even had one and she also said that my friends although we are close now in a given situation they will try and get me to take the fall to save themselves.
 
What was the format, a chat forum, a discussion, or just a one-off 'report' like thing? In other words, what opportunity for feedback did you have?
 
Arwin
Nevertheless, the line is blurry to say the least. Witness the parts of the Bible in which Jezus is the big magical Healer curing anything he touches. Being a good Christian and contributing to the Church are and have not often been completely unrelated, to word it carefully. And that, in turn, has so far influenced legislation, or rather, the lack of it.
But since we are talking about legality issues and not what the Bible says Jesus asks us to do then it is not an issue of fraud because you are not charged a cover charge at the door, nor are you kicked out if you don't add to the offering plate. You are not charged for services. You donate voluntarily for those services. It works the same as any non-profit organization, except those are tax deductible in the US.

I am not sure what legislation you are thinking has been avoided other than taking away a church's tax exempt staus because it is a religious organization. All that would do is allow them to become a non-profit organization and my tithing will suddenly be tax deductible. That is avoided because legislators know it will appear as attacking a church and will end their careers and if my tithing is tax deductible then it comes dangeroulsy close to looking as if the government is rewarding me for religious contributions.

If you mean other legislation then please explain, but no church tithe is the same as forcing me to pay. The worst accusation you can say is that the church guilt trips me into giving them money. That is no more illegal than my guilt tripping a friend into buying me a beer because I saved his life one day. You can call it unethical but never illegal or fraud, as they are defined today.
 
Young_Warrior
Well it was done over the internet and she basically told me to stop cheating on my GF even though I never told her I even had one and she also said that my friends although we are close now in a given situation they will try and get me to take the fall to save themselves.

Oh yeah, we are meant to beleive that arent we...

Psychics are such BS, it is so easy to make a connection with a dream to your life, normally because a bad dream relates to your life in some way so duh, of course it relates to your life....wow, does that make me a psychic?

I dreamed i fell off a cliff but never hit the ground, which was frustrating, and what do you know, my life is pretty dam frustrating.

anyone can do it, psychics are just lame. They can never be banned because there are so many idiots who beleive in it.
 
And its not like you never spoken to her before and/or know her in some way for her to know about it, because even face to face she wouldnt be able to do that, let alone on the internet, seriously, ive never heard so much bull**** in my life.
 
Young Warrior, look its not a psychic, its a psychiatrist on a good day. I really don't believe its possible to be psychic, its all staged on TV and if someone points out somin and it takes place its bout 97% luck, 3% being staged once again.

'Psychics' are just their for your money and to give you a new sense of belief, although they are just playing you as a sucker.
 
Eh I never said I belived in it I think ist all luck of the draw and that people are just getting conned. All im saying is that look at how someone managed to get such an uncanny guess of my life so imagine a desperate person. I correct reading and that person will be hooked.

In no way to I believe all this mumbo jumbo.

Its not like I had a physic reading gt fan she just interpreted a dream so in a way its possible to get some right as you may or may not know pyschologists often asks about peoples dreams.
 
Famine
Physics should be banned. It's so bloody confusing.

:lol:

Psychics are frauds. If they new anything about the future, why don't they go to Las Vegas and win at every game? Why don't they predict the lottery? Or a horse Race? Why didn't they predict the Tsunami, 9/11 or any other major insident in the world. Psychics are garbage. Dream interpreting isn't a psychic act. Dream interpreting is talked about in the bible, but it's always as a warning or prophesy. They didn't have dreams that said, "play 6,4,5 in the pick three and win!"

Anyway, bleh. I don't care if they're banned because if people are dumb enough to believe in it then they deserve to have their cash taken away.
 
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