Should we continue having a top 10? VOTE!!!

[Beerz]

Hey, guys.

It's me. Good ol' Beerz.

You might know me from such threads as 'Beerzy's Shot Bar' and 'I Didn't Do It'.

Tonight (GMT here) I'm here to speak to you about something very important.

Well, not really, but it might be.

Seeing as there's a sort of 'revolution' about the top 10 picked on the polls (see posts on unedited week12), I'm making this thread for everyone to vote on whether or not should we continue to have someone picking a top 10 for the comps.

As it's a bit complex to put a poll for this thing with every possible option (seeing the number of competitions and the different people running them), I'll just put the main options.

The rest can be discussed on this thread.

Let me remind you that many comps have not reached 10 entrants lately, and the ones that do, are very seldom above 13 or 15, if that.

So, this is to ask you guys if you'd like to continue having a top 10 picked by anyone or if everyone should be on the polls.

Thanks you, I'll be here all week.


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[Moglet]

I say we get rid of the Top 10 altogether.

And make it a top 5!
But yeah I don't think we need it any more, unless a contest runs to over 15 or so entries. If it's 11 or 12 then I see no problem with letting everyone into the polls. The entries that wouldn't have made it in a selection of 10 will probably not get any votes anyway to be fair so it won't make that much difference.

 

[Arathorn]

This was unnecesary, Beerz. Or is it some that many people thought and nobody wanted to say??

I don't want to rewrite the rules, if someone do a top ten competition, it's in his right, and if I want to enter a pic I have to agree the rules.

PD: soon the rest of my answer to this, I don't know how to say all I want in english and I wanna think it well...

 

[NTX]

Well...I think we can get rid of the top ten...but if some competitions hosts wanna leave the competitions with the top ten, we should respect that decision:tup:

 

[Nicknamealguem]

Well, in my humble opinion I think that there shouldn’t be anyone picking a top 10, of the pictures submitted on a competition. This would end discussions in the polls, has we assisted one in the recent day. I am from the opinion, also, that this should be implemented in all competitions. One person should not choose the top ten, mainly because what art to someone, it is not necessarily be art to another one. We can see this, has not the same picture has all the votes. In this way, the person who chose the theme in a competition can also enter the competition.

 

[tapetape]

It should be up to the competition host, but it would be nice for it to be stated in the rules.

Also a bit off topic. It would be nice to see the Image artists name under their picture in the polls as not all of the artists put thier names on them. Just make it a little easier to know whos image it was if you want to comment on why you chose your vote

 

[mouser]

com·pe·ti·tion - noun - A test of skill or ability; a contest

What's the point of testing one's skill or ability if EVERYONE gets in the poll?

I don't even see why this topic is up for discussion, the top 10 works fine. Sure some people would be left out but they can deal with it, I know I never used to be selected for the polls but I never complained, I just kept working and eventually I got in. I say leave the top 10 system in the current competitions and if someone wants to create a "fair" comp, let them, but don't bother changing the current rules.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I haven't been keeping track of the topic, but I'll share my opinion...

I'll be keeping the Top 10 idea in H2H and 2.0. Maybe it will be shrunken down to only 5 for each side in H2H, I'm not sure, since there's less people here than the mayhem a year or two ago (we would see 50+ entries some weeks!). My reasoning?

First off, the person who picks the theme is picking the Top 10 based on that theme. He/She has set a standard... they should be allowed to decide which pictures fit it best. Yes, art is subjective, I will never deny that, but I also don't agree with the idea that "everyone's a winner" . If anybody can get into the poll, it doesn't give as much incentive to try to do your best. Also, if there are no longer Top 10's, I'm assuming that means the person who came up with the week's theme can enter, can they not? The only reason they don't now is because of the decisions... that could raise more problems, because some of the very strong members currently winning at least have to sit out a week to give others a chance .

As for the name thing Tapetape brings up... there will always be two opinions on that too. One could argue some people get votes simply on their name recognition, which is why some polls are anonymous (usually the tournament qualifier, for example). But if people do want to know who did which shot, I'm sure the competition host could make a quick post after voting to show it .

I will admit there have been times in comps where there have been 11 entries and I've told the theme-chooser to not bother picking 10, but I really don't like the idea of just putting every single image into a poll. Call me a snob or an elitist or whatever, but I want the polls to display the best of the week.

 

[Brock5000]

We used to have a top 20 when there were enough entries...

Maybe some comps could allow the first 20 entries submitted into the poll, that might also encourage people to enter sooner.

Other comps might be better with a top 5, to really bring out the best.

I think it's up to the individual comp operators to determine what system they feel is best for their particular comp, no reason why they all have to follow the same format.

 

[Speedster502]

Also a bit off topic. It would be nice to see the Image artists name under their picture in the polls as not all of the artists put thier names on them. Just make it a little easier to know whos image it was if you want to comment on why you chose your vote

CCCL always does at the first post which is actually the order they are placed in the poll I think we still need the top 10, so I will be sticking to it.

 

[Muzaffar]

It should be up to the competition host, but it would be nice for it to be stated in the rules.

Also a bit off topic. It would be nice to see the Image artists name under their picture in the polls as not all of the artists put thier names on them. Just make it a little easier to know whos image it was if you want to comment on why you chose your vote

Well i would have to say on some competition because some comps just don't have enough entries. At some comps (especially the TT comp now) we actually had to post 2 photos each because we just don't have enough entries. But i think that the selection photos should be like it is. I mean its just hard luck that your photo didn't make it into the top ten, so you just have to try harder to enter the top ten. This is a good way to make improvements on your skills as an artist. Without competition there is just no improvements! and by having the top 10 making it, it makes everyone try harder just to make it! 👍

Well i still think having their names near their photo is a good suggestion rather than looking though on some random photos.(although now i can distinguish between each photos) but if some new guy just came in and his photo make it in, then how people know who it is? Doesn't matter really, voting at random people do always come up with surprises

 

[Moglet]

I reckon we should have a 'best of the best' contest where only 3 entries are picked to go to the polls each time. PMC rules, open theme every time with a half week run time. You do your best in a short time limit without using Photoshop and see if you can make it!

Actually that's probably not such a good idea now that I think about it...

 

[atlop]

About the Un-Edited comp, after reading this discussion I have decided to try a rule change in which the winner of previous week can decide the size of the poll. He/she can and must choose between (and including) 8 and 12 entries. The poll size will be announced with the theme. If there is not a full poll then the previous winner can also enter (as it always has been in all comps).

Using a poll with only 5 entries would not fit the Un-Edited comp IMO, since this comp still has many new members. But I also agree that an unlimited poll would take a lot away from the competitions. I believe letting the winner decide the poll size would add some intrest to the UEC, might work with other comps also.

I will also add to the rules what I mentioned earlier about the "three day rule", if I don't hear from the winner in that time after a deadline I step in and move the comp forward.

 

[Beerz]

Thank you very much for your contribution, atlop.

I also agree with your suggestion, it's well balanced.

Of course it would only apply to that specific comp. Like I said on the 1st post, there are several comps runned by different people, each with it's own specific rules.


SlipZ - Thanks for the input, you made a valid point there.
Only thing I'm not totally with you is when you say that if everyone gets in the poll, people won't try so hard. Because the ultimate goal is to win the comp. If anyone get in the poll and doesn't get any votes, that's not the aim for anyone to my believe.

I forgot to click the thing to show who's voting for which option, just noticed it. It's the 1st time I put a poll up, so sorry.

As for the knowing who made each shot, as speedy said, the easiest way is to have on the 1st post of the poll the names of the people on the same order the shots are shown.
Though I fail to see the relevance of that, since the target is to have each member vote on the shot that he believes is the best for that specific comp/theme, and not to be biased on who made the shot.

 

[mouser]

Beerz, you had a valid point in the other thread, and I apologize for blowing up like that. I just honestly don't see why this is up for debate; didn't this all start when someone was mad that they didn't get into the poll? Maybe atlop wasn't fair in selecting the top when he chose himself instead of a shot that was clearly one of the best in the comp (Arathorn), but I'm sure that's happened before, but people just got over it and looked towards next week's comp, so that's what we should do. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, yes, but all of this just seems unnecessary, since the top 10 has worked for so long.

 

[Beerz]

I see what you're saying there, I just created the thread so the debate would take place on a separate thread instead of one with a comp's poll being voted.
And so everyone could express their thoughts, which is only fair.

Together with the fact that many comps aren't even reaching 10 entries lately and others seldom have over 11 or 12, it made sense to have this debate to see what members think. 👍

 

[mouser]

I personally think that we should keep the top 10, but if there are 11 or 12 entries, throw those in the poll too.

 

[Arathorn]

Like I said before, I didn't want to change the rules. And if Atlop's pic is better than the others, it's normal he put in the poll.

I only wanted fairness choosing the shots, and the argument "it's a straight shot" is not valid, because in the 9th week a similar pic won... And mine is much artistic. I tried 6 times at least and the light just over the Peugeot logo and the air holes in the bonnet wasn't by luck. Here is the pic, for you don't have to search it.



And the fisrt time I related was in the 10 week I think, in the commentaries in the entering thread I was very happy because my pic caught the eye of people, and in the poll were other pics I consider lower, but I understood it.

BTW, all of you are saying "NO" in your replys and "YES" is winning... I voted "Only in some competitions"...

 

[alexwrc]

I think in 2.0 it doesn't matter if you're the 10th or you just don't make the poll, the winner will be chosen from the 5 bests or something.

But in other comps like the un-editted one, is more difficult to know, even impossible. The votes usually are more distributed.

I voted for the 3rd choice then.

Salu2.alexwrc

 

[Beerz]

Thanks for your contribution, alex. 👍

Arathorn is right, it would help to state on which option you voted for.
It's my fault because I forgot to enable the option to show who voted for what...

 

[Willy Burns]

Being a new member I feel i don't have any real say. I'm still learning. I do appreciate the opportunity to vote. Thanx.

 

[HUNGWELL]

I too am new, and am just learning the system.I'm not complaining, but feel all photos should be judged on thier own merit. A top ten system is fine with a large number of entries, and may also be neccesary at times. Thanks for letting me voice my opinion.... this is a community I've been wanting to join for years now. I can see both sides.