Simulation Steering
- Thread starter PzR Slim
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It's clearly a 1:1 steering mode for the controller, should give pad users a more 'direct-feel' over FM3 where it limits lock and filters the input to make it all manageable..
Shame he was a girl and left Traction ON, the amount it came on in that Ferrari, he'd have swapped ends ten times more if he'd been a bit braver.. The first sign of the tyre physics being much looser then FM3..
Pendulation and inertial rotation seem markedly better then FM3 too..
I always find looking at gameplay makes all games physics look a bit dumbed down, and that didn't look perfect by a long shot, but it does seem to have the signs of actually being a big departure from FM3, I'd like to hear from Inside Sim Racing on their impressions, just because they do at least play all the different sims etc..
Shame he was a girl and left Traction ON, the amount it came on in that Ferrari, he'd have swapped ends ten times more if he'd been a bit braver.. The first sign of the tyre physics being much looser then FM3..
Pendulation and inertial rotation seem markedly better then FM3 too..
I always find looking at gameplay makes all games physics look a bit dumbed down, and that didn't look perfect by a long shot, but it does seem to have the signs of actually being a big departure from FM3, I'd like to hear from Inside Sim Racing on their impressions, just because they do at least play all the different sims etc..
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
Hard to tell with tiny inputs from the pad.
Traction control on.
Rewind can be turned off, yay to all who hate rewind.
Traction control on.
Rewind can be turned off, yay to all who hate rewind.
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- Duisburg
Well, I think it's not as much about the options themselves as it is about what game they appear in.
Then again, considering that GTPlanet is primarily about GT, there aren't that many fanboys around here and most people are rather level headed. 👍
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Now THAT is funny
Oh, believe me, I know places where you wouldn't even dare to mention Forza with a single word, as opposed to GTPlanet which even has its own Forza sub-forum
I don't think that's simulation steering. Look at the way the car turns around itself and pivots in the centre, how he beats the AI sliding around the corners, how the rear wheels smoke up and drift every time he turns the car. The implication of calling it that would be that - somehow - if the car doesn't do that normally from that input, that the steering is artificially managed somewhere else and is nowhere near 1:1.
- 713
- UK
You are talking about the physics as a whole, the simulation steering setting is clearly just a setting that means unfiltered, no speed sensitivity, no other 'oddities' thrown in between the input and the physics engine, and I assume it does that..
The AI was on easy, it was clearly in driving miss daisy mode, he could have overtaken them on rollerskates..
I do however agree that just watching the external view of the car (and this seems to apply with all sim-esque console games), the physics in general do look a little awkward, but of course, visually in chase cam, all games look like they largely pivot around the center of the car, but there is loads of times it's clear from the cockpit cam that it doesn't just pivot around centre, so as with all these games, I'll reserve judgement, the intertial physics and grip looked very different to FM3, much looser etc, so it might be a pretty decent stab at sim physics. I'd love if we got some feedback from people with more sim experience...
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- 713
- UK
The 'simulation' setting is just for the steering input, i.e. 1:1 into the physics engine, it's not a physics engine overall setting, probably in response to the steering assist debacle of FM3.
I'd just wait for some proper feedback from experienced sim drivers if they get a go..
[edit] In chase-cam, visually it does look very pivotal, but I see lots of 4 wheel drifting and understeer that certainly don't fit an arcade pivot model, plus it looks much more as I'd expect when he pendulates in bumper cam/cockpit.
I absolutely hate chase-cam when they rotate the car far more then the track, it just looks really odd, as per that video, I much prefer when they keep the car relatively pointed forward far more, and rotate the track around it for a much more natural look..
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But look on this video with a wheel:
Even in this brief video he can't keep in front of the car to keep up with the arcade handling. It's like it's on jelly tyres or something the way it slides around as soon as he does any cornering. Even in a mostly straight section for one and a half minutes, you see a few times where he steers and then the car mysteriously oscillates around the track from minor input. What is the alternate explanation - that this is somehow what unassisted steering on a higher quality tyre model would produce? Laughable.
Again it says this is "simulation" handling with most assists off - I think it's definitely got to be some mistake in the e3 build menu system. Because everyone knows you would never see that kind of thing in a Real Sim. Everyone knows that real cars either understeer all the time, or understeer slightly less than all of the time.
But it's still the same physics - look at how he can get all 4 tyres laying down rubber and then have the car swing back into minimal slip without even really countersteering out of it much. That's got to be some kind of arcade mode, because everyone knows that Real Sims spin the car 180 degrees once you go over peak slip on more than 1 tyre, once you get done with however much understeer they put on the car.
(I promise I'll stop now
)
Wow! The sense of speed in FM4 is certainly tremendous! I hope they add some visual effects to crashing before release. Some shaking around the cockpit on impact and some concussion like blur ala shift style. I found that really adds to immersion and makes you try super hard to avoid bumping and tapping others too hard.
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I can't agree just yet, I see too many things going on in the videos that leave many questions I'd need answering (or a go on the demo) before making any real conclusion.
I agree that the video's look weird, lots of odd stuff going on, but when you see how they are putting large steering movements in (I assume as per FM3, it defaults to 270 degrees steering), I see in the first video he is locking the brakes quite often etc, so when it comes to assertively saying how the tyres are behaving coming in/out of slip, It's all too random for me..
If you are right, the game is doomed, because they only have 1 level of tyre physics, everything else is layered assists, this is how FM works..
It'll be good to see how this pans out, because something is niggling me a lot when watching the video's, I'm just not brave enough to stick my neck on the line until I get some solid proof as I've been burnt before..
Again it says this is "simulation" handling with most assists off - I think it's definitely got to be some mistake in the e3 build menu system. Because everyone knows you would never see that kind of thing in a Real Sim. Everyone knows that real cars either understeer all the time, or understeer slightly less than all of the time.
But it's still the same physics - look at how he can get all 4 tyres laying down rubber and then have the car swing back into minimal slip without even really countersteering out of it much. That's got to be some kind of arcade mode, because everyone knows that Real Sims spin the car 180 degrees once you go over peak slip on more than 1 tyre, once you get done with however much understeer they put on the car.
(I promise I'll stop now
Hope you doesn't include gt5 in "real sims" because that would be also laughable.
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I think everyone knows every situation is different. So many factors go into a situation that you could NEVER say precisely what "suppose" to happen every time. I'm just hoping FM4 gets closer and closer to what PC sims are doing and gets further and further away from these consoles. Best console racing , talking about pure racing now, not features, is Race Pro. Unfortunately for PS3 owners it only came out on the 360 so those of them who don't own both consoles missed out on a real sim right there. At least as close to the PC sim as you can get on a console.
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- Duisburg
Ever tried driving a car with a wheel that's not connected to anything? No? Well, dunno, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to drive a real car with Kinect steering, so I kinda would reserve judgment of what the physics can do until you've at the very least seen someone playing it with a real wheel, not some sort of casual Kinect control.
You know, I bet that even iRacing feels and looks like rubbish if you're trying to operate it with a keyboard and a mouse...
- 770
At first I was impressed. Especially when he lost it going over the crest due to over correction. About half way through the Video I noticed it was no different then FM3.
With any luck, that is ONLY because it's played with a pad instead of a wheel.
Oh, and just to remind everyone, the cockpit camera wheel showed 1:1 movement upto 180 degrees when playing on a wheel. Seems like they've just done that with a pad as well.
With any luck, that is ONLY because it's played with a pad instead of a wheel.
Oh, and just to remind everyone, the cockpit camera wheel showed 1:1 movement upto 180 degrees when playing on a wheel. Seems like they've just done that with a pad as well.
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It's always been like that. Tyre wear and damage has beenn lumped together in the options menu in FM3 as well.
- 2,414
Everyone is going to go nuts about the aids being present even though it was said earlier. Funny thing is how selective reading is going to keep people from reading the part about "very few" when using a wheel. I wonder how much people will notice. It's too bad you can't really compare FM3 to FM4 since they are using different tire data. That alone invalidates any direct comparisons to what the aids actually did for wheel users.
- 2,414
When? When Forza 3 was out the line was
I also like this:
Remove steering assists and improving the physics model results in boaty driving and tank slappers? Who knew?
Steering assists don't have anything to do with that since it's not like some cars didn't feel like a boat already. Hence the words "MORE boaty". Improving the physics and new tire data will give us more boaty feel on some cars than before.
I'm sorry if it was worded poorly (with the order reversed) but it seems they are fairly specific that
means that
which
and that, with use of
and selective use of
and better implementation of
the result is cars which
Hence
Remove steering assists and improving the physics model results in boaty driving and tank slappers? Who knew?
jabofu
I'm not sure that other than regulars of the Shift forum everyone quite knows how firmly my tongue is in my cheek with this stuff, but if you imagine someone miming a bj you would be able to judge it with high precision
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