Skatman John and the Realisation that we're not in Kansas Anymore

[Diego440]

About a half hour ago I was chatting with my wife, remembering old tunes we had heard when we were younger. After throwing around artisis like 2Unlimited, Technotronic, and similarly techno-ish babble, I was reminded of one called Skatman John. Be sure, if you're going to search for him, to type it with a K. I typed it with a C, and the results were nothing less of disgusting.

And because of that I started to notice how the warld has changed. We've become a world driven by three main factors: indecency, stupidity and disrespect.

Here's why:

• Gone are the days when kids said good morning, excuse me, or a simple hello. Now they'll push you, film it and post it on the internet.
• I remember when I was a kid, one day there was a huge pothole in front of my building... the sort that would completely destroy a car's wheel if it fell in. Back then, weput a sign warning about the hole, put some sort of long pole in it and attached an orange bag to it so people would see it and even called the muncipal offices so they'd fix it. Nowadays, people will just stand next to it, waiting for the next sorry ass to drop in it and laugh their asses off.
• Whenever someone slipped and fell down, the expected reaction was to help them up, ask if they were alright, and if not, do something about it. Now people just point and laugh. And it's up to older people to help the fallen.

Face it, society has changed for the worse. These days parents leave it to the teachers to teach values, teachers leave it to TV and TV leaves it to the parents. Kids are becoming increasingly violent, stupid and disrespectful.

I used to teach English, and back in the mid-90s, the most you had to deal with was one or two rebel students who would cause some sort of ruckus once a month. Today I hear stories from fellow teachers who are either looking for different sources of income thanks to the kids' behaviour or are just striving every day to not snap at the kids.

In recent days there was some sort of study done worldwide, but the results we saw in Spain were of course, the Spanish ones. The last generation of students is intellectually superior to the actual one. Meaning that the rule of every generation, where the following one is better educated has been abolished.

So, what's the solution for this? Discuss

 

[Wenders]

We seem to live in a society where no one wants to be responsible for their own actions. They are more focused on their rights and not their responsibilities.

Whenever someone slipped and fell down, the expected reaction was to help them up, ask if they were alright, and if not, do something about it. Now people just point and laugh. And it's up to older people to help the fallen.

The person falling over gets up and thinks of ways they can sue the council for negligence but doesn't think that it was up to them also to watch where they were going rather than talking on their mobile phone.

Face it, society has changed for the worse. These days parents leave it to the teachers to teach values, teachers leave it to TV and TV leaves it to the parents. Kids are becoming increasingly violent, stupid and disrespectful.

I think the problem all stems from societies 'do gooders' the ones who fought for 'our rights' (those 60's flower power kids who liked to protest about anything).Now I am not saying that people don't have rights but some of them are taken just a bit too far. Prisoners for one, if you commit a crime then you pay the price and lose your normal rights as a citizen of the world. They can have the basic rights of being fed, clothed, roof over their heads but to get all the mod cons that the rest of us have to work for to get is going a bit far.
Kids have rights too, the right to be loved, the right to feel safe etc. Now because of these 'do gooders' in the world we aren't allowed to discipline our children. Of course this came about because there were/are children out there that get abused and yes these kids do have the right to feel safe but the whole 'no discipline' thing has gone too far.
Kids need to know right from wrong and I don't care what anyone says, you can't sit down and explain to a 2 year old why they can't do a certain thing. They don't have the understanding and reasoning skills. A quick slap on the bum that doesn't even hurt through a nappy or a slap on the hand doesn't harm a child but they do learn pretty quickly that that if they do it again they will get the same punishment. As children get older and develop the understanding and reasoning skills the punishments should change. Time outs, removal of privilages, grounding. So long as the boundaries are set and they know the consequence of stepping out of them and most importantly they have to suffer the consequences then they learn. No point telling a child they'll suffer punishment if they do a certain thing and then they are allowed to get away with it. You give a kid an inch and they will take a mile.

I remember when Jack first went to preschool (aged 4) he did something wrong and I gave him a slap and made him sit in the corner. He turned round and said 'my teacher says you can't smack me'. Now this is where the next load of problems stem from. Teachers teach our children their rights, which is good to a certain degree. Sure it's fine to teach them they can't be bashed but if they are going to teach them that they should also be teaching them that they have to follow the rules at home.

I don't think that not being allowed to smack our children has done anything to prevent child abuse but it sure has created a generation of kids who run rings around their parents. The other day at work a 3-4 year old kid was running round uncontrollably, the parent did nothing, the child ran out the door and into the car park, it was another adult that prevented the child from being hit by a car. Now that sure as hell isn't keeping your child safe. Another instance where a young girl of 3, a regular visitor to our bank whose mum allowed her to do what she wanted, attempted to poke something in a power point, lucky for us the manager saw her and raced across the room to stop her. We now have child proof covers on all power points but the mother didn't batt an eyelid to the drama and didn't even tell her daughter it was wrong to do that.

I remember when I was growing up, I couldn't wait til I was an adult so I could start making decisions for myself, do things my way. My mother disciplined me a lot. As I got older I didn't think the punsihment fit the crime but I still had to take it because what mum said was the law in our house. My dad smacked me once when I was 4 (I did something naughty, he said he'd smack me, I said don't you dare so he did) I can't remember what I did only that if dad threatened to smack me with the blue thing with bristles (hair brush)after that then I behaved. I wasn't a beaten or battered child, I was just brought up with discipline and the knowledge that my parents were the boss in our household. I waited 20 years to be the boss of my household and when I had kids I sure as hell wasn't going to let them take over. I think I did a pretty good job with my kids, yes even Jack has turned out OK. They know right from wrong, they haven't been scarred by the few smacks they have had in their lives.

There will probably be a big turn around with next generations kids because their parents (kids of today) are so used to doing what they want, when they want there is no way they will let their children rule the roost.

At school we were taught the 3Rs - Reading, wRiting and aRithmatic they need to start teaching a new set - Respect, Responsibility and Rights (everyones rights not just the indivuduals)

 

[Diego440]

Wow, that was a great post. Thanks for that

I wasn't disciplined constantly, mostly because I learned to behave well. At age seven I learned that yelling to your parents is bad for your bum, so didn't do it again. At age eleven I discovered that grabbing a Playboy magazine from your dad's stash and showing it to everyone (including your grandparents) wasn't good either.

None of that is an excuse to say I was abused physically or mentally as a child. It's just part of growing up; part of the 'normal'childhood most people of my generation went through. And maybe the phrase 'growing up' is also part of that equation.

Nowadays people rarely leave their parent's homes before age 30 or so. People are getting married later and having kids later, and so on and so forth. It all becomes part of a vicious circle.

On the other hand, I believe this topic is a bit 'too mature' for many GTP members, who just come in here for a quick laugh, but it's just something that has been racking my brain recently and I had to vent it out somewhere.

 

[Pupik]

I think many kids and adults today have lost their sense of respect for one another; respect for feelings, respect for property, respect of the human condition, respect for responsibility. Perhaps this has been cultivated by a lack of trust with many people in power, whether in government, military, teachers, policemen, sports figures, heads of corporations, celebrities...a few bad apples spoil the entire crop for many people. Nothing these people say or do is good enough, because they're "probably doing something evil behind their backs". However, this distrust is largely because people tend to psychologically shadow and bury their own problems and faults by pointing out the failures and foibles of others, which in turn means a lack of general respect for others. To them, it's okay if we get a cheap laugh out of things; I see kids play around with the internet at my work all day to watch people beating each other up or watch montages of senseless destruction and loss of life on YouTube, which is something kids do, because they can; but to see adults do it, well, it can falsely generalize the vacuousness of a coming generation, that's what!

With this lack of trust, we turn to fear; fear can be normal, we can have it a bit of it which guides us away from stupidity. Fear prevents me from tailgating a car with no brake lights at 80 mph without a seatbelt on, or makes me cautious when repairing things involving electricity. But my fears do not have me...I don't worry about my neighbor, or the postman, or the five dark-skinned teenagers with baggy pants walking on the sidewalk along my house at 10pm at night. I'm not worried about terrorists, nuclear war, insurrection, ghosts, pedophiles, eternal damnation, or the collapse of Western Civilization. But to be constantly on edge of paranoia of these things is what puts excessive fear in them, such that people can't live their lives normally, to do what they want to do, to have and fulfill their dreams.

My wife and I were discussing early this morning whether teenagers can be left home alone anymore; I countered that 20 years ago, my family left my brother and I (then 12 and 13, respectively) alone in the house for 4 days. We knew our neighbors, so we'd say "hi" to them when we'd cross paths every day, and that was all the "babysitting" we needed. But we didn't hurt each other, damage or steal anything, didn't raid the unlocked liquor cabinet, or burn the house down. We were even allowed to have friends over, because our parents trusted us, and we didn't want to break their trust in our friends and us. Yes, we managed to bathe, clothe, and feed ourselves everyday, as well as feed the cats. My wife was astonished that we could do such a thing at that age, because her parents never herself and her brothers alone until they were all in high school.

Meanwhile, my father-in-law's stepsons can't do squat unless they're instructed to, they don't know how to cook or prepare the simplest of meals, won't remember to lock their front and back doors, don't feed the animals they profess to love, and leave the house a pig sty when nobody cleans up after them. We'd been sent on many occasions to check on their home if they go away once a year. They are 16 and 18, and the younger having the attention span of a flea, and they both talk back to their parents about everything (all 3 of them). No jobs, no good grades, no discipline, but they feel internet access and a healthy allowance is a right for their behavior. If my brother and I acted that way (and we did, on rare occasion), we'd get smacked around physically and punished (that is, no rewards, allowance, privileges) for our shabby behavior. I'm not saying beating your kids is the answer, as I'm totally against that, but the second part, the lack of reward for a lack of behavior is what's missing today.

All too often, I see parents give in to their kids demands, or fail to discipline them when they are acting up where it's disrespectful and dangerous to do so. After all, they can just sue the company, or ask for compensation if something happens...of course, that still won't make them happy, as they'll be the first to say! And I have a particular grudge when parents use me to discipline or invoke fear their rug-rats: "That man over there (points at me) is going to get angry at you if you don't behave!" I think a system of reward and punishment was never set up for them. Maybe the parents don't know how to act (in some rare cases, I've seen kids restrain their parents when they behave worse than their kids), since a temper tantrum works wonders for them when they were younger.

Although it's right to teach people that the center of the universe is focused on the individual, if the caveat that "there are also other individuals, by the way" is not taught, then nobody is going to follow any Golden Rule, or have respect for other people, their rights, their property, and responsibility is non-existent.

I don't think all is lost, however: There's kids that are super-smart nowadays, I'm glad there are members here quite a bit younger than me that can teach me a thing or two (they don't involve internet-subculture, either). I was put the gifted programs years ago, and yet the general knowledge some children know now, is learned years sooner than I recall doing so myself. And for all those that we criticize and view with disdain, there's plenty of others that pass us by every day without causing problems and without creating increasing levels of disgust. Generally, they just fly under the radar.

We, especially as adults, are quick to point out the problems and faults, and find it easy to find the words about what we don't like about something. But we find it a bit more difficult to praise something, or to discuss what we like. Maybe that's the other lesson here: The gears of duality aren't meshing properly at times; we find it hard to match with equal parts reward with punishment, rights with responsibility, good times with bad times, the knowledge of the past with the change the future bring...

* Who the heck was "Skatman John", anyhow? Google isn't much of a help, for once. Maybe it's better that I don't know.

 

[wfooshee]

Some of this comes from both parents working, too, I think. They can't help but rely on day care, school, whoever, to do the required discipline when needed, but said day care, school, whatever, isn't allowed to do the discipline.

Whoever came up with the idea that corporal punishment is the same as beating, and that it scars the child emotionally, should have a few scars applied to himself. The idea that spanking teaches violence as the means of achieving a goal is preposterous. Without spanking, you have no fear of punishment in the child. To them, whatever behavior they display has no consequence they're not willing to endure.

"Oh, my God, Mom, not TIME OUT!!!! Anything but that!!!"

Bring paddles back to schools. If you don't want the school raising your kids, then freakin' stay home with them. If you can't afford your house or your car if you stay home, then you've done some poor planning; don't make it society's burden to keep your kids straight.

There's also a certain confusion about rights. A person may assume he has the right to own a certain car, or live in a certain house. True enough. Having the right to achieve those means is not the same as entitlement, though, and too many kids are coming up thinking they're entitled, like a 14-year-old who won't flip burgers because that's "beneath" him, which is in itself a lack of respect for the system.

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

I'm not a parent, but I definitely know where y'all are coming from. Parents are the problem. There is only one reason kids can do whatever they want: their parents just let them. They do nothing to stop little Johnny from doing anything he wants, because they don't have the gall to punish him.Society has created a situation in which many parents don't want to punish their kids with so much as a swat, because if anyone finds out, they will be labeled as abusive parents and social pariahs. The lack of discipline then leads to the child failing to learn how to act respectful and polite, and never instills a proper sense of right and wrong.

Giving in to the kids every whim turns them into the spoiled, self-entitled brats we see running around today. I've noticed something in high school. For the most part the cars in the Senior parking lot are like mine: older, used cars, some beaters, likely hand-me-downs or ones payed for by the kid who drives them. However, there are a many exceptions, like the two yellow H2 Hummers, a late model Mercedes, a few brand new Mustangs, and a 2006 F-150 with more money put into off-road mods then most of the other cars in the lot are worth. And there seems to be a strong correlation between driver and car:

The more expensive the first car, the bigger the jackass behind the wheel. With few exceptions on either side, it seems that (surprise, surprise) the kids that have the $30K+ first car are spoiled brats who think themselves superior to everyone else, and are not afraid to show it. Daddy got them a new Mustang, because they just had to have one. And that kind of pisses me off, because I know many kids who had to buy their own car. Hell mine was a hand-me-down, and has seen at least 3 previous drivers, two of them in my family.
We're raising a nation of spoiled, undisciplined, self-entitled brats. An I'm not sure there are enough sane people to balance it all out.

 

[Sphinx]

I traveled to the US (St Louis) and found myself on a bus that was full of local pensioners who were chatting away to each other. The bus was making numerous stops before reaching its final destination and this little old lady climbed onboard. Unfortunately for her no seat was available and she was thus forced to stand in the aisle of the bus. I therefore promptly offered her my seat and upon doing so the whole bus went silent with astonishment. At this point I became overly embarrassed (the reason why I remember it so well) because it was obvious I had just done something very unusual in their eyes. This embarrassment continued throughout the journey because the pensioners on the bus were talking to each other about what just happened and totally ignoring that i could hear them, “did you see that?” “he gave up his seat” “I haven’t seen that for years” and very similar comments as quoted below:

• Gone are the days when kids said good morning, excuse me, or a simple hello.

I was 17 at the time, and the year was 1978. I guess things don't change.



Sadly, as we get older we tend to not notice the good things about the young and just concentrate our thoughts on all the bad things that we have rammed down our throats by the media, or the things that we see on the street because of way that we’ve been primed to notice all the bad things, whilst totally ignoring all the good things.

 

[Danoff]

Kids have rights too, the right to be loved, the right to feel safe etc.

Granted children have rights, but I don't think anyone has a right to love or the feeling safety.

 

[Diego440]

After a bit of searching, it seems it is indeed Scatman John... He had a huge techno hit in the mid-90s, but apparently he's been around since forever.

One of my wife's aunts is a psychologist... and 'old skool' child psychologist, and she's told me repatedly that when there's a kid acting up, a soft slap on time is worth more than strong words and therapy for the rest of his/her life...

Also, it rarely rains here, so the sidewalks get very slippery when it does (they're not stone, but more of a polished granite). Last time it rained I saw a group of about seven kids standing on a corner, recording everyone who walked by and slipped. There was this old lady (must've been about 167 years old) who slipped and couldn't get up... I was in my car and saw the whole thing, but there were a lot of people aroiund so I expected someone to help her. No one did.

I had to get out of my car, go to her, ask her if she was alright and even call the ambulance when she couldn't answer me coherently. Finally the ambulance came and I left... when I got back in my car, the kids were still recording.

 

[Kent]

Well,
Sounds to me like you guys are getting old.

At the same time though, even back in the day it was a world that could be characterized as has been done for the present.
The actual methods have changed with technology but the demeanor of kids today is similar to the past if you look in the right places. That's just it though, you've got to look in the right places.

Skip back a bit... I've always been the kind to do as many of you old timers do... (open and hold doors, offer seats, please, thank you, etc etc) (I just call that stuff good manners 👍 )

In any case, I'm glad so many of you are disgusted with the manners of children today... The problem is probably all of their parents, right?

 

[exigeracer]

• Gone are the days when kids said good morning, excuse me, or a simple hello.

• I remember when I was a kid, one day there was a huge pothole in front of my building... the sort that would completely destroy a car's wheel if it fell in.

• Whenever someone slipped and fell down, the expected reaction was to help them up, ask if they were alright, and if not, do something about it.

These days parents leave it to the teachers to teach values, teachers leave it to TV and TV leaves it to the parents.

These days parents leave it to the teachers to teach values, teachers leave it to TV and TV leaves it to the parents.

So you're saying that you used to do all these kind acts as a yojngster yourself, but you forgot to teach them all to your children now you have a family to raise? How does the blame fall on anyone but yourself?

 

[Uhoh]

In any case, I'm glad so many of you are disgusted with the manners of children today... The problem is probably all of their parents, right?

As much as I would like to put all blame on bad parenting the kids (and even adults) are still the ones making the final decision for the actions they take (or don't take for that matter).

Here in Oklahoma late last year we had a real bad snow/ice storm worse than I'd ever seen in 27 years. Anyways I had stopped by my parents house to kinda make sure all was well and noticed a truck stuck on the ice at the end of the block. So I pull in the drive, jump in the house to get my lil sisters lazy ass excuse for a bf to come help me to get this truck unstuck. I swear it took threating him to get him off his ass to come help. I couldn't figure out why it was such a big deal to him till I stopped and realized how I was raised compared to him. I grew up outside mainly skateboarding with friends and such in the kinda enviroment where ya had to help each other out. Someone busted themselves up falling off a board ya stopped and helped em out. This punk tho was raised a doctors kid and was babysat by the television for most of his childhood. Now I'm not trying to say that the media, or music or GTA or anything is to blame but I belive a large part of it lies in a lack of values taught by the parents and part fault of his own for still not learning values by 19.

/end rant Sorry I'm just having insomnia so please ignore me.

 

[Diego440]

So you're saying that you used to do all these kind acts as a yojngster yourself, but you forgot to teach them all to your children now you have a family to raise? How does the blame fall on anyone but yourself?

I don't have kids yet

 

[exigeracer]

I meant your generation.

Your generation did the right things 30 years ago, now your generation is raising kids, and your generation's kids are messing up. Your generation is responsible for raising and teaching your children properly. Getting mad at this generation for the mistakes of your generation is pointless.

 

[Diego440]

Good point, but this generation is a product of the previous generation, so that says a lot. But my point was that the generation I belong to is raising kids that aren't in the age of the generation.

To make it simple, my generation is raising 0-10 year olds or so, and the issue here is with kids 12-25 or so.

 

[exigeracer]

Regardless, the blame rests squarely on the parents of the kids growing up today.