Solution to driver rating SR.

[MightyL]

There is quite an impact on the SR of players by other drivers pushing them off, involvement in tracks like online Tokyo and other things that are not always helping to separate the cleaner drivers from the lesser clean.
The solution: make the SR build not only in sport mode but everywhere. From track practice to arcade races to qualifying. Anything. That way you ll get a much clearer picture which drivers take this seriously and deserve a really high SR ...

 

[Sharpie]

There is quite an impact on the SR of players by other drivers pushing them off, involvement in tracks like online Tokyo and other things that are not always helping to separate the cleaner drivers from the lesser clean.
The solution: make the SR build not only in sport mode but everywhere. From track practice to arcade races to qualifying. Anything. That way you ll get a much clearer picture which drivers take this seriously and deserve a really high SR ...

Like your thinking.

 

[JulesDennis]

There is quite an impact on the SR of players by other drivers pushing them off, involvement in tracks like online Tokyo and other things that are not always helping to separate the cleaner drivers from the lesser clean.
The solution: make the SR build not only in sport mode but everywhere. From track practice to arcade races to qualifying. Anything. That way you ll get a much clearer picture which drivers take this seriously and deserve a really high SR ...

You got my vote too...

 

[Greatbee]

There is quite an impact on the SR of players by other drivers pushing them off, involvement in tracks like online Tokyo and other things that are not always helping to separate the cleaner drivers from the lesser clean.
The solution: make the SR build not only in sport mode but everywhere. From track practice to arcade races to qualifying. Anything. That way you ll get a much clearer picture which drivers take this seriously and deserve a really high SR ...

Totally agree. 👍
https://media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif

 

[Tassie_tiger]

It's a reasonable call.
But driving a track by yourself doesn't really gel with "Sportsmanship".
And while Arcade may be more inline, even that could be "gamed" by using better tyres, for example.

But I think this SR apparent problem will all settle down in the full game.
As it stands it's largely racing around a handful of limited tracks with people of all skill levels.

Once PD settle on the final formula, and all tracks are available, and drivers are settled into their driving classes, I feel the SR rating, and the large ups and downs, will calm down.
At least to the point where people are satisfied with the adjustment after a race.
There will always be things out if our control that disappoints, but in general I'm not concerned at this stage.

 

[Johnnypenso]

There is quite an impact on the SR of players by other drivers pushing them off, involvement in tracks like online Tokyo and other things that are not always helping to separate the cleaner drivers from the lesser clean.
The solution: make the SR build not only in sport mode but everywhere. From track practice to arcade races to qualifying. Anything. That way you ll get a much clearer picture which drivers take this seriously and deserve a really high SR ...

Driving alone against AI is completely different than racing with real people so an SR built around racing offline isn't really reflective of how good you are against real people which is the whole purpose of the SR to begin with. No one cares what you do alone, it's completely irrelevant to the SR.

 

[MightyL]

Driving alone against AI is completely different than racing with real people so an SR built around racing offline isn't really reflective of how good you are against real people which is the whole purpose of the SR to begin with. No one cares what you do alone, it's completely irrelevant to the SR.

I completely disagree. but hey...

 

[Lukanyon]

So I could earn a lot of SR playing at the lowest difficulty in Arcade Mode, then go to Sport Mode, destroy everybody's races, and repeat all over again?
No, thanks.

 

[MightyL]

So I could earn a lot of SR playing at the lowest difficulty in Arcade Mode, then go to Sport Mode, destroy everybody's races, and repeat all over again?
No, thanks.

I don't see your point. earning SR is done by not going off track and not touching other drivers. That is the same thing online or in arcade. If you can do this in arcade you can also do this in Sport Mode and vice versa.
Yes you could build SR by setting difficulty to the lowest but that doesnt make you quick so you won't end in the same league as fast drivers because of your lower DR. So the only ones you could destroy their races are players that are evenly fast as you at your personal lower arcade level pace. Which means at that lower pace you can be clean and not destroy their races as you have proven while building your SR in low difficulty arcade.
being quick means to push your own limits, get better and better. Getting better will get you a higher DR. which will be combined with a higher SR if you have been doing your driving cleanly (in arcade or time trial or whatever) or lower SR if you happen to go off track or bumping into others (in arcade or time trial or whatever) while trying to be faster.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

There is quite an impact on the SR of players by other drivers pushing them off, involvement in tracks like online Tokyo and other things that are not always helping to separate the cleaner drivers from the lesser clean.
The solution: make the SR build not only in sport mode but everywhere. From track practice to arcade races to qualifying. Anything. That way you ll get a much clearer picture which drivers take this seriously and deserve a really high SR ...

So I could set up a private room at the new big oval, with one friend, and we could hotlap for a few hours with each other on track to achieve max SR?No thanks.

While I'm a little sad at the prospect of SR being limited to only PD-sanctioned Sport Mode events, a level of control is needed to avoid users gaming the system.

I've suggested it elsewhere, but what I think could help SR is a switch from the current cumulative system to an averages-based system, taking into account anywhere from the last 10-50 races. It gives an idea of how a racer has performed recently: the current one doesn't really make that clear, as it's career-long rating.

I saw a 99 SR rating the other day, which was either a coincidence, or a sign there's a ceiling to SR. If there isn't one, the averages system solves another issue: that those that begin playing on day one have a significant advantage over those that start, say, three months later.

 

[Lukanyon]

I don't see your point. earning SR is done by not going off track and not touching other drivers. That is the same thing online or in arcade. If you can do this in arcade you can also do this in Sport Mode and vice versa.
Yes you could build SR by setting difficulty to the lowest but that doesnt make you quick so you won't end in the same league as fast drivers because of your lower DR. So the only ones you could destroy their races are players that are evenly fast as you at your personal lower arcade level pace. Which means at that lower pace you can be clean and not destroy their races as you have proven while building your SR in low difficulty arcade.
being quick means to push your own limits, get better and better. Getting better will get you a higher DR. which will be combined with a higher SR if you have been doing your driving cleanly (in arcade or time trial or whatever) or lower SR if you happen to go off track or bumping into others (in arcade or time trial or whatever) while trying to be faster.

My point is, you are nullifying the very purpose of the SR system.
Time Trial in Arcade Mode, for example. We use it when we want to test a new car/track, a new tune, or to see how we can improve our times. With SR on, we would be worried about testing our limits, setting better times, because all of that implies trial and error. We shouldn't be punished for learning with our mistakes when we're in Arcade Mode because we're not harming anyone.
By your logic, I wouldn't be able to make a cruising lobby or a drift lobby, because people would be punished for that, too. I think it's unfair.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I think the final game will require you to do a qualifier before you go online, to determine at what level you will begin. Remember the "7-77"?
They could also have gold-silver-bronze times in qualifying, and depending on your medal, you get a more level starting field for your own skill. Basically four rooms for each race, and you end up in a specific room depending on your time; gold, silver, bronze and AM.
Maybe a platinum room for the aliens...

 

[TRGTspecialist]

I've suggested it elsewhere, but what I think could help SR is a switch from the current cumulative system to an averages-based system, taking into account anywhere from the last 10-50 races. It gives an idea of how a racer has performed recently: the current one doesn't really make that clear, as it's career-long rating.

I saw a 99 SR rating the other day, which was either a coincidence, or a sign there's a ceiling to SR. If there isn't one, the averages system solves another issue: that those that begin playing on day one have a significant advantage over those that start, say, three months later.

I like the idea of a rolling average although if there is a ceiling to SR - so there's a limit on how just doing a lot of races can affect how your SR changes proportionally - then the current system isn't wildly different. One issue though with a rolling average is how do you settle new players and matchmaking? Give them a "default" SR for an initial set of races before you can (properly) pen down their average? If the default was low then again it would be pretty similar to the current system - but too high and it would be unfair on existing players who may experience a lot of mismatching with new players. Or could you restrict them to an "unrated" pool for a number of races before you figure out a rating for them and allow them to race with others?

 

[FS7]

PD could use my suggestions:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/online-driver-rating-system.316969/

 

[cutmeamango]

I'll just quote my thoughts from another topic:

Given that you'll likely need to go through the license/campaign, I'd frankly just [...] have full damage from the beginning. And I'd add to that the requirement of bronze/silver/gold at Track Training section for Sport mode with the car category you are racing.
I imagine that would fix 90% of the problems you see racing.

It's not hard to increase your SR, but that would make it less likely for starting people to hit the perceptual "sisyphus' task" of increasing it.

I saw a 99 SR rating the other day, which was either a coincidence, or a sign there's a ceiling to SR. If there isn't one, the averages system solves another issue: that those that begin playing on day one have a significant advantage over those that start, say, three months later.

SR goes to 99 max, it says so in the info box and crawl.

And what would that significant advantage be?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I like the idea of a rolling average although if there is a ceiling to SR - so there's a limit on how just doing a lot of races can affect how your SR changes proportionally - then the current system isn't wildly different. One issue though with a rolling average is how do you settle new players and matchmaking? Give them a "default" SR for an initial set of races before you can (properly) pen down their average? If the default was low then again it would be pretty similar to the current system - but too high and it would be unfair on existing players who may experience a lot of mismatching with new players. Or could you restrict them to an "unrated" pool for a number of races before you figure out a rating for them and allow them to race with others?

You could just do like iRacing does. All the new guys go into a Rookie type class and have to get a certain level before advancing to play in the general pool.

 

[TJ13]

SR goes to 99 max, it says so in the info box and crawl.

And what would that significant advantage be?

That you are good at Northern Isle Speedway and nothing else?

Since I only raced NIS and I am up to 42

 

[Windfire1010]

As someone who has been at 99 SR for the last week I disagree.

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

That you are good at Northern Isle Speedway and nothing else?

Since I only raced NIS and I am up to 42

Yeah I just found this out the other night after struggling to get out of SR 20 only racing Brands Hatch and Tokyo since the beginning, I was forced to go on NIS and now my SR is at 39.

 

[TJ13]

I think SR should be based on the Track you currently on, changes on the track itself.

As some say you can have a 99 rating if it's just NIS, then go to a different one and completely ruin it and probably others.

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

I think SR should be based on the Track you currently on, changes on the track itself.

As some say you can have a 99 rating if it's just NIS, then go to a different one and completely ruin it and probably others.

That's a good idea. Because you get very little SR for driving Tokyo and the chance of hitting the wall is far greater that at an oval where I saw someone driving on the apron an entire race collecting points.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah I just found this out the other night after struggling to get out of SR 20 only racing Brands Hatch and Tokyo since the beginning, I was forced to go on NIS and now my SR is at 39.

If this is the case, it means the SR should probably be evaluated on a per track basis so that you can't both pad your stats, nor have them destroyed at certain types of tracks. It leaves the system open to manipulation. One easy way to resolve it would be to base the SR update at each track based on the average number of incidents rather than the absolute number. PD has all the data, so if a track like Tokyo naturally produces more incidences, one's SR might only go up if you exceed the average, down if you are below it. Same with an oval that naturally produces less contact.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

The solution to SR is private/club lobbies.

/thread

 

[GENERALSAVANT]

If this is the case, it means the SR should probably be evaluated on a per track basis so that you can't both pad your stats, nor have them destroyed at certain types of tracks. It leaves the system open to manipulation. One easy way to resolve it would be to base the SR update at each track based on the average number of incidents rather than the absolute number. PD has all the data, so if a track like Tokyo naturally produces more incidences, one's SR might only go up if you exceed the average, down if you are below it. Same with an oval that naturally produces less contact.

Yeah I've also submitted for the issue for the problem of cars having to slow down on track to work off a “slow down” penalty when they tap a wall or go “4 off”. Too many times I’ve come barreling into a corner and run into divers who are off throttle on the racing line and as a result have had a big drop in SR or get disqualified all together from the collision.🤬 I’m helping as much as I can to make the game the best it can be as a final product for all players but when the full game debuts I’ll be in private lobbies.

 

[baldgye]

So I could set up a private room at the new big oval, with one friend, and we could hotlap for a few hours with each other on track to achieve max SR?No thanks.

While I'm a little sad at the prospect of SR being limited to only PD-sanctioned Sport Mode events, a level of control is needed to avoid users gaming the system.

I've suggested it elsewhere, but what I think could help SR is a switch from the current cumulative system to an averages-based system, taking into account anywhere from the last 10-50 races. It gives an idea of how a racer has performed recently: the current one doesn't really make that clear, as it's career-long rating.

I saw a 99 SR rating the other day, which was either a coincidence, or a sign there's a ceiling to SR. If there isn't one, the averages system solves another issue: that those that begin playing on day one have a significant advantage over those that start, say, three months later.

On top of this as an issue, wouldn't it also put people at a disadvantage for going all out on practice/quali laps?

Why push yourself to the limit if there is a chance you could hit a wall, spin out and thus hurt your SR?
IMO the whole point of the SR is to put you in races of people of a similar level in terms of respect, initially you’re probably going to either build it up slower than you'd like or struggle, but the more events you take part in the higher
your rating will be.

To be honest I don't see an issue with it now, if you’re coming up to someone who looks like they will be an issue, back off and let them go off by themselves. I had an oval race where I had several guys in front of me all over the place, instead of letting them take me out intentionally or unintentionally I just backed off and got past them when I could do so without issue.

 

[CodeCmdr]

I played iRacing for a month and I absolutely loved the strictness of their SR/license system (I think they call it Safety Rating, rather than Sportsmanship Rating like in GTS), as it makes players drive very respectfully. Improving ones SR by driving cleanly eventually yields higher racing licenses. Nearly all leagues in that game have license requirements; the faster the cars, the higher the license requirements. There are a couple of rookie leagues, such as the Mazda MX-5 league, which don't require a license. The rookie leagues are a proving ground for people who want to drive faster sports cars and race-spec cars.

Driving like an idiot in races will result in a loss of SR and if done several times, a license downgrade. Getting a license upgrade takes a lot of time, which is why people drive with respect. Getting the first D license took me maybe 10 hours of driving in qualifying and race sessions, and I think further license upgrades can only occur once a month, if one's SR is good enough. SR isn't affected in practice sessions in iRacing, I think, only qualifying and race sessions of official league races.

The downside to iRacing's system is that it takes 3 months or so to get to the highest license. Excellent drivers may want to get into the fastest leagues right away but won't be able to.

I suppose it would be fair in GTS to allow SR to improve against the AI to a certain level, so that experienced drivers aren't forced to drive something like a Yaris or a Clio for weeks before getting to faster cars they are interested in. But because the AI in GT has always been monotonous, being able to drive cleanly against them doesn't prove much; a session involving only human drivers (with the added network latency related challenges) is more complex and requires different skills.

 

[suprajef]

As someone who has been at 99 SR for the last week I disagree.

Doesn't really apply to you because you are so fast. Usually the really fast guys race clean. It is the ones behind you that cause problems.

Edt: also sport mode it like quickmatch. But you get to qualify for your starting position instead of it being random.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Doesn't really apply to you because you are so fast. Usually the really fast guys race clean. It is the ones behind you that cause problems.

Edt: also sport mode it like quickmatch. But you get to qualify for your starting position instead of it being random.

So true. In GT5 and GT6 I raced quite a bit in random lobbies and almost always started at the front. The vast majority of the guys that were fast were also clean racers. Youd see the same ID''s over and over and you'd know as soon as you made it through the first corner OK you'd have a good race. Once in a while I'd change cars at the last minute or flub qualifying and start towards the back and it was almost always carnage, other than in a few well run lobbies.

 

[numbnuts70]

My solution to SR/DR.

Get rid of it altogether, it's a load of crap and flawed from the outset.

If you really want to rank drivers, do it by TTs.

In WRS we'd get varying levels of pace and all were predominantly clean racers.

You get kretins or gentlemen everywhere, just depends where you choose to drive.

 

[Johnnypenso]

My solution to SR/DR.

Get rid of it altogether, it's a load of crap and flawed from the outset.

If you really want to rank drivers, do it by TTs.

In WRS we'd get varying levels of pace and all were predominantly clean racers.

You get kretins or gentlemen everywhere, just depends where you choose to drive.

The DR is essentially an ongoing TT.