Spirit of Le Mans 1971 Online Event - Sat. February 10 - 16h PM (GMT)

  • Thread starter Hun200kmh
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Hun200kmh

Hun200kmh

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FLAT_TWELVE
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Ok, as some of you probably know I am a fan of endurance racing, of Le Mans, of classic cars and tracks, and recently I found my offline love in an Invitational Event (within career mode) called "Spirit of Le Mans". It simulates a 24-hour cycle and you can set it to last something between 20 minutes and the real-time 24 hours.

So, you're all invited to try a online version of this event. I'm open to a discussion of the length of the race but honestly it makes no sense that the race itself is shorter than 1h30. My preferred setting would be 2h24 (that's 1/10 of the real event). Of course you can use your AI teammate to do a stint in the middle of the race if you like, so don't worry much about driving the entire time without pause.

You can pick any car from the VPTA class, there's two 917 and two 512 to pick from. The 512M is possibly the slower in a straight line (512S and 917 LH being the "coda lunga" rocketships to follow down the entire Hunaudieres straight)


Here the cars:

Porsche-917-LH.jpg


Ferrari-512-S-Coda-Lunga-81256.jpg


917K.jpg


512M.jpeg


A couple of notes:

1) We will have AI cars in the lobby, settings to be disclosed (testing underway). The aim is to have them be slower than us humans but not by much. They'll still be favourites for the outright win because ...

2) ... there will be damage (Performance Impacting)

3) We'll also have to contend with ... and be VERY WARY OF ... traffic, because we will have a few GT-class cars in the field. AI driven, of course.

4) Worry not, the track will be dry throughout, although it won't always be "clear". The event will be set to June anyway so expect a nice warm track.


If you want to have a taste of what this could be like, go and try the invitational event I mentioned above. If you like it and feel yourself immersed in the good old 70's motorsposts scene ... join up.

I will post more info during the week.
 
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I might be interested :) I have to be honest and say that I find most vintage tracks a bit dull for the lack of corners. But I havent tried the old Le Mans track yet. I know at least there are no chicanes on the Mulsanne but the rest of the track is a mystery for me.
 
Nice of you to join @Mr_D , I suggest you practise using the "Spirit of Le Mans" Invitational race (under career, if you have trouble finding it I'll PM you some screen grabs to get you there).

Sooo ... last night I run a settings test with Ricardo (@GTP_RPREGO ) with the AI at 80/100 and with damage at "Performance Impacting").

The fastest guys are still posting very good laptimes and, although it was funny to watch the pits crowded after laps 1 and 2 (with many AIs going there for repairs) the truth is that once the field spreads the front guys keep lapping at a relentless pace and even if we can be faster than them we cant do it every lap, plus we always have our mishaps to account for. I got a minor front punt (braking into Mulsanne corner behind a 917) and apparently without mechanical consequence but (with the front damage showing at 7) it was enough for my car to lose some 20 kmh in top speed. That kills your race, better to pit anyway. Ricardo, less experinced with this track, had a frustrating experience with a few visits to the pits (and this was a short 30 minutes race). You also have to add to the euqation that, with AI cars in the mix, we're not always the ones to blame, yellow flags exist in this game but they don't always work (french marshalls to blame I guess) so we can suddenly find a crashed car when we're approaching Indianapolis, or in the Tertre Rouge esses ... and there's no escape, either we collect the car or go crashing into the armco.

All this said ... my debriefing notes with Ricardo were clear: revert to "Visual Only" damage, but still keeping "mechanical failures" possible (in the hope that raeggee, with his savage downshifts, blows his engine before midrace :D ).

About race duration, I'm still divided on 24h/15 (1h36) or 24h/10 (2h24), but will probably go with the former, I know many here aren't fond of 2h or more of racing continuosly (reaggee on the other hand is strongly lobbying for the 2h24 format :dopey: )

About the supporting class (the GT cars) I am also torn between two options: Vintage GT-A (correct era, early 70's cars) or Group 4 (late 70's). The problem with Vintage GT-A is that it features prominently cars without headlights (Jag E, Mustangs and Camaros, Nissan 240Z) and that is just stupid in a 24h simulation. So I will probably go with the Group 4 car class , where all cars present have headlights (BMW M1, Ferrari 512BB, Porsche 944).

So, here's what I guess is the (almost) final setting for the event.


1 - EVENT SETTINGS

A) LOBBY AND RULES/PENALTIES
  • Private Lobby - Invite only
  • Fill vacant slots with AI - Yes (16 cars on the grid regardless of how many human players)
  • Wait for race ready - On
  • Rules & Penalties - On
  • Track Limit Penalties - On
  • Allowable Time Penalty - 30
  • Drive Through Penalties - On
  • Pit Exit Penalty - On
  • Competitive Racing License - On

B) RACE AND REALISM SETTINGS
  • Track is "Le Mans Vintage Circuit"
  • Rolling Start
  • Allow Auto Start Engine -Yes
  • Force Interior view - No
  • Force Driving Line Off - No
  • Force Default Setups - No
  • Force Manual Gears - No
  • Force Realistic Driving Aids - No
  • Allow Anti Lock Brakes - Yes
  • Allow Traction Control - Yes
  • Allow Stability Control - No
  • Damage Type - Visual Only
  • Mechanical Failures - Yes
  • Allow Ghosted Vehicles - Yes
  • Force Manual Pit stops - Yes
  • Pit Stop Errors - No
  • Tire Wear - Accelerated
  • Fuel Depletion - On
  • Force cool down Lap - Yes

C) WEATHER/Time of Day:
  • Free Practise - clear sky, night time (10:00 PM)
  • Quali - Overcast, daytime (11:00 AM)
  • Race - Starts at 15:00, ends at approximately the same hour. Weather will change during the race but the track will be always DRY.

D) SEASON
  • It is June (as it must) so for this game it is a "summer" race.

E) HUMAN DRIVEN CARS
  • Racers can pick any of the cars from the VPTA class (all pictured above).

F) AI DRIVEN CARS
  • The field will, regardless of how many human entrants, always have 16 cars, the AI will fill all available slots.
  • AIs will show up in other types of cars, and they can go from more VPTAs to Group 4 cars.
  • The AI setting is still undecided, I have to check what works and what doesn't. In any case put your minds at ease, damage is Visual Only so any mishap due to AI cars won't impact your performance. In any case don't treat them as if they arent there, because even a damage-less crash remains a costly experience (in time lost if nothing else). Plus if you have a crash that leaves you without headlights that will mean either a mandatory pit visit or a huge gamble, with more crashes bwing very probable.

G) Random words of advice (consider this a pre-race briefing)
  • PITS are fully manual. This means you will still be driving your car inside the pit lane, and you must be the one parking it in your pit stall. It is best if you don't have a "pit limiter" button set because then the game will activate the limiter for you (same happens with headlights, but people usually like to have full control over them)
  • STRATEGY - Not sure if you need one, IIRC the tyres of these cars go a long way, even with the Accelerated wear setting we will use. About the fuel, one pit stop is surely needed, but I'm not sure if a second will also be (in a 1h40 race, if it it 2h24 we'll all need either 2 or 3 fuel tanks to complete it). Do your testing and come to your conclusions.
  • SETUPS - I think the stock setups have too much downforce, so you will want to take some of it, and then adjust the gear ratios to maximise top speed down the Hunaudiéres. The car I used for the offline "Spirit of Le Mans" race (512M) is a slug compared to the others so I took its front aero to 0 (zero) and left the back with 1 (one). Didn't change much more (reduced a bit the brake ducts and engine air intake, again in the quest for speed). Btw used LOOSE ad base setup.

H) The Event

  • LOBBY - will be open and invites will be sent a few minutes before 16 PM(UK and PT time, 17 PM in most of continental Europe).

  • PRACTISE AND QUALIFYING - You don't have to take part in either of these! Just make sure you enter the lobby well before the end of quali, or else you won't be able to enter the race.
  • Practise will last 15 minutes (night time, so you get an idea of it)
  • Qualifying will last 20 minutes. (day time. This length should allow you about 4 to 5 flying laps)

  • RACE - This one you must enter!
  • It will be either 1h36 or 2h24 long, time will accordingly be accelerated with a x15 or x10 ratio


So far, we have:

1. Yours truly, but since I'll be away from home I will use, with kind permission from @tal , his PS4, rig and PSN account "hartur"
2. @Hun200kmh (my son will use my main PSN account, as usual when he can descend from his iracing high horse and make it to race us the common folk :D )
3. raeggee
4. @GTP_RPREGO
5. @Mr_D
 
Just spent a little while, okay a lot of while, on driving the porsche on vintage Le Mans. Takes a lot of adjusting but theres definitely fun to be had.

I think I touched pretty much every single tuning parameter there is to make this thing driveable. Maybe I completely destroyed the authentic vintage feel :D

Can you guys give me your average laptime so I know if I'm in the right ballpark? I topped out at about 380kph without drafting and I think I did a 3:05min but wasnt focused on laptimes too much, more about making the thing somewhat responsive and less understeery.

I was also wondering what tyre pressures you're running?
 
Mr_D
.... I think I did a 3:05min but wasnt focused on laptimes too much, ....
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Just.Stop.Testing. Now :scared: :scared: :scared:

LOL, no I think you're more than ok if you can keep that kind of speed lap after lap and consistently. I only tried and used the 512M, probably the slowest of the bunch (350 kmh at best and low on fuel), and my best EVER lap time was 3.08, I think aided with draft.

Are you testing with the 917 LH or the 917K? 380 kmh is indeed rocketship levels of speed!

EDIT - My usual laps in-race are all above 3.10, ranging from 3.11 to 3.14 depending on traffic
 
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Lol okay good to know. I had absolutely no point of reference I was just mucking about trying to get a feel for it. I'm using the LH, I think.

Obviously if you want to increase top speed you need to lower the aero but the Porsche also had MASSIVE toe angles, decreasing those did a lot for the top speed and it handles nicer too. I havent checked if its the same for the other cars but maybe that explains why the AI is so fast?

Btw I'd rather do a 1.5 to 2 hr race. Above 2hr is a bit much for me, but I suppose I could have the AI do a stint for me. Does that even work?

Edit. Havent tried nighttime racing yet. Maybe the lack of toe angle will cool the tyres too much at night leading to other problems. So it could be a compromise needs to be found.
 
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Hi @Mr_D , tried the 512 S yesterday (it's the long tail Ferrari). Clearly faster in a straight line, but a handful and brakes are horrid (at least, compared to the 512M). If and when you can manage an entire lap without crasing or "oh crap" moments it does go around the circuit faster than the 512M. My best yesterday was a 3.07, but it took me some time to dial the car to at least driveable standards! I'm guessing a 3.06 or 3.05 are achievable with it, but have no time to test further. In fact have no time also to try the Porsches so I'll just go with one of the Ferraris. Still to decide which though ...

About the length, we will stick with about 1h40, it does allow for a progression in time that feels smooth and is a reasonable period for anyone driving from start to finish. The entire event won't last much more than the usual monday's races.

Do try the nightime driving, you'll need to check your visual cues for the fast corners and your braking references for the slower ones. The track is very dark at night, this is mid XXth centure France, not XXIst century Singapore ;)
 
IfAndOr
Oh sorry, I thought you'd called me, but I see it was my twin brother you're after.
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Yeah but he told me he doesn't play PCars2, only something called Mass Effect or some such nonsense! :D
 
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Hun200kmh
Hi @Mr_D , tried the 512 S yesterday (it's the long tail Ferrari). Clearly faster in a straight line, but a handful and brakes are horrid (at least, compared to the 512M). If and when you can manage an entire lap without crasing or "oh crap" moments it does go around the circuit faster than the 512M. My best yesterday was a 3.07, but it took me some time to dial the car to at least driveable standards! I'm guessing a 3.06 or 3.05 are achievable with it, but have no time to test further. In fact have no time also to try the Porsches so I'll just go with one of the Ferraris. Still to decide which though ...

About the length, we will stick with about 1h40, it does allow for a progression in time that feels smooth and is a reasonable period for anyone driving from start to finish. The entire event won't last much more than the usual monday's races.

Do try the nightime driving, you'll need to check your visual cues for the fast corners and your braking references for the slower ones. The track is very dark at night, this is mid XXth centure France, not XXIst century Singapore ;)
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Sounds good. I'm in a bit of a hectic period though. Wife's in hospital about to give birth but could be a few more weeks though.. not sure when you're planning this, I reckon I have a couple of quiet nights before all hell breaks loose..

Edit. Watched the final laps of your spirit of le mans race. You definitely drive harder than me, braking later, better lines etc, its just the top speed thats the difference.
 
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I'm sorry @Hun200kmh I should have added earlier that I don't think I'll make it for Saturday.

There's the PS5 contrast issue to consider for night racing, especially if you throw in a bit of mist/fog. Plus my Logi DD wheel really doesn't like PC2, it'd be a struggle over a longer period.
But more importantly I may not be back home at that time. And also importantly, my PS Plus has run out again (I might renew it for Monday).
 
Hi Mario, I'm sorry, but I've got to say that I can't make this either. PS5-VR2-GT7 have come into my life, and I've burnt up all the wife's patience with my racing time already this week.

Good luck with the damage :)
 
All the best ro you and your wife @Mr_D ! Race is tomorrow 4 PM UK I guess 5 PM your time) you're more than justified if you don't show up.

@IfAndOr and @Zolon32 I'm sorry you guys can't show up too, I already suspected this kind of event isn't exactly your thing though. One has to try to bring you guys to the dark side :D
 
Ok, this is the day! Less than 4 hours from now the event will start. This is the schedule (all times GMT):

3.45 PM - Lobby open, invites will be sent. It's just a "get together" lobby for last minutes information, system/settings checks and doubts-clearing. The track will be open for Free Practise for about 15 minutes, with no AI cars present. This lobby closes at 4 PM

4.00 PM - Race Lobby open. Invites sent. AI cars present, filling all grid spots left open by human players.

4.00 PM - Free Practise - lasts 15 minutes. Weather will be clear but it will happen during the night so all have a chance to a last practise of night-driving.

4.20 PM - Qualifying - lasts 20 minutes, during day time, overcast weather.

4.45 PM - Race - lasts 1h45, simulating an approximate 24 hour day/night/day cycle. Weather will be variable and the weather settings are "Syinc to Race" in the following order:
Race start - Clear
In game 6 hours after - Overcast
In game 12 hours after - Light Fog
In game 18 hours later - Hazy

So the night, or at least the very late hours (3 AM onwards is my guess) until - and including - sunrise will demand your fullest concentration.

But no rain, thanks to raeggee :D


AI setting will be 90/100, I suppose this means the fastest guys will hav their fastest laps at around 3.12. Against them is that they lose time in slower traffic (although this is the track where this problem is minimized a lot by the long flat-out straights). For them is that, once the race settles, they don't usualy make mistakes.

Classification however is only about us humans, anything AI related is only for bragging rights.


Other important settings to bear in mind
  • Visual Only Damage (but be careful with those headlights, you'll need them)
  • Setups open (I can share my own for both the 512M and 512 S, only cars I drove)
  • You are in control of your car in pit lane! (you must be the one to stop it where your crew is)


About race/pit strategy my guess is that no tyres will need to be changed, but I think two stops for fuel will be needed. One to get a full tank in, the other probably just half a tank (or even less) close to the end of the race.



So far the confirmed entrants are 6.

1. Myself (FLAT_TWELVE) - Ferrari 5212 S (Filipinetti #14)
2. @Mr_D (Capt_quarck) - Porsche 917 LH (?)
3. Duarte (Hun200kmh) - Porsche 917 LH (Martini Livery)
4. raeggee (raeggee) - Ferrari 512 M (Sunoco)
5. Diogo (hartur) - Porsche 917 K (?)
6. Ricardo (GTP_RPREGO) - Ferrari 512 S (Ecurie Francorchamps, it's the yellow one)

This means we will have 10 AI cars to deal with, either Prototypes or GT.

But I'm sending one last call to the monday folks, I know your heart lies in shorter, pick up and drive it like you stole it racing, but this can be fun too. And worry not for lack of practise, the length of practise and qualifying sessions coupled with your experience and known skill will get you up to speed in no time.

@Zolon32 lucky you with that VR thing, Duarte is a fan also but every time I tried it I became so nauseated (for long periods of time) that I will never try that again (only managed a decent experience flying a F16 over the Atlantic, and making minor adjustments, no loops or anything LOL). About GT7, I can understand how its eye-candy might be catchy but honestly, I golded the licenses and missions and everything else was a stale experience. GT7 is a beautiful frigid lady compared to the hotness of the PCars2 woman. And the game structure itself is abhorrent (not to mention being ruled by greed). The disk is picking up dust in my shelf (and was given to me by raeggee so that tells you what he thinks of the game also).

@IfAndOr I hear you about the dark side, my best suggestion is that you ask Ricardo what did he do, because it's been a long time now that I don't hear that complaint from him (and he was the first to point this out to me as a problem when he switched from PS4 to PS5).
 
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The time is a bit awkward for me. I suppose I could eat dinner a bit early, I'm Dutch so I eat proposterously early anyway, that means I should be able to join just in time for the race. Is it possible to join during quali?
 
Yes, of course. I'm opening the lobby now, racw start it will be some 45 minutes from. However, if if you dont set a time in quali it's best if you enter the lobby now, or else you may have trouble entering later. Invites will be out in a minute or 2 now
 
Hun200kmh
GT7 is a beautiful frigid lady compared to the hotness of the PCars2 woman.
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Got to admit that this is true Mario. If GT had the steering of PC2 it would be heaven; but it doesn't. However, it has gripped me because I've been dreaming of having a 3D/VR racing game for a looooong time. And, I'm still in the license/challenge phase...

It certainly won't displace PCars, but I know that I'll keep sneaking back to it. Just one stand-out moment. I looked down into the cockpit, and saw my own feet! It was quite surreal.
 
@Zolon32 , PCars2 also has VR, sadly (for those that can use it) it's only available in the PC version of the game.

One of many videos about it:


Then again, I simply can't use VR so I'm just glad that you are! 👍

Right, now for a quick recap of a eventful race. If I had the time to write a romance about it I would use a title like "The Curse of the 917 LH" or similar.

To explain this I have to tell you that raeggee, sometime during last week, told me the 917 L (1970) and the 917 LH (1971), although the best/fastest in theory, built and designed specifically to win Le Mans ... didn't. Both years the winner was a 917K (the short tail one).

Well this time the outcome was different, but only because the winning car was a Ferrari. But it is true that the race was pretty much dominated by Duarte in one of the two 917LH present (the other being raced by @Mr_D ), and that car was simply uncatchable. If you watch just the first lap of the live video posted above you'll notice how he overtakes me and just goes away, pulling an impossible speed that my 512S, even with draft, just couldn't keep up with.

Sadly, both Duarte and raeggee were disconnected about 20 minutes before race end, if it didn't happen my guess is that Duarte would gain one lap on all the field.

My race-long fight was with @Mr_D and, after Duarte got disconnected, that fight suddenly became a fight for overall win. Here I won because of a gamble I made, keeping out on track without headlights well into the night (go into around 00:45 into that video if you want to know what that looks like, lol). This earned me a few more crashes thatI'd like to suffer, but in the end it meant that my 2nd and last pitstop would be just a "splash'n dash" one. @Mr_D pitted earlier so he ran out of juice a lot sooner, had to fill some more fuel and that pretty much accounts for the +/- 15 seconds that separated us at the line. 15 seconds after 1h45 of racing our hearts out was fantastic!

All in all, I had a great experience, and although my victory is a bit tainted by what happened to Duarte, he was very philosophical about it all, saying that this is typical Le Mans, many times over the last century the car in front suddenly broke close to the end.

I hope @Mr_D enjoyed the experience, I know all others from my PT group did but that was to be expected, that's something we have been doing for many years now. As usual when the race was over everyone commented how it went by quickly, no boring moments.

The presence of AI was troublesome to some, I however can't complain. I guess my offline experience gives me some know how on what to expect from them. So and unless I get online fields of 10 or more players for this kind of racing events (not gonna happen) there's no way I'm going to do without them anytime soon, long tracks with 5 or 6 cars are just: a) unrealistic; b) boring.

One thing I still have to work on though. To find classes that have equivalent cars and/or no clear "dominant" one. We already know Group C is spoiled by the Nissan (we used that at Brno) and now we know the 917 LH is - at least at Le Mans - clearly faster than all others. The Group 6 cars (to keep within Le Mans theme) are just two and the Porsche 936 is also way faster than the Renault A442.

Much to think then! ;)

Cheers all that read all these ramblings, share you thoughts regardless if having been in the race or not!

:gtpflag:
 
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Hun200kmh
Sadly, both Duarte and raeggee were disconnected about 20 minutes before race end,
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Ah, you've found the secret race organiser's "boot them off" button.


I watched sections of the race, I was back in time, and was there for the finish. I did wonder where Duarte had gone, I missed his exit. And the 917LH was fast. In Mr D's case, even without it's rear bodywork. 🙂
 
It was a fun experience. Thank you for putting in time and effort organizing this.

I do a lot of 24h endurance racing offline with full damage but I usually come a bit better prepared. I hadnt really mastered the track yet and when the sun went down, and the contrast issues up.., it was a real struggle to drive even halfway decent. A crash broke the front window and the headlights. I have to say the first stint I thought to myself this is going to be a looong race like this XD

After the first pit all was repaired and night came so ironically vision was much improved and I could work on better driving :)

I like the HUD settings very minimal for better immersion and focus but it means for online racing I have no idea what car is in front of me or how far, or if it's AI or human. (Offline I just pause the game). Something I'll change for next race..

Pretty close in the end like you said. Really cool. Wished I crashed one less time.. Next time ;)
 
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