Stewards!! Little input please

[covan2306]

I was in a race, heading towards hairpin, early break to apply pressure on guy infront, I see he has run long\wide, I choose to push through right then. Held tighter to right than I would have like as to keep it clean. In turn I lose some speed, as a result gives him something to bite at, he taps me a few times and I get a 10s pen.

For future judgement I'd like to know if I was bad, or if I got PD'd. Ty

 

[Herrybo79]

Why you donˋt let a little Bit Space on the left?

 

[qwbufp]

I was in a race, heading towards hairpin, early break to apply pressure on guy infront, I see he has run long\wide, I choose to push through right then. Held tighter to right than I would have like as to keep it clean. In turn I lose some speed, as a result gives him something to bite at, he taps me a few times and I get a 10s pen.

For future judgement I'd like to know if I was bad, or if I got PD'd. Ty

You must have surprised him big time with that dive bomb but the move was ok early on. You seemed to be squeezing him in the grass/wall. He was more than half a car length alongside you. If you were slightly steering to the left while his car hit yours, it will detect it as a move to cause a collision and that's 10s penalty. That my opinion...

 

[nemu_05]

you left enough space initially but the wall closes in and you essentially forced him into a wall. had you given enough space you would have been in a very good position and the other driver would have been forced to follow you through.

 

[covan2306]

I just ran the track again, guess I've never payed too much attention to that left wall, It does carve in.
Kinda bad situation, if I had gave him space we would a been 2 wide through the double chicanes

 

[SCCAdeanRX-7]

Yep, you should have gave him a little more room at the end of that turn and the next Corner would have been decited after that :-) but at least you're open to being wrong about a move. We all make mistakes while racing :-)

And A good rule of thumb is if you ever do accidentally bump someone off course or mess them up and pass them is to give them back their spot in front of you no matter how long you have to wait for other cars to pass.

 

[dabz343]

On the flip side, how hard should you chase after being passed? Every driver should be aware of their surroundings, no?

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I just ran the track again, guess I've never payed too much attention to that left wall, It does carve in.
Kinda bad situation, if I had gave him space we would a been 2 wide through the double chicanes

Correct, but with the lead inside line heading in the chicane you would have had full right of way. This actually happened to me today where I was on the outside heading into the chicane, with half a car lead on the inside driver. I literally braked, since he was too far inside for me to safely navigate the chicane. I braked, backed off the line and got behind him through the chicane... this is what he should have done if you would have given him ample space on the outside.

But i agree with everyone else, you cut him off on the outside forcing the contact.

 

[Lion-Face]

Yeah, as other people have said, you caused the pinch. The game, from what I understand, does penalise you if you tap a car and that car then has an accident. For example you tap a car and they run off the road or into a wall, you will get a penalty for causing it. There are times where it is entirely the fault of the other driver, but because you both had contact and the other driver ended up off the track, you will cop a time penalty for it. So it's best not to run tight on margins like that.

I feel that was a bit harsh gaining a penalty for that, but you did have room to move to the right and would have had priority heading into the chicane.

 

[Shottah072]

I just ran the track again, guess I've never payed too much attention to that left wall, It does carve in.
Kinda bad situation, if I had gave him space we would a been 2 wide through the double chicanes

If u were alongside he would have had to back out before the chicane. Sorry, but you ruined both your races by squizing him in the wall there. The penalty was well deserved in this case.

But on the flipside you are trying to learn from it and that is good. Being your own objective steward, looking back on all your incidents, not looking to assign blame on the other but to see what you could have done different, what he could have done different and trying to learn from that for future battles is one of the best skills a online driver could posses imo.

 

[DriftMethod]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I think your pass was good. That last camera angle shows it was tight, but the other driver was coming off the white line towards you. It looks like you left just barely enough room.

A few points to be kept in mind here.

1. It's racing and things move fast, so over analyzing those last few inches doesn't apply. You obviously didn't go all the way out to the line on exit.
2. You clearly had the corner and apex clean, it wasn't a nose dive, so the other driver should know they made a mistake and lost the racing line. If I had a car closing in on me and I missed the apex that badly, I wouldn't try to fight for the exit.
3. Ultimately it's a game and you got penalized. I've done much worse myself (unintentionally and still have an S SR rating) without any penalty, so everyone knows it's not a perfect penalty system.

 

[jesQuick]

To me your move looks legit. And it looks like he hits the wall to avoid touching you.
He taps you once and then he seems to be swerving a bit to the left and into the wall - but not because you bump him (you hold your line and doesn't turn left).
I'm no 'steward' but you were ahead, had the speed and held your line. I would have done the same. Hope I'm not in the wrong?! (Opinions are mixed in this thread)

 

[JaseScott]

I think DriftMethod got it mostly right.

Didn't study the vid too intently, but from what I glanced at The OP left a perfect amount of space on the outside there.
I would've enjoyed exactly that amount of space, not an inch more, it says challenge to me.
Enjoy a good challenge.
I would've been perfectly fine with the penalty handed out both ways if we came together like that also. Because we both chose to play the game at that point.
Both of you stayed in it.

The OP's mistake?
Not realising the opponent looked to be struggling a little with his control device/setup/whatever.
Should've gave him a bit more room to deal with that situation if you didn't want the penalty.
You want to play the game that tough OP?
Wear the penalties on the chin mate

 

[Shottah072]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I think your pass was good. That last camera angle shows it was tight, but the other driver was coming off the white line towards you. It looks like you left just barely enough room.

A few points to be kept in mind here.

1. It's racing and things move fast, so over analyzing those last few inches doesn't apply. You obviously didn't go all the way out to the line on exit.
2. You clearly had the corner and apex clean, it wasn't a nose dive, so the other driver should know they made a mistake and lost the racing line. If I had a car closing in on me and I missed the apex that badly, I wouldn't try to fight for the exit.
3. Ultimately it's a game and you got penalized. I've done much worse myself (unintentionally and still have an S SR rating) without any penalty, so everyone knows it's not a perfect penalty system.

Things move fast and we have to make snap decisions all the time. Sometimes they are wrong sometimes they are right. Analyzing them does apply if u want to make more right and less wrong snap decisions in the future.

The other car was still alongside, and struggling with controll after they tapped. This alone should be plenty of reason to give some space on the exit. But OP also had the inside for the next chicane and probably would have got him either way. In my opinion, that first tap, thats when u should have reacted by giving a bit of space, not lift, not to lose speed, just a little room for error knowing you are in a good position either way.

Ultimately this is a game indeed. We are gamers sitting behind a screen looking at the world trough a narrow view. We are not F1 drivers with super special spacial awareness and godlike car controll, and our competitors probably arent as well. Sometimes its hard to judge just how much space there is left and where exactly the other car is. Thats why for us its better to race hard but always leave some extra space instead of racing on the absolute max like we see on the telly.

 

[zzz_pt]

Obviously you deserved the 10 sec penalty. You pushed him to the wall instead of giving him a car's width on the outside.

On the flip side, how hard should you chase after being passed? Every driver should be aware of their surroundings, no?

Are you talking about the Subaru in front? If so, he wasn't passed. But pushed into the wall.

I agree that the OP should be aware of his sorroundings and not push the other driver into the wall.

Having said that, the leading Subaru shouldn't have left the inside wide open.

The whole situation is a bit weird and the bump physics doesn't help. From your point of view, the Subaru looks like it's flickering left and right but that's be cause it's your replay. I've found that when I see my car on other people's replays, my car is not going smooth as I see it ony own replay.

 

[CopperySinger]

very good scenario OP

You managed to size the opponent up on the first corner, but not completely passing. Track must be shared at this point (like divided highway, you on the right side) You squeezed him to the left wall because you preferred to take the next corner from that side; this was your mistake.

You should have taken the inconvenient right side, the other guy would have the best angle at the next corner and possibly gaining his position back in front of you; because, he managed to not let you pass him all the way and it made you technically defenseless.

 

[RotorHed]

Yeah this is a close call and I think it's this kind of example that would probably be ignored in a real race because there wasn't a major negative outcome - but the automated system in GTS is just too unforgiving in these cases.

Yes, on the straight leaving the corner the the other guy is entitled to room, but really your move was clean enough for F1 never mind tin top racing and didn't warrant an SR degrade and 10 sec penalty I'd say.

 

[Islaygaz]

I just ran the track again, guess I've never payed too much attention to that left wall, It does carve in.
Kinda bad situation, if I had gave him space we would a been 2 wide through the double chicanes

Yes but you would have had the inside line and he would (if he was a clean racer) have had to lift slightly for the first turn of the chicanes

 

[Firehuntah]

Kinda bad situation, if I had gave him space we would a been 2 wide through the double chicanes

It is possible to go 2 wide through both chicanes (or even just the first one), I've done it a few times before and if you're racing against a clean driver it should go well. So yeah, there was not much need to squize him into the wall there which gave you the penalty, most drivers back out before the chicane anyway if they're a bit behind you.

 

[zzz_pt]

It is possible to go 2 wide through both chicanes (or even just the first one), I've done it a few times before and if you're racing against a clean driver it should go well. So yeah, there was not much need to squize him into the wall there which gave you the penalty, most drivers back out before the chicane anyway if they're a bit behind you.

This is true but I always prefer not to do it because we both lose time and the guys behind can catch us both on the following straight under the tunnel.

Unless it's the last lap, maybe I can defend my position through the chicane, otherwise I will back off and try an overtake on the main straight.

 

[stevenhiggster]

You defo ran him wide but 10 secs imho is harsh. Should have been 3 secs to give him the position back and no more.
I got a 10 sec penalty the other day for barely even a tap on a guy, we were 3 wide going into a turn everyone touched everyone yet I was the only one that got a penalty. Yes it was contact that I could have avoided if I broke a nut hair earlier, but a 10 second penalty completely ruined my race, when the tap didn't even squirm the other guys back end. In real life the stewards would have given me a caution and that would have been that.

 

[DriftMethod]

Things move fast and we have to make snap decisions all the time. Sometimes they are wrong sometimes they are right. Analyzing them does apply if u want to make more right and less wrong snap decisions in the future.

The other car was still alongside, and struggling with controll after they tapped. This alone should be plenty of reason to give some space on the exit. But OP also had the inside for the next chicane and probably would have got him either way. In my opinion, that first tap, thats when u should have reacted by giving a bit of space, not lift, not to lose speed, just a little room for error knowing you are in a good position either way.

Ultimately this is a game indeed. We are gamers sitting behind a screen looking at the world trough a narrow view. We are not F1 drivers with super special spacial awareness and godlike car controll, and our competitors probably arent as well. Sometimes its hard to judge just how much space there is left and where exactly the other car is. Thats why for us its better to race hard but always leave some extra space instead of racing on the absolute max like we see on the telly.

First of all, I mean no disrespect to anyone. I really like this discussion and applaud OP for bringing it up in the first place.

I didn't say we shouldn't analyze. I said "...over analyzing those last few inches..." My point being it was really close and in my opinion a racing incident that should go unpunished. If OP made contact with the WRX and at the same time the WRX contacted the wall, then I would put the fault on OP. From what I could see the WRX actually initiated the contact and rebounded into the wall. Had the WRX kept a smooth line on exit, there may have been no contact at all. Watching the replay, there is a gap between the moment the cars contacted each other and when the WRX hit the wall, which to me means there was enough room.

zzz_pt mentioned it could be the replay making the WRX look like it's moving more than it really was, but without seeing the replay from the WRX, we can't tell what the "true" line was. Maybe with better evidence I would have to change my opinion.

You also mentioned "that first tap" but from what I saw there was only 1 point of contact between the cars and that was before the 150 braking marker before the chicane. Did you think they made contact earlier? It looks like they got really close but didn't touch at around the 17 second mark in the replay. Again, might be the replay not giving the full story, but I don't think there was contact there.

Putting it another way. I think everyone can agree that the WRX screwed up their braking and OP reacted. It's a race and the incident started with the WRX going off the racing line and I think OP rightfully made the move to take the racing line. I can't put fault on OP for that. When I make an error and lose the racing line to another driver, I feel it's my responsibility to back off and give up the position. I'm not the best driver and I have been in the WRX's position many times and have backed off.

 

[CopperySinger]

Putting it another way. I think everyone can agree that the WRX screwed up their braking and OP reacted. It's a race and the incident started with the WRX going off the racing line and I think OP rightfully made the move to take the racing line. I can't put fault on OP for that. When I make an error and lose the racing line to another driver, I feel it's my responsibility to back off and give up the position. I'm not the best driver and I have been in the WRX's position many times and have backed off.

The WRX missed a beat but recovered before the op could pass and the WRX took the outside left after recovery. Also, WRX should not have to give up position while being squeezed against the wall or off track.

Just because someone missteps the racing line doesn't mean he is out of the race. it gives the person behind an opportunity and it is up to him to make a clean pass.

A scenario that would put the WRX at fault is if he lost the line and then dove in on the right to cut the OP off; but this didn't happen

 

[jagenigma]

The 10 second rub penalty, I've gotten that before. Its when your car rubs on someone else's for too long. Idk if it's a glitch but that's a very harsh penalty to give out.

 

[dabz343]

Are you talking about the Subaru in front? If so, he wasn't passed. But pushed into the wall.

Not being specific about the WRX in this example, but in general as there are situations where a passed driver hangs on bit too aggressively and needs to be mindful/aware that he should respectfully back off.

When and what determines a completed pass? I think many drivers new to Sport do not have a clue on when a pass is cemented.

Btw, if I were the WRX, after blowing that corner and seeing the other car pulling/squeezing ahead with aggression, I would have respectfully tucked in behind knowing that a critical/speedy section was ahead. Easy to say but hard to do. Good etiquette sometimes means understanding how you take part in an event, to make the whole experience better for everyone.

Appreciate the post, there should be more like it as it helps to clarify much needed etiquette.

 

[covan2306]

Thanks for the responses people. I'm still caught on the fault side of things(last angle shows a lot of room and a bouncing wrx..) but I have gained and am applying a better method when passing in regard to what scraps I can and should feed them.