Still not convinced...

[ST-2]

Hello everyone. I've been hovering around these forums for a while now, and have finally decided to sign up.

I'd like to ask a question though... personally I'm still not completely 100% happy with GT5P. I know its only a 'demo' to tease us until the full blooded GT5 comes roaring onto our tv's. I'm not complaining about the usual stuff either, like lack of damage, computer AI etc, but the more basic stuff.

When GT2 (the first GT series I played) landed on my PS, I was obessed with it. I knew every car, every track in infinate detail, I loved it! Then GT3 arrived, again, brilliant. The lack of cars disappointed abit, but the graphics and level of detail were stunning. GT4? Masterstroke! Seriously, the best game ever developed imo.

So, with my mouth dry waiting for GT5, the prologue seemed like what the doctor ordered. PS3 purchased, mainly for this game lol. I sat myself in front of the tv, ready to loose myself in the fuel dreched, tyre smoking simulator that would kick arse! And... boom! Disappointment.

Why? Personally, GT5P feels heavy. The controls feel clumsy somehow, which is strange considering its the same set-up as all previous GT's. I just dont feel involved in the process, it gets boring after 3 laps. None of the cars seem to respond with light instant action of the GT3 and GT4 series. I know its a new engine running the show, but it feels like a massive step backwards. The latest update didn't help either imo, making the cars slide less elegently. They now feel like bricks skidding on ice.

A prime example is the new Evo X. A car that should have razor sharp responses, should drift with the poise of an ice skater. And its boring. Its got no challenge to it. It feels like the traction and stability control is left on, power is cut in corners, its a mess.

However, I think I might have seen some light... I had a real good time in the Audi TT today, and the Mini Cooper-S... but... they were in Standard pyhsics mode for a change. It felt like GT of old, but they didn't feel 100% right, no kick or sliding. Somehow, I think Prologue needs to be somewhere between the standard and professional modes to have a good balance for involvment.

Dont get me wrong, I love the Z06 on professional settings, the BMW 135i is a blast, the M3 a riot and the Mini Cooper-S and Focus ST are both good fun too. But cars like the RX8, Nissan 350Z, Evo X and Integra DC5 R are just weird, and dont feel right imo.

I'd love to see everyone elses opinion on the matter.

However, I must say that PD have done a brilliant job with the graphics, it looks amazing. Breth taking even... the white needs toning down a little tho imo, might be my tv tho

Thanks - Mark aka ST-2

 

[MightyMan]

Hey ST-2
I don't really have much to contribute as GT4 got me into the GT series.
I barely got through the licenses and then i sold my ps2 for a ps3 and GT5P, lol

My 2 cents: I have found that GT5P is quite boring for me now. But with my lack of GT knowledge, I assumed it was because deep down its just a glorified demo. However, I was thoroughly teased the first time I got it... Hearing about GTs past games and how legendary they are, I'm sure PD won't disappoint with the real game (I hope......) We'll just have to wait it out.

 

[Jay]

None of the cars seem to respond with light instant action of the GT3 and GT4 series. I know its a new engine running the show, but it feels like a massive step backwards. The latest update didn't help either imo, making the cars slide less elegently. They now feel like bricks skidding on ice.

The cars are behaving more realistically, have you tried standard physics? They are more towards GT4 type handling.

Also are you using a controller? I thought since one of the updated they increased the sensitivity of the sticks.

It feels like the traction and stability control is left on, power is cut in corners, its a mess.

You saying the power is cut on corners with stability manager off? I never noticed that, the Evo X does have a advanced yaw control with active LSD's, plus the GT5P version is the SST (dual clutch) which I agree makes the car rather boring. I actually find it a little too twichy on the straights.

However, I think I might have seen some light... I had a real good time in the Audi TT today, and the Mini Cooper-S... but... they were in Standard pyhsics mode for a change. It felt like GT of old, but they didn't feel 100% right, no kick or sliding. Somehow, I think Prologue needs to be somewhere between the standard and professional modes to have a good balance for involvment.

Oh yeah you have tried Standard, I have used standard physics a few times and I agree it isn't as good as GT4, feels much more watered down which allows you to do stupid maneuvers not even close to possible in real life.

 

[ST-2]

The cars are behaving more realistically, have you tried standard physics? They are more towards GT4 type handling.

Also are you using a controller? I thought since one of the updated they increased the sensitivity of the sticks.

Yes I use a controller, but I use the D-pad instead of the sticks. I find i can get finer inputs into the car by using this. I'd like a wheel, but I would want it in a proper frame, I couldn't hack it on my coffee table... lol


You saying the power is cut on corners with stability manager off? I never noticed that, the Evo X does have a advanced yaw control with active LSD's, plus the GT5P version is the SST (dual clutch) which I agree makes the car rather boring. I actually find it a little too twichy on the straights.

Have a go, take the X for a lap of Eiger and through the chicanes it just dies. No accleration at all, but a still speed. Its really weird tbh. I truth, its the only car that doe's it, and I dont think it being the SST version helps much. Still, would be nice if it would break traction once in a while without resorting to the hand brake...


Oh yeah you have tried Standard, I have used standard physics a few times and I agree it isn't as good as GT4, feels much more watered down which allows you to do stupid maneuvers not even close to possible in real life.

That is true, the TT just seemed to go full pelt into a corner, with no consideration for entry speed... still, like the title says, I'm still not convinced. To be fair though, I had similar reservations about the 'demo' we had for GT4 (I've forgotten what it was called now), and that turned out well. Might just be me...

 

[Jay]

That was also called Prologue

 

[niky]

I actually have three GT4 Prologue titles... GT5 Prologue is the best Prologue I've bought so far...

The arcadey kick you get from 3 is gone, but in Standard Physics, you still get some of that... Standard is lots of fun for whinging around on the track...

 

[Boffin]

I'm really sorry you feel that way...I couldn't imagine being unhappy with Granturismo..I'd be like me being dissapointed in a permanent feature of my child...if i had one.

I feel standard physics are pretty much like GT4 and I love the new ones because you can drift - even in races. In my mind, the EVOX is the most responsive car in the game - but just plain unfun. The cooperS is an absolute hoot to drive.
I can'r really see why don't like the new game. What track do you usually drive on?
One reason that I initialy found it unresponsive is that I was using bumper view instead of interior view. Interior view is better though because to can see the process of turing.

 

[Raitziger]

Only thing i would want is physics(option at least) more towards enthusia professional racing or LFS. They have made physics better after every update, but still im using a PS2 game as comparison standard :|

 

[toni_cro]

EVO X feels heavy because it is a heavy car in real life SST version weighs i think 1500kg which is a lot and more than EVO IX
in pro mode its just more real and playing on d-pad sucks imo try sticks aor even better get yourself a wheel really only with the wheel you can see why GT is as good as it gets in video games

 

[scleeve]

Actually the Evo X is even heavier than that in real life, the manual is a fat bursting 1560kg, the SST a whopping 1590kg !!

I have a mate with a brand new white manual Evo X FQ330 (324bhp), and it doesn't feel that quick. Left him for dead in my old (now sold) Pulsar Gti-R (tuned to 330bhp) many times on track days becuase I was nearly 400kg lighter! Still quick around corners, but modern Evo's seriously need to be tuned/remapped (doesn't cost that much to get to 380/400) to live up to their old reputation.

I'll be up for racing completely stock cars against each other in GT5P, if they ever put it in the events, especially if they use the fresh stock tyres as recommended in the manual in such an on-line event.

I know what your saying about getting bored with GT5P, I find, even with my decent setup (G25 etc always setup ready), using H pattern with clutch, and making it as hard as possible with N3 or S1 tyres, pro etc i'm getting bored with it after an hour or so and put it off now for something else, I couldn't get off the damn thing when I first had the setup. It is realistic and amazing fun, but my session times in playing the game have certainly dropped, I need more cars and tracks to dabble with, but lets not forget it is only proloque and we can't expect anymore else.

I love Ferrari Challenge too, so Supercar Challenge in June will hopefully fill the gap before we all lose months/years of our lives in the full GT5 very late this year/early next year.

 

[Peter]

When I turned 5, i got myself a ps1. I was exited beyond words. That ps1 was my first game ever and it started something. My first game ever was Gran Turismo 1. It is why i like cars how i do today. I played that game for hours of the days for a very long time. I was obsessed with it.

A year later, i got Gran Turismo 2. I was stunned at the car count and the physics for a game of its type. Over 600 cars and rally racing.

When i got my ps2, i was so exited about it. I loved my mom so much for it. The same year, i got Gran Turismo 3. I almost fainted at the graphics and gameplay and physics of this. I loved Gran Turismo with a passion now and would never stop playing it.

Gran Turismo 4 finally came out and i was killed by the fantastic physics and gameplay. The large margin of cars from brands i never knew until then which i adore today(Pagani etc). Tracks which were simply the best. GT4 picked up where all the others left off and it did prettey damn good!!!

2 years of playing GT4 made it get boring and in 2008 I got my playstation 3(i wanted a laptop lol). I heard of Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and said"i'll just wait for the full game". I lost patience and got GT5P a few months later as my first ps3 game(except for motor storm that came with it which sucked). I was dead already before i finally slipped that new CD in that black shell. I loved GT5P like no other GT ever made and if this is just a taste then i cant start to try imagine imagining what Gran turismo 5 will be like.

That was my story.

 

[Mad Matt]

I've played the GT series since the beginning too. However I feel GT5P spec III is a step forward, while still not perfect in many areas.

For a demo/prologue I've found it good value for money, in that I'm still playing it now.

Coming back to the physics: I posted in another thread about racing a pre-facelift MR2 Mk3 in GT4 and how I couldn't get it to seriously over-steer at Tskuba, despite it's real life reputation for being a bit "lively". I feel GT5P has addressed some of these problems (I normally play with a wheel but ran GT4 with the pad when I played it the other day).

On the other hand GT5P, perhaps because of the better graphics, feels a bit sterile and there are some elements of that in the physics. I've read good things about Ferrari Challenge in terms of force feedback and have now ordered it, so we shall see.

Ive never got round to driving the Mini Copper S in GTP. That could be interesting as I've driven one on track in real life.

 

[TunerFocus]

Try drifting online.

 

[mu22stang]

ST-2, you are not alone. But I don't think the physics are boring, I think sitting in your living room mimicing racing is boring, when you compare it to driving in reality. Whether or not the game accurately portrays the discrete nuances of a cars performance, the sense of speed, g-forces, and the thrill of actually racing are completely lost. The tire engine needs series work, but the physics is getting closer and closer to a simulation. However, if you're driving with the pad and you think the game is boring, get a wheel. You'll know why when you get it...

 

[reaperman]

I've noticed that GT4 cars turn in easier and lose speed quicker when sliding making them more forgiving compared to GT5P cars. Is this the difference I wonder?

And which is correct? Maybe I should search up a physics thread, but I get the feeling PD doesn't put out any info on their physics.

 

[Jay]

Maybe I should search up a physics thread, but I get the feeling PD doesn't put out any info on their physics.

There is plenty threads about the physics, use the search function.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/search.php?searchid=2737774

 

[ST-2]

I've noticed that GT4 cars turn in easier and lose speed quicker when sliding making them more forgiving compared to GT5P cars. Is this the difference I wonder?

And which is correct? Maybe I should search up a physics thread, but I get the feeling PD doesn't put out any info on their physics.

Yep, thats exactly what it is. Couldn't put my finger on it until a few minutes ago. But GT5P cars seem like they don't want to turn into a corner until you've got the D-pad or stick pushed so hard your thumb hurts. They also suffer from snap oversteer, something thats been made worse since the last update. When cars are oversteering, they seem to travel forwards, more than sideways, the momentum pushing the front of the car towards the armco rather than straighting up... which is not realistic as cars do not do this in real life. I've also noticed a pin ball effect, where the cars snap into oversteer, you correct the slide and then have to correct it the other way etc. Again, this doe's not happen in real life, although, tbh, that might just be because I'm using a controller.

 

[clacksman]

I've also noticed a pin ball effect, where the cars snap into oversteer, you correct the slide and then have to correct it the other way etc. Again, this doe's not happen in real life, although, tbh, that might just be because I'm using a controller.

I have this issue as well, using a controller.

There's a 'steering algorithm' in the game, designed to mimic the turning of the wheel when using the stick to steer. This causes a delay between your input, and the action happening. Put GT4 in, drive a convertible car in chase cam, you'll see it better. Basically, you can get the stick from full-left to full-right much faster than you could move a wheel the equivalent.

 

[mu22stang]

They also suffer from snap oversteer, something thats been made worse since the last update. When cars are oversteering, they seem to travel forwards, more than sideways, the momentum pushing the front of the car towards the armco rather than straighting up... which is not realistic as cars do not do this in real life. I've also noticed a pin ball effect, where the cars snap into oversteer, you correct the slide and then have to correct it the other way etc. Again, this doe's not happen in real life, although, tbh, that might just be because I'm using a controller.

It may be because you are using a controller. But, cars do indeed snap oversteer in reality. What tires are you using? If you are using S tires you will definately get embellished cornering abilities and ridiculous snap oversteer because these tires have a disproportional grip levels from longitudinal to lateral. Don't try too hard to compare IRL physics and the game physics without a wheel though, you'll go crazy. Not to mention, the game reads inputs from the two controller types differently - apples to oranges to...um, grapes.

 

[L_Hamilton]

Welcome, ST-2!

I have nothing to really contribute but to say that you can feel the car better in GT5 then in GT4. You feel like your one with your car. The physics are a huge step up from where they ever were. The graphics are breath taking, and the selected sounds of cars(they really need to fix that). The sound of the Zo6 for example is simply AWESOME.

Just give PD some room. When it finally comes out this year, we'll all have no lives. So enjoy the outside while you can because you'll be stuck to your chair for a loooooooooong while.

 

[ST-2]

It may be because you are using a controller. But, cars do indeed snap oversteer in reality. What tires are you using? If you are using S tires you will definately get embellished cornering abilities and ridiculous snap oversteer because these tires have a disproportional grip levels from longitudinal to lateral. Don't try too hard to compare IRL physics and the game physics without a wheel though, you'll go crazy. Not to mention, the game reads inputs from the two controller types differently - apples to oranges to...um, grapes.

Hummm... the game seems to over-rate the amount of snap-oversteer we get though. I mainly use S2/S3 tyres, simply because it feels more organic and R rated tyres tend to make the car corner in stages rather than one simple movement (if that makes any sense). I used to have a 2000 Lotus Elise, once I fitted some rather cheap tyres to the back and I would get snap-oversteer on alot of roundabouts, but it was progessive, GT5P just snaps regardless of how much/or how little throttle is applied. I know its sounds like all I'm doing is moaning about the game, but thats only because I want it to be perfect... and make sure I'm not going insane lol

Welcome, ST-2!

I have nothing to really contribute but to say that you can feel the car better in GT5 then in GT4. You feel like your one with your car. The physics are a huge step up from where they ever were. The graphics are breath taking, and the selected sounds of cars(they really need to fix that). The sound of the Zo6 for example is simply AWESOME.

Just give PD some room. When it finally comes out this year, we'll all have no lives. So enjoy the outside while you can because you'll be stuck to your chair for a loooooooooong while.

Thanks for the welcome. I agree the sounds have improved, the graphics are stunning too. I think there are better overall physics to GT5P over GT4, but the steering delay/heaviness is annoying when using a controller.

 

[Tenacious D]

Then why not slow down the response, so that it takes a few seconds to go from wheel lock to wheel lock? I wouldn't be using the word "realistic" too strongly when you're talking about racing with a controller, because there's nothing realistic about that. As said above, get a Logitech wheel. You'll be glad you did.

 

[JDMKING13]

Hummm... the game seems to over-rate the amount of snap-oversteer we get though. I mainly use S2/S3 tyres, simply because it feels more organic and R rated tyres tend to make the car corner in stages rather than one simple movement (if that makes any sense). I used to have a 2000 Lotus Elise, once I fitted some rather cheap tyres to the back and I would get snap-oversteer on alot of roundabouts, but it was progessive, GT5P just snaps regardless of how much/or how little throttle is applied. I know its sounds like all I'm doing is moaning about the game, but thats only because I want it to be perfect... and make sure I'm not going insane lol



Thanks for the welcome. I agree the sounds have improved, the graphics are stunning too. I think there are better overall physics to GT5P over GT4, but the steering delay/heaviness is annoying when using a controller.

GTP with a controller is a completly different game when you play it with a wheel, and your right with the turning in stages, but i blame it on the controller. If you get a wheel my friend, I promise you your face will look like this and you will scream (OOOO BABY!!)

 

[Jay]

also noticed a pin ball effect, where the cars snap into oversteer, you correct the slide and then have to correct it the other way etc. Again, this doe's not happen in real life, although, tbh, that might just be because I'm using a controller.

Yeah I don't get that with the wheel.

 

[L_Hamilton]

I think it's time to get the Logitech wheel. Either the older version of the DF-GT, the DFP, or the G25.

Like everyone else said, you'll be glad you did and it'll be a whole nother game. I experienced that when I played gt3 nonstop with a controller and moved over to the DFP right when GT4 was released.

 

[myke6699]

Hello everyone. I've been hovering around these forums for a while now, and have finally decided to sign up.

I'd like to ask a question though... personally I'm still not completely 100% happy with GT5P. I know its only a 'demo' to tease us until the full blooded GT5 comes roaring onto our tv's. I'm not complaining about the usual stuff either, like lack of damage, computer AI etc, but the more basic stuff.

When GT2 (the first GT series I played) landed on my PS, I was obessed with it. I knew every car, every track in infinate detail, I loved it! Then GT3 arrived, again, brilliant. The lack of cars disappointed abit, but the graphics and level of detail were stunning. GT4? Masterstroke! Seriously, the best game ever developed imo.

So, with my mouth dry waiting for GT5, the prologue seemed like what the doctor ordered. PS3 purchased, mainly for this game lol. I sat myself in front of the tv, ready to loose myself in the fuel dreched, tyre smoking simulator that would kick arse! And... boom! Disappointment.

Why? Personally, GT5P feels heavy. The controls feel clumsy somehow, which is strange considering its the same set-up as all previous GT's. I just dont feel involved in the process, it gets boring after 3 laps. None of the cars seem to respond with light instant action of the GT3 and GT4 series. I know its a new engine running the show, but it feels like a massive step backwards. The latest update didn't help either imo, making the cars slide less elegently. They now feel like bricks skidding on ice.

A prime example is the new Evo X. A car that should have razor sharp responses, should drift with the poise of an ice skater. And its boring. Its got no challenge to it. It feels like the traction and stability control is left on, power is cut in corners, its a mess.

However, I think I might have seen some light... I had a real good time in the Audi TT today, and the Mini Cooper-S... but... they were in Standard pyhsics mode for a change. It felt like GT of old, but they didn't feel 100% right, no kick or sliding. Somehow, I think Prologue needs to be somewhere between the standard and professional modes to have a good balance for involvment.

Dont get me wrong, I love the Z06 on professional settings, the BMW 135i is a blast, the M3 a riot and the Mini Cooper-S and Focus ST are both good fun too. But cars like the RX8, Nissan 350Z, Evo X and Integra DC5 R are just weird, and dont feel right imo.

I'd love to see everyone elses opinion on the matter.

However, I must say that PD have done a brilliant job with the graphics, it looks amazing. Breth taking even... the white needs toning down a little tho imo, might be my tv tho

Thanks - Mark aka ST-2

I would say that unlike GT4, GT5 prologue is more optimised for FFB wheel. What you need to do is to beg and borrow a decent FFB wheel off someone (I have the Logitech G25 which works splendidly). If you still insist on using the controller, familiarize yourself with the new physics and then move up to professional mode. Start eliminating the driving aids or any steering correction system. Look through the in-game menu and look for tires recommendation for each of the cars and use them accordingly.

 

[ST-2]

I would say that unlike GT4, GT5 prologue is more optimised for FFB wheel. What you need to do is to beg and borrow a decent FFB wheel off someone (I have the Logitech G25 which works splendidly). If you still insist on using the controller, familiarize yourself with the new physics and then move up to professional mode. Start eliminating the driving aids or any steering correction system. Look through the in-game menu and look for tires recommendation for each of the cars and use them accordingly.

I use professional mode anyway, and the only driver aid I have on is the ABS at level 1. I think I'm going to have to start looking for a wheel lol.

I think it's time to get the Logitech wheel. Either the older version of the DF-GT, the DFP, or the G25.

Like everyone else said, you'll be glad you did and it'll be a whole nother game. I experienced that when I played gt3 nonstop with a controller and moved over to the DFP right when GT4 was released.

Yeah I don't get that with the wheel.

GTP with a controller is a completly different game when you play it with a wheel, and your right with the turning in stages, but i blame it on the controller. If you get a wheel my friend, I promise you your face will look like this and you will scream (OOOO BABY!!)

Thanks guys, I'll look into getting a G25 as I'm told this is the best for GT5P. Any ideas on set ups, as I dont think the big racing seat frame will go down too well with my girlfriend, and I dont like the idea of balancing it on the coffee table either... lol

 

[L_Hamilton]

I use professional mode anyway, and the only driver aid I have on is the ABS at level 1. I think I'm going to have to start looking for a wheel lol.







Thanks guys, I'll look into getting a G25 as I'm told this is the best for GT5P. Any ideas on set ups, as I dont think the big racing seat frame will go down too well with my girlfriend, and I dont like the idea of balancing it on the coffee table either... lol

Here's my setup. Simple and it works.

Here's a good link to other great ideas. ----> Linky

 

[ST-2]

Here's my setup. Simple and it works.

Here's a good link to other great ideas. ----> Linky

Wow! Looks awesome, some of those set-ups are really good too. I've seen a common metal support of the G25, without the racing seat, anyone know where you can buy it? Sorry for taking this a little off topic btw...

 

[DeolTheBeast]

Just go out buy a RWD car, turn the aids off and get back into the REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR.
GT4 is still my favourite PS2 game. I loved everything about it.
Compared to GT5 in Pro physics you realise GT5 is a step up and therefore earns its tag of The "Real Driving Simulator".