Suicide

[Ibonibo]

NOT ME

Ok, i need to get this out because i struggled the whole day with it.

A guy i know, which was a very sympatic person, and could have become a friend, took his life today.

I'm not puzzeled why he did it, there were a multitude of reason which could have led to it, the main beeing "Herzschmerz" (aka love) and "Weltschmerz".

What i need to get out is the discussion, if someone does it in the purpose to hurt the remaining people, or if they are just casualties.

I believe that in general a person commits suicide when his personal pain grows so strong that it excedes the pain they cause for the remaining.

Sure there are people who commit suicide to hurt the people that hurt them first.

My mother and brother believe that he also wanted to hurt his exwife. That why he called his wife just before he shot himself.

I believe this:

He was a fool in love (he was really in love with her) with that woman, but she wanted a break. Problem was they owned a business together they just created. So he saw her everyday and could not find closure.
Than the business was a big financial burden he took.
Yesterday was his day off.
I think he began to dig in those dark thoughts all alone in his flat for a whole day, probably the whole night too.
Probably had a drink or two.
He surly thought about taking his life for some time, but always found a little hope to not do it.
But a whole day with those thoughts without seeing somebody, dug him deep enough into this that in the morning he was ready to take his life.
Now why did he call his ex just before shooting him self?
Maybe he hoped for something or just wanted to hear her voice a last time.
But i don't think he did it to hurt his ex. He loved her so much it ripped him apart.

That is my thought.

Sorry for the lenghty post but I really need to get it out.

What do you think about the

What i need to get out is the discussion, if someone does it in the purpose to hurt the remaining people, or if they are just casualties.

Please let's talk about that and not that people who commit suicide are weak or stupid...
We already had this discussion and it will not help.

Thanks for your contribution

 

[blaaah]

A view:
The conditions that he experienced are things that can happen to anyone. So they should not be expressly considered things that made him commit suicide. What there could be is a mental illness that causes the suicidal thoughts and reactions. So this means it is not so absolute, even if he did do it to hurt others, his choice to do that was due to the illness and not due to his focused hatred using a stable and calculating mind.
Are you looking for a reason? Or you need a reason that he did this? The casualties are casualties, and that he did it deliberately to influence or not should not effect the nature of the casualty as the sadness is the same.

 

[Ibonibo]

Objectively :No do not need to put reason behind this, because suicide rarely is a reasonable act.

On the other side, someone (in this case me) always look to understand such an act

But true what you said. I thought about ithe illness, but when talking to him he didn't seem depressive, just a little down, because of the recent breakup.
But there are people who can hide that pretty good...

But i posted it here because : writing things down helps , and to see a larger vision on the subject

 

[blaaah]

Objectively :No do not need to put reason behind this, because suicide rarely is a reasonable act.

On the other side, someone (in this case me) always look to understand such an act

But true what you said. I thought about ithe illness, but when talking to him he didn't seem depressive, just a little down, because of the recent breakup.
But there are people who can hide that pretty good...

But i posted it here because : writing things down helps , and to see a larger vision on the subject

Yeah, you said it, you can't tell when someone will kill themselves. You can usually tell when someone is depressed or down.
I knew someone who killed themselves, I did not expect it, but I did know from sensing it that he was down/depressed. But sometimes people will not know or sense anything dark brewing in the depths of the mind. Depressed people can still experience joy and jokes and laugh until they lose their breath or collapse on the floor, the mind will still be torturing them somewhere or waiting to hit them again.

 

[Ibonibo]

Yes.
Sometimes they make references to suicide, or no meaning in the life nomore.
But i didn't knew him that well yet that he would tell me so very private thougths.

Now that i'm was thinking : He said once that he didn't know how he should continue now on his own alone.
But it was in a tone that wasn't alarming or anything.
If this wouldn't have happend i wouldn't have recalled that because it seemed trivial.

Thanks for posting thou
I hope he rests in peace casue it was a good guy

 

[Dotini]

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/3-students-die-after-being-hypnotized-by-principal/

Three Florida high school students are dead after being hypnotized by their school principal in Sarasota County, one in a car accident and two by suicide. Principal George Kenney is believed to have hypnotized up to 75 people, including students, members of the school staff and their children. Sarasota County School District officials repeatedly warned Kenney to stop the practice, which the principal insists was only done in the interest of helping students to be motivated and focused on school work and sports.

Can this be cause and effect, or is it mere coincidence?

 

[Ibonibo]

The art of suggestion can be very strong, especially on people who are on a weak point of their lifes.
I know therapist, psy's who have more problems then their patients.

I don't say that every of those psychology therapies are crap, because alone talking can have a strong healing effect. But follow advices blindly is always dangerous.

I ahve a friend who followed a hypno-therapy, and the guy told him, if he wouldn't get hepl he would commit suicide at one point of his life.
He never thought about that before, but that phrase haunted him for months.

Also a common mistake is confusing depression and anxiety. if the anxiety is very strong and lasted for a long time, it haas some of the same effects as depression. Giving those people medicamentation is often the wrong way as all those can be highly addictive.

So as for your story, I would say it can be cause and effect, depending of what he suggested to those students

 

[3spddrft]

I'm a Senior Psychology student and I'm diagnosed with bipolar disorder and ADD and have been hospitalized because I was going to commit suicide.

It's unnatural for anyone to end their own life as the point of life is to survive. While the relationship can act as a surface level motivation or trigger, it just happened to be the event that triggered his death. Any number of events in his life could have caused this.

There is grief when loved ones die and the question of what their life could have been. It's not appropriate to blame oneself because the choice was their own and influenced by poor mental health. I would not call myself a casualty of anyone's suicide. My grief is my own and a demonstration of how I cared for that person.

 

[homeforsummer]

I can't add a great deal to this though I have known two good friends in the past who've considered suicide, and one who OD'd on prescription drugs and thankfully, survived. Both are now leading very happy lives.

It leads me onto a point though - I recall hearing that two people who survived attempted suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate bridge were subsequently interviewed.

Both said the same thing:

As soon as they jumped, they regretted their decision. Few are lucky enough to live to regret it.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

A friend of my parents took his life recently.
Suffering with cancer, he was recently given a very short time remain living.

I had some kidney issues a while ago and I can understand that permanent pain can lead to desperate acts. I was far from those, but it started to be an option on the list.

=======================

I know several adolescent suicide attempts, sometimes not finding your place in society can lead to desperate acts.

=======================

Finally a lot of accidents with youth drivers during the weekend could possibly be linked to suicide. Not having the social acceptance they expected, in a less controlled state of mind, they take a hasty deadly decision. On this I found very little information, how do you see a loss of control versus a sudden change of mind, etc...

====================

I'll come back with my last recurring theme: Digambara monks

Although according to the article I might have the wrong, however related, group.

Many monks starved themselves to death, following the example of Mahavira himself.

Out of ideology they starve themselves, believing that their useful life is limited.
At a moment they decide that the things they destroy feeding themselves are at that stage more valuable then their own life, so starving themselves is the better choice.

=======================

The last example is an unselfish suicide, which I understand best.
For the others they should realize with how little material things you can live and how much you can give. So at the point of suicide, consider a radical life, that might not be concentrated on you, but on what you can do for others. You might be surprised what a joy that can be ...

 

[sumbrownkid]

^But commiting suicide was the cheap way out. I'm sorry for their loss, but if he didn't commit suicide and instead spent whatever time he had making amends, and be with his family/friends, he would be remembered for who he was, not how he went.

Suicide in this case was perhaps selfish, and I say perhaps because I don't know the full story.

 

[Villain]

If you are in unbearable physical pain which cannot be helped by medicine - so much that the extent reaches a point whereas you are unable to find any happiness of any sort - then suicide can be thought of as a rational course of action.

Emotional pain, extreme failure, etc. are all things which can be dealt with without resorting to suicide. Suicide as a form of protest and/or expression is also misguided and irrational. I won't label it as "selfish" or "easy way out" because those labels deserve case by case application (although I think there will be a large percentage where labels like that apply).

 

[W3H5]

My take on suicide is that a person who commits the act is adamant about doing it. The human will to live is one of the strongest subconscious things driving us. To override that force takes considerable will power.

I also think that it is a very selfish act. When someone commits the act successfully they're dead and gone, the people who remain are the ones who suffer.

I've been bi-polar most of my adult life like my fathers has been. Serious depressions are caused by this but it never results in acts of suicide. I've considered it and would imagine a vast majority of people have. Actually doing it is something that must surely take immense conviction.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

What do you think about the

What i need to get out is the discussion, if someone does it in the purpose to hurt the remaining people, or if they are just casualties.

Please let's talk about that and not that people who commit suicide are weak or stupid...
We already had this discussion and it will not help.

Thanks for your contribution

I think we are drifting a bit away from the above and a bit much to "weak or stupid".

Selfish I saw as not wanting to hurt but wanting to solve their own issues, I do understand that some people do it to "punish".

The Police, Can't stand losing you:

And you don't care so I won't cry
But you'll be sorry when I'm dead
And all this guilt will be on your head
I guess you'd call it suicide
But I'm too full to swallow my pride

Guess that answers the question, it is general knowledge that people might want to prove a point.

I had the girl of one of my parents friends, who had it happen to her. She dumped her boyfriend, he called her up afterwards and committed suicide.

Although everyone stated it was his choice to take his life, she was not involved, that girl really was upset for years about this (probably still is).
I never got to talk about it with her, but I see that people get hurt when other people die, no matter how it happens.

 

[Keef]

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/3-students-die-after-being-hypnotized-by-principal/

Three Florida high school students are dead after being hypnotized by their school principal in Sarasota County, one in a car accident and two by suicide. Principal George Kenney is believed to have hypnotized up to 75 people, including students, members of the school staff and their children. Sarasota County School District officials repeatedly warned Kenney to stop the practice, which the principal insists was only done in the interest of helping students to be motivated and focused on school work and sports.

Can this be cause and effect, or is it mere coincidence?

I'm still puzzled by the idea of hypnosis to begin with. If some doctor looked at me and said, "Now I'm going to hypnotize you," I'd like look at him and say, "Whatever." And then leave. Because I think it's stupid.

Maybe it's coincidence. Maybe the principal drugged them. Maybe the kids were standing up for all the students at that school and took their lives bravely, so as to call attention to the principal and force him to stop his practice. Any of those are more plausible than the suicides being caused by hypnosis.