Surround Reciever/Game Hookup Questions

[Jedi2016]

This doesn't relate directly to the PS2, which is why I put it here instead.

First off, my Entertainment System, as it relates to my questions:

Sony STR-K750P 5.1 Reciever, supports DTS, DD5.1, DD Pro Logic II, DCS.. da woiks. Includes full six-speaker setup (five surround + subwoofer)
Sony Playstation 2, first-gen U.S. release (bought on release day), SCPH-30001
Nintendo Gamecube, not sure of the model number

4-way switchbox, currently used only to split VCR/GameCube.. I ran out of inputs on the back of the reciever.

The question has recently come up in the GT4 forum regarding surround sound. I've dug around a bit and figured out that the PS2 supports Dolby Pro Logic II, and DTS 5.1, but not Dolby Digital 5.1 (in-game, at any rate, it can play Dolby Digital DVDs through the optical out).

Now, at this point, I do NOT have an optical cable for the PS2. Quite simply I never saw the need for one, but I'm starting to rethink that position, and will base my decision largely on whatever information I recieve here. At the moment, the audio from my PS2 is being run directly into the Reciever through the included RCA A/V cable (video, left, right).

There are several games out there, on both GC and PS2, that support Dolby Pro Logic II. In theory, this is a way for the system to encode five channels of audio through only two channels of output. The center and rear channels are "tucked away" into the main stereo left and right channels. At least, this is how I understand it. If I'm mistaken, feel free to correct me.

One game that supports Pro Logic II is Burnout 3, which I recently purchased.

Now... the Reciever has the ability to automatically detect the incoming signals it recieves, and decode them accordingly. However, when I set Burnout 3 to use Pro Logic II, the reciever does nothing... it still behaves as though it's recieving only two channels of sound.

Now, I can force the issue and tell the reciever to decode Pro Logic II. At which point, the game "comes alive", so to speak, playing through all five speakers.

My first question is pretty simple. In the above situation, am I actually hearing the Pro Logic II audio from the game, or is the reciever simply doing a "best guess" based on the two channels it's recieving? While the sound is quite immersive, it's difficult to tell if it's "real" Dolby Surround, whether the sounds I'm hearing from the rear channel are supposed to be there. For example, I drove a few races, but I wasn't able to hear my opponents coming up behind me, which should be possible with Dolby Surround.

I suppose I should also ask whether Dolby Surround and Dolby Pro Logic II are the same thing. (I'm not referring to Dolby Digital 5.1, but the "phantom" surround encoded in two-channel audio).

The GameCube behaves pretty much the same way.. I can play a Dolby Pro Logic II game (in this case, Rogue Leader, the first DPL2 game), but it's likewise difficult to tell if the rear channels are really the rear channels. Like the PS2, the GameCube is connected (through the switchbox) by only the included two audio cables. And like the PS2, the reciever does not recognize a DPL2 signal, I have to force it to decode it as DPL2.

I suppose the grand argument can be summed up pretty easily... For the PS2, is it required to have a digital optical cable to take advantage of DPL2? Or is my reciever accurately decoding the stereo signal into surround? Even though I have to tell it to?

The GT4 official site does indeed list Dolby Surround Pro Logic II and Dolby Digital Pro Logic II. And that is one game that I definitely want to experience in more than two channels. Do I need to break down and buy an optical cable to use that feature? I could, easily enough.. the reciever's optical input is still free (the DVD uses Coax), and it can be selected to play alongside the incoming Video2 video signal (where the PS2 is currently connected).

Which brings up one last question... if I got an optical cable, should I disconnect the stereo cables? Does standard game audio play through the optical cable regardless of the game setup?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[TB]

I have a Sony STRDE895. It is a 6.1 receiver that also decodes DTS, DD, etc. I have my PS2 connected through the optical jack. The receiver is set to decode whatever signal it is sent (IMO the only way a receiver should be set up). I just tried Wipeout Fusion (Dolby Digital), Prince of Persia (Dolby Pro Logic II), and Final Fantasy 8 (Dolby Surround). All of them were incorrect. They were sent out as PCM. When I had this problem with my DVD player, it was because it was set up to only send out a 2-channel signal. Once that was corrected, it has worked perfectly since. I am not aware of a setting other than Optical Out ON<-->Off for the PS2, but I might be wrong.

Since none of the games I tried worked, I then put in Pirates of the Caribbean, which sounded great in both DD and DTS.

Looks like I'm adding more questions than I'm answering, but I can tell you this: If your receiver is like mine, the Optical input will override the RCA jacks.

 

[Jedi2016]

Actually, you were more helpful than you'd think. It means I'm not the only one losing my mind.. hehe.

In flipping through the PS2 manual (yes, I still have it.. hehe), it does mention further audio settings for "Dolby Digital ON" and "DTS ON", although, like the optical cable itself, I was under the impression these settings were for DVD playback. Maybe worth a look, since you've already got the optical hooked up?

 

[Jedi2016]

Actually, there is one thing you could test out with the optical cable for me, based on a recent series of tests I did with Burnout 3 and GT3.

I had the game set to Pro Logic II, and as I raced, I switched back and forth between normal Stereo and the Pro Logic II mode. On my reciever, this is done by pushing the "AFD" auto-select button to go between the four modes it has, which are "Auto" (which plays it as 2-channel), Pro Logic, Pro Logic II Movie (recommended for games), and Pro Logic II Music. It normally sits on the "Auto" mode and plays the games back in stereo mode, using only the front speakers and the subwoofer.

Anyway, on GT3 (which I was driving for the hell of it, not particularly to test the audio, although the opportunity presented itself.. hehe).. On GT3, which does not have Dolby, when I switched to Pro Logic II, while it did spread it out over the five speakers (not very well), it also sound very "tinny". It had routed quite a bit of the sound to the center speaker (just a tiny thing sitting on my entertainment center), and seemed to cut out the subwoofer entirely. Basically, it sounded like 5.1 crap. Which is expected, since the game doesn't have any Dolby modes.

So I did the same test on Burnout 3. Except that this game DOES have a Dolby mode in the audio settings, which was active. And, just like GT3, while it did spread it out over all five speakers (a bit better than GT did), it also lost nearly all of the low-end, like it was no longer sending anything to the subwoofer. So it was more "immersive", but not as impactful. And since that game is all about impact.. hehe.

So if you could (you or anyone else who wishes to help), could you run a Pro Logic II game in both stereo and Dolby (on the reciever) and see if there's a difference in sound quality and subwoofer action?

On a side note, I did some digging on the Dolby site, and they recommend the digital cable in their little section on "how to set up your home theater" for gaming. I'm assuming that the Pro Logic II should work with the analog cables, since a guy on the IGN forums said it would, and the GameCube, which also has some DPL2 games, doesn't even have a digital-out, only the two analog cables. Dolby's site also said that if your reciever auto-detects a stereo signal, to go ahead and manually turn on Pro Logic II to decode it, since the Pro Logic is already in the incoming signal, it just wasn't recognized. So, apparently, the system will be able to decode it properly.

It's this loss in subwoofer action that has me worried, though..

 

[TB]

As per your request , I ran Prince of Persia in both AFD Auto and PLII. The bass drops off slightly in PLII, but I don't think it's enough to be concerned about. IMHO, I think it sounds best in Neo:6 Cinema, but I don't think your receiver has that option. Also, I'm not sure why I didn't think of this earlier, but the only reason you would need an optical cable would be for DTS or DD, since a digital signal can't be sent over an analog cable.

Of course Dolby is going to suggest that you use an optical cable whenever you can. I would also, but sometimes it's isn't worth the added expense. And yes, PLII will work over the analog cable or the optical, Just not the other way around, like I stated previously.

You may or may not have seen this on Dolby's site

Sony’s PlayStation® 2 is capable of several different kinds of audio formats. The two most commonly found are Dolby® Digital (5.1-channel) and PCM (two-channel). Dolby Digital is used during cut scenes on some games, such as Metal Gear Solid 2 and The Bouncer. In most games, however, the PlayStation 2 outputs PCM audio, which is an older stereo audio format used on compact discs. Because it requires a tremendous amount of processing power to create Dolby Digital during game play, the vast majority of PS2 games still use stereo. However, a new technology, Dolby Pro Logic® II, allows five-channel sound to be transmitted using two-channel stereo. Pro Logic II is based on Dolby Surround, which was only capable of transmitting four channels. Now, Pro Logic II enables your PS2 to use all 5.1 channels in your system.

Eventually, we'll figure all this crap out. 👍

 

[TB]

In flipping through the PS2 manual (yes, I still have it.. hehe), it does mention further audio settings for "Dolby Digital ON" and "DTS ON", although, like the optical cable itself, I was under the impression these settings were for DVD playback. Maybe worth a look, since you've already got the optical hooked up?

I also have and looked at my PS2 manual and it appears the DD On<-->Off and DTS On<-->Off are indeed only for DVD playback.

 

[FidoMcCokefiend]

You have to get an optical cable, period.

RCA jacks = 2 channel which the reciever can matrix into 5 channels, the optical delivers 5.1 channels.

When I play GTA:SA with the RCA cables into my Pioneer on DPLII the surround channels are weak, when I use the optical cable it sounds 50x better.

 

[RoyalStuff]

You have to get an optical cable, period.

RCA jacks = 2 channel which the reciever can matrix into 5 channels, the optical delivers 5.1 channels.

When I play GTA:SA with the RCA cables into my Pioneer on DPLII the surround channels are weak, when I use the optical cable it sounds 50x better.

My opinion too, get an optical cable and turn Dolby Digital and DTS on. Had mine off for about 3 years (never turned it on...) and believe me, you can tell the difference...

 

[RicBrazil]

Eventually, we'll figure all this crap out. 👍

Hi! I´ve got a Sony STR-K870P receiver (DD 5.1 EX, DTS ES, DPLII), and I´m also using the optical cable in my PS2 (with the digital out option on), but only MGS2:Substance plays in DD 5.1 in some cut scenes. I have The X-Files: Resist or Serve and when I turn on the DPLII option the sound, like in any other PS2 game, is decoded only in PCM 48 khz (in A.F.D auto mode). Do you guys have figured out a way to make the receiver decode the right signal from the PS2 in other DPLII games (or even in Dolby Surround)?

 

[Solid Lifters]

Hi! I´ve got a Sony STR-K870P receiver (DD 5.1 EX, DTS ES, DPLII), and I´m also using the optical cable in my PS2 (with the digital out option on), but only MGS2:Substance plays in DD 5.1 in some cut scenes. I have The X-Files: Resist or Serve and when I turn on the DPLII option the sound, like in any other PS2 game, is decoded only in PCM 48 khz (in A.F.D auto mode). Do you guys have figured out a way to make the receiver decode the right signal from the PS2 in other DPLII games (or even in Dolby Surround)?

DPLII is NOT digital surround sound. So many people make that mistake, so don't worry too much about it.

DPLII is just like DPL, but with full range rear left and right channels, and a dedicated front channel. It is not digital audio surroud. That's why it still sounds so bad. Heh.

 

[livemusic]

You can only get DPL2 using the PS2 RCA cable. DTS and Dolby Digital require an optical cable.

I recently bought a dvd+home theater combo. It´s a cheap model but supports DTS, Dolby Digital and DPL II. No digital in though, only two RCA's. So I watch movies and concerts directly from the DVD in DTS and Dolby Digital, and my PS2 is connected to it with the RCA cable so I can play games in DPL 2.

And although it´s a cheaper model, the sound quality is excelent and it´s really loud too for my room. I loved it.

 

[slackbladder]

You do get DPLII via optical input from the PS2. Playing GT4 plugged into my JVC via optical and I can choose DPLII (LPCM) and I can hear it quite clearly. The same goes for when I use it on my bigger Pioneer THX certified VSX-1011. Both the Dolby Digital and DPLII icons are lit up.
But certainly Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS can only be heard via optical.

 

[livemusic]

Sorry, that came out wrong. I meant that via a RCA cable you will only be able to get DPL II, not that that is the only way to get it.