Suspension Set Up Help

[kyoo]

Hi all,

New GT6 and former GT5 owner, and real life Mini Cooper and Evo 9 owner here, had some quick questions about the suspension set up.

In real life, it's really easy to set up a car to be loose. You can mess with tire pressures, damping, and of course stiffer rear springs and rear sway bar. Then there's the rear diff, which I've upgraded to get a TON of power on oversteer (no AYC in the USA).

In this game, it seems very very difficult to get a car that inherently understeered stock to no longer understeer - especially the evo, when you yank out the AYC. I've played with spring rates, run the FSB at 1 in the front and RSB at 7 in the back, and still seem to get steady state understeer, even when I (attempt) to trail brake.

Any thoughts on this? The evo in this game feels nothing like the one in real life..

 

[StaryStarego]

Any thoughts on this? The evo in this game feels nothing like the one in real life..

ouch, that was like a dagger to my hearth

+

i'm not nsx driver but im sure as hell in this game it feels nothing like the one in real life

 

[kyoo]

yeah no idea - it just feels so... dull, and not because its a video game, maybe part of it is that the quickness of the steering doesn't really translate over.

anyway though, the general point was that it seems difficult to change a car's inherent handling characteristics in GT, when in reality it should be relatively simple, given the right parts. Just wondering if I am missing anything as far as suspension tuning goes to get the evo to basically be super loose through suspension, not AYC

 

[Motor City Hami]

it seems difficult to change a car's inherent handling characteristics in GT

Yep.

 

[ace004]

As a fellow evo 9 owner I'm very disappointed. I haven't put serious time in tuning one yet, but out of the box the car handles like a pig. The stock US evo understeers at the limit, but it seems to be worse in GT. With modified evos killing time attack records worldwide I hope we can make this car anywhere close to what it represents in real life.

 

[kyoo]

As a fellow evo 9 owner I'm very disappointed. I haven't put serious time in tuning one yet, but out of the box the car handles like a pig. The stock US evo understeers at the limit, but it seems to be worse in GT. With modified evos killing time attack records worldwide I hope we can make this car anywhere close to what it represents in real life.

you're talking about the same circumstances with a mechanical diff right? have you gotten that to even work properly? bc I'm not sure if I have. If you don't care about an accurate reflection of our US cars just jack the AYC to 130 and it'll be loose.

but yea very disappointed in the evo, but about equally disappointed that the game won't let me slap a huge rear bar on and make the car loose

 

[Damo420]

to me this game has no concept of oversteer or turning angle for that matter , a loose agile car :/ you can tune n tune n tune but the game still feels like its just understeer all the time , and the most annoying thing is lift off oversteer .... does PD even know what this is ?

 

[kyoo]

to me this game has no concept of oversteer or turning angle for that matter , a loose agile car :/ you can tune n tune n tune but the game still feels like its just understeer all the time , and the most annoying thing is lift off oversteer .... does PD even know what this is ?

that might just be how your cars generally are. there are some very loose and very neutral cars in the game - the problem is you can't really change their inherent behavior no matter what you do suspension wise.

 

[Damo420]

that might just be how your cars generally are. there are some very loose and very neutral cars in the game - the problem is you can't really change their inherent behavior no matter what you do suspension wise.

sounds like a broke game to me , i mean really the understeer on this game is so over the top its unreal i mean silvia TC car under steers worse than the front wheel drive cars , there is something seriously wrong with gt and really needs to be adressed , cars that naturaly understeer regardless to tuning yeah thats possibly tht type of cars nature but this game has over the top understeer/lack of turning angle in general , i cant believe PD can call this simulated in any shape or form , the front end physics on all cars on this is truley shocking

 

[kyoo]

sounds like a broke game to me , i mean really the understeer on this game is so over the top its unreal i mean silvia TC car under steers worse than the front wheel drive cars , there is something seriously wrong with gt and really needs to be adressed , cars that naturaly understeer regardless to tuning yeah thats possibly tht type of cars nature but this game has over the top understeer/lack of turning angle in general , i cant believe PD can call this simulated in any shape or form , the front end physics on all cars on this is truley shocking

yeah that's basically what I'm saying. it's actually not a new issue, gt5 was like this too, just was hoping either they fixed it by now or I was doing something wrong, but I guess not

 

[Damo420]

yeah that's basically what I'm saying. it's actually not a new issue, gt5 was like this too, just was hoping either they fixed it by now or I was doing something wrong, but I guess not

ye i did notice same thing in gt5 myself ... i dont think its a case of tuning at all but more PD have no idea what there doing as far as front end physics lol honestly really dissapointed in gt and pd :/ and being as forza has gone to even worse depths of hell i think its time to hang up my racing suit and fine a new genre of games

 

[WierD]

Hi all,

New GT6 and former GT5 owner, and real life Mini Cooper and Evo 9 owner here, had some quick questions about the suspension set up.

In real life, it's really easy to set up a car to be loose. You can mess with tire pressures, damping, and of course stiffer rear springs and rear sway bar. Then there's the rear diff, which I've upgraded to get a TON of power on oversteer (no AYC in the USA).

In this game, it seems very very difficult to get a car that inherently understeered stock to no longer understeer - especially the evo, when you yank out the AYC. I've played with spring rates, run the FSB at 1 in the front and RSB at 7 in the back, and still seem to get steady state understeer, even when I (attempt) to trail brake.

Any thoughts on this? The evo in this game feels nothing like the one in real life..

wat are your camber settings like

 

[Highlandor]

Any thoughts on this? The evo in this game feels nothing like the one in real life..

I dont own an Evo, but have been racing them all through GT5 Prologue and GT5, a quick answer to your questions:

1) Either Mitsubishi upset Kaz or Subaru gave him something very sweet because the Evo's were a nightmare all through GT5, especially the premium ones.

First gen physics on GT5, it was possible to run a custom diff (instead of AYC) and this made a big difference, Polyphony didn't get the AYC right at all, with a horrible wobble (whilst trying to drive straight) being a nasty side affect of changing the AYC to deal with extra power.

The best Evos were the RS' and the GSR VIII MR - these were the only ones that vaguely gave any kind of "fight" to it's natural rivals.

2) You could tune the understeer out, it wasn't that difficult, but the laptimes were just not there. Things got even worse when the 2nd gen physics came round about a year ago.

What happens in real life often doesn't apply "across the board" in GT tuning as Polyphony has made a total screw up. It's going to be alot quicker to forget about real life and just deal with what "works" in the game.

To show how crazy GT5 was, some front engined 4wds worked with stiff font and soft rear, others were the opposite - so front, stiff rear. It really depended on things like which car, track, power to grip ratio etc..

As thee's so many different models of Evos n GT5, if you could specify which one(s) you tried, and give full breakdown of the specs ie tuning arts, tyres, power/weight - that'll make it easier to try and get you heading in the right direction for tuning them..

 

[kyoo]

I dont own an Evo, but have been racing them all through GT5 Prologue and GT5, a quick answer to your questions:

1) Either Mitsubishi upset Kaz or Subaru gave him something very sweet because the Evo's were a nightmare all through GT5, especially the premium ones.

First gen physics on GT5, it was possible to run a custom diff (instead of AYC) and this made a big difference, Polyphony didn't get the AYC right at all, with a horrible wobble (whilst trying to drive straight) being a nasty side affect of changing the AYC to deal with extra power.

The best Evos were the RS' and the GSR VIII MR - these were the only ones that vaguely gave any kind of "fight" to it's natural rivals.

2) You could tune the understeer out, it wasn't that difficult, but the laptimes were just not there. Things got even worse when the 2nd gen physics came round about a year ago.

What happens in real life often doesn't apply "across the board" in GT tuning as Polyphony has made a total screw up. It's going to be alot quicker to forget about real life and just deal with what "works" in the game.

To show how crazy GT5 was, some front engined 4wds worked with stiff font and soft rear, others were the opposite - so front, stiff rear. It really depended on things like which car, track, power to grip ratio etc..

As thee's so many different models of Evos n GT5, if you could specify which one(s) you tried, and give full breakdown of the specs ie tuning arts, tyres, power/weight - that'll make it easier to try and get you heading in the right direction for tuning them..

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I've had a nightmare of a time trying to set up diffs. I've been running a IX GSR, since I have a 9 as well lol. I've done my best to tune the understeer out, and I think I'm actually at a happy place right now. I was on SH tires and now on SS tires. My settings are:

Ride height: 95F 93R
Spring rates: 7.5F 9R
Dampers Compression: 3F 4R
Dampers Rebound: 2F 4R
Anti Roll Bars: 1F 7R
Camber: -2.5F -1.5R
Toe: -0.05F 0.00R

I don't want to run a ton of camber or a ton of toe, since that's not what I do in my own car - but I do think you're right, I kind of need to let go as far what works "reality" and need to stick to what works in the game. I imagine for the car to be a little looser I can crank up the camber and toe in the front a little.

Regardless of my personal set up, I think it is still hard to change the "nature" of the car - i.e., if it is understeer-y or oversteer-y. No matter how close they got the cars to be stock, I think they need to reevaluate the impact of suspension modifications etc. They don't even have the stock spring rates right, for the evo at least. Due to the Evos multilink set up the actual rate that reaches the wheel is much lower than the spring rate, so it's typical to run higher rates in the back, and that's actually how it comes from the factory

 

[Highlandor]

Umm, sorry, but in the crazy world of GT, it's possible to change most cars to do most things, it's just a question of how "crazy" you want to take things. But, if you're talking about keeping things within the world of approximate normality, then I'd probably say yes.

Reason for the contradiction is that ballast, mixed tyre combinations, crazy ride heights can have a huge impact in this game, especially if you're going to run a combination (or all) of them.

A common "trick" people have used for seriously understeering cars is to run lower compound tyres on the rear - but most creditable rooms/race series won't allow that. It does, however, provide a good test - if you do this and your car is still stable, balance and driveable (better than before), it indicates the rear is too planted. If, however, it turns your car into a drift machine, then you know you had the rear end "OK".

This will help to determine whether direct tuning (adjust front to make front turn more) is needed, or whether you need indirect tuning (adjust rear to make front turn more).

If you could advise re your Evo/setup:

LSD or AYC
Power/weight
Torque split
Brake balance

A trick that worked really well in 1st gen physics on GT5 was taking a Front wheel drive & rear wheel drive Diff settings for initial and acc, then combining them and shoving as much power to the rear wheels as they could handle a full throttle while exiting low speed corners. combined with a FWD toe setting, this meant you could stomp on the gas so early and get no understeer at all. I haven't tuned an Evo yet in GT6 so dont know if this still works.

Another factor is tyre wear and how much of an issue this is in your racing i.e. are you finishing races with near perfect tyres, or you're almost down to the wheel!..

Programming wheel/pad to change the torque split and brake balance to be adjusted in race is very, very helpful with 4WDs in GT, especially if front tyre wear is an issue needing to be considered in your races..

 

[kyoo]

Umm, sorry, but in the crazy world of GT, it's possible to change most cars to do most things, it's just a question of how "crazy" you want to take things. But, if you're talking about keeping things within the world of approximate normality, then I'd probably say yes.

Reason for the contradiction is that ballast, mixed tyre combinations, crazy ride heights can have a huge impact in this game, especially if you're going to run a combination (or all) of them.

A common "trick" people have used for seriously understeering cars is to run lower compound tyres on the rear - but most creditable rooms/race series won't allow that. It does, however, provide a good test - if you do this and your car is still stable, balance and driveable (better than before), it indicates the rear is too planted. If, however, it turns your car into a drift machine, then you know you had the rear end "OK".

This will help to determine whether direct tuning (adjust front to make front turn more) is needed, or whether you need indirect tuning (adjust rear to make front turn more).

If you could advise re your Evo/setup:

LSD or AYC
Power/weight
Torque split
Brake balance

A trick that worked really well in 1st gen physics on GT5 was taking a Front wheel drive & rear wheel drive Diff settings for initial and acc, then combining them and shoving as much power to the rear wheels as they could handle a full throttle while exiting low speed corners. combined with a FWD toe setting, this meant you could stomp on the gas so early and get no understeer at all. I haven't tuned an Evo yet in GT6 so dont know if this still works.

Another factor is tyre wear and how much of an issue this is in your racing i.e. are you finishing races with near perfect tyres, or you're almost down to the wheel!..

Programming wheel/pad to change the torque split and brake balance to be adjusted in race is very, very helpful with 4WDs in GT, especially if front tyre wear is an issue needing to be considered in your races..

gotcha - so basically go nuts with the settings to get the car to behave how i want it to, regardless of real world sense.

I did try using a combo of what tires I had, sports soft in the front and Sports hard in the rear with the current set up, and it was basically exactly waht I was looking for behavior wise. other areas of the car's performance suffered though.

I'm going with LSD, stock power weight, stock torque split, stock brake balance. But like you said, I'll probably have to change those to get the car to behave how I want it to, at least in game. I'll keep playing around. Thanks

 

[MrGrado]

Negative rear toe to make the car less tight. It is what it is. And remember it's a game.

I understand some people don't like to tune their cars performance with toe because they wouldn't do it like that in real life. I have no real life experience with playing with adjustable suspension but I do understand the principle behind toe. Tuning a setting that changes where your wheels point seems reasonable to me.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I've had a nightmare of a time trying to set up diffs. I've been running a IX GSR, since I have a 9 as well lol. I've done my best to tune the understeer out, and I think I'm actually at a happy place right now. I was on SH tires and now on SS tires. My settings are:

Ride height: 95F 93R
Spring rates: 7.5F 9R
Dampers Compression: 3F 4R
Dampers Rebound: 2F 4R
Anti Roll Bars: 1F 7R
Camber: -2.5F -1.5R
Toe: -0.05F 0.00R

Try this and see if it helps.

Ride Height around 65/80
Springs 7/9
Dampers Comp. 3/4
Dampers Ext. 3/5
ARB's 3/6
Camber 0.0/0.0 <<< this is important..camber seems to be broken at this point..more camber is less grip.
Toe -0.10 / -0.10

If you have LSD on the car set it up as follows:

5/20/5
5/25/5

Racing Brakes 4/6

 

[kyoo]

thanks for the tips all - will give this a shot!!

 

[godlameroso]

Hi all,

New GT6 and former GT5 owner, and real life Mini Cooper and Evo 9 owner here, had some quick questions about the suspension set up.

In real life, it's really easy to set up a car to be loose. You can mess with tire pressures, damping, and of course stiffer rear springs and rear sway bar. Then there's the rear diff, which I've upgraded to get a TON of power on oversteer (no AYC in the USA).

In this game, it seems very very difficult to get a car that inherently understeered stock to no longer understeer - especially the evo, when you yank out the AYC. I've played with spring rates, run the FSB at 1 in the front and RSB at 7 in the back, and still seem to get steady state understeer, even when I (attempt) to trail brake.

Any thoughts on this? The evo in this game feels nothing like the one in real life..

Try toe out in the rear, if you raise the rear rebound you get more stability in high speed areas, and if all else fails stagger your tires, ie put stickier rubber up front. Vise versa if your car is oversteering with no help

 

[kyoo]

wow.. I've swapped to a set up similar to what was recommended above and I've loosened up my cars a great deal. I think removing the camber did most of the trick oddly enough. I even lost a little stability under braking but was able to adjust that back down. big thanks for the help

 

[turbohonda666]

Honestly i have drove a alot of cars in real life and the physics seem very close to the cars i have driven. evo‘s understeer like crazy in real life just typical dsm. Plus most of these cars are modeled from Japanese specs. Completely different from us models.