T500RS Install

[pilmat]

A sad day came just before Christmas, my beloved G27 got to the point where it was no longer fun to drive. It didn't die or break, it is just plain worn out. There was a time when I was putting in way more hours a week than I would like to publicly admit Add to that my G27 was the test bed where I learned a lot about how the wheel was made (I've had it fully apart more than a few times) and the amount of customizing I've done. Then I beat it to a pulp with Dirt 3...

Alas, it knocks and bangs a lot, and it has gotten far to "thumpy" in FFB.

Something peculiar about my G27 is that it the only one that I have seen, and I've seen about a dozen, that spins as fast as it does in initialization. It gets to its end stops quickly and with a large bang! I have always enjoyed its great smoothness and fantastic "rear end feel" in FFB, and found that I always seemed a little faster on my home wheel.

But it has just gotten worse recently. I've re-greased the rack and pinion and added a bit of spring load to the rack spring, both helped a bit. It's just time to admit that it is worn out and move on.

The obvious question was "what to do?". Do I replace it with another G27, or change wheel altogether?

The title of this thread will tell you what I decided, but I'll give you my reasoning too. The G27, in my opinion, is the best FFB algorithm. It is the wheel that gives the driver the most natural feedback as to what the car is doing. I have run back to back tests with a T500 and G27 with several real race cars drivers and to their surprise, the feel of the G27 is the one they like the most. It is very accurate at telling you where the front tires are an the way into the corner, but is the best at providing you with timely information as to when the back starts to break loose. The T500 is very good at both as well, and combined with its stronger and smoother motor, gives a great drive. But the G27, even with the stock wheel, is just a bit better.

A good friend has a CSR Elite wheel and I have quite a bit of miles done with it. We can proudly say that his wheel has never given him any problems! But even after several firmware updates, the FFB algorithm is behind the Logitech and Thrustmaster offerings.

So why did I choose the T500, especially when I dislike the pedals and would prefer the paddles to be on the wheel? Well it is about long term durability. I use my rig for fun and as a teaching/learning tool for real cars, so I need to know that what I'm doing today will be the same as in several months from now

Now on to what I'm about to get into!

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Pictured is a V5 wheel I found on Kijiji, the DSD T500RS wheel adapter (thanks Derek for the always swift shipping) and a modified Human Racing GT Chassis wheel mounting plate and risers. The JohnBodin G27 pedal adapter is in the mail.

The project should be straight forward (well it is in head). I'll remove the GT wheel and install my OMP Superturismo wheel and DSD SLI-M plate on the DSD wheel adapter. The SLI USB wire will be fed down a hole to be made in the adapter. This wire will then be fed through the yet-to-be removed T500 connector in the centre of the wheel and then out the back of the wheel to my PC. That's the way I wired the G27. The PS3 direct control is removed, but if I decide to get into GT6, I can use the DS3 to operate in the menus.

The monied rig plate and risers are an attempt to put the T500 a little bit closer to where the G27 is on the HR chassis. The T500 base is substantially larger than the G27 and it also moss the wheel closer to the driver and up. The lowered risers drop the wheel 16.5mm (0.680") and the re-drilled holes wove it back about the same. It's a small change but allows me to find a better wheel position on the chassis.

Also, it's important to remove the rubber feel from under the wheel. If they are left, the wheel frame can bend when the mounting screws are tightened!

That's it for now. The install should be complete over the next couple of days with lots of pictures

 

[Paul33993]

Looking forward to it. Especially how you do the DSD button plate. I've been thinking about adding one of these to my Momo and it sounds exactly like what I have in mind. So I'm curious to see pictures of your buttons and wiring job.

I'm assuming you're adding buttons. I'm not personally interested in adding an SLI (since I'll be day oneing the consumer Oculus Rift), but hopefully you're still adding buttons.

 

[pilmat]

Looking forward to it. Especially how you do the DSD button plate. I've been thinking about adding one of these to my Momo and it sounds exactly like what I have in mind. So I'm curious to see pictures of your buttons and wiring job.

I'm assuming you're adding buttons. I'm not personally interested in adding an SLI (since I'll be day oneing the consumer Oculus Rift), but hopefully you're still adding buttons.

I'll be putting the DSD SLI plate from my G27 on:

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The SLI is what powers all the buttons, not the G27. It could have been done through the G27, but only 6 buttons and I needed 8 inputs... This is the wiring on the back:

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The USB cable is the shielded one and passes through the G27 steering column and out the pedal adapter hole. The T500 install should be straight forward if there is an easy path for the USB cable up through the steering column

 

[Paul33993]

The USB cable is the shielded one and passes through the G27 steering column and out the pedal adapter hole. The T500 install should be straight forward if there is an easy path for the USB cable up through the steering column

Haha. That's what I'm hoping to find out there. Hope you find one.

It's a little different from what I'm considering, but the core issues are the same. So I'm rooting for you and looking forward to seeing the results.

 

[pilmat]

In a very busy week, I managed to get the wheel install done. But I did it in-between a lot of other stuff, so no mid-mod pics

The lighting in the rig corner is crap at night, I'll get some better shots this weekend.

Basically the install went very easily. The T500 wire up the centre of the steering column unclips from the main PC board, then cut a couple of ty-raps and with the plug in the column unscrewed, it comes out easy enough. I removed the plastic plug from the PC board end of the wire to ease pulling it out. Here is the pin out for when I put it back together

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The red dot on the plug reminds me "this way up".

Then I bored a hole in the centre of the DSD wheel adapter and grooved a channel from the centre out for the SLI USB cable. This allows the cable to be sandwiched between the SLI mounting plate and the wheel adapter. I made the groove just deep enough so that the USB cable is a bit tight when squeezed to stop it rattling around.

As a personal option, I find the DSD adapter a bit thick for my wheel. The OMP Superturismo wheel is "flat" which OMP interprets to mean that the mounting face is flush with the back of the rim. This gives it a slight dish in my opinion and moves the rim a bit too far from the paddles with the added SLI mounting plate. I cut the mounting surface from 0.750" thick to 0.380" and the paddles are now in a great position. I also tapped the holes 10-32 as I'm not a fan of self tapping screws.

I ran the USB cable through the stock routing, but ran it out of a groove I made between the T500 USB cable and the power plug. The cable was from an old mouse, so it is small and very flexible. It winds up easily in full steering lock.

And that is basically it! The only major pain is taking the all the covers off the T500 to get to the column cable., but it is a very straight forward mod.

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I did a few laps in iRacing and a few stages in Dirt3 and I'm very pleased with the results ​

 

[Mayaman]

Sweet!

 

[pilmat]

Sweet!

Cheers!

Here is a quick shot of the exit wiring. It will get a clean install when the Bodin T500/G27 pedal adapter gets installed

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Would anybody like to see some of the internals of what I did? I will likely do some work on the V2 wheel I have at work and would do some photos with it.​

 

[pilmat]

This just arrived Cheers John Bodin

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Now I hook up my beloved G27 pedals to the T500 and be GT6 compliant
I've been running a Bodnar cable since I hooked up the SLI on my G27 wheel a while back, so now I keep the resolution of 1024 steps, remove one USB input and gain a game!

 

[Gunstar]

That's some truly fantastic work pilmat. I'm pretty jealous of your wheel!

 

[pilmat]

Small update: I got the Bodin pedal adapter up and running (took 2 minutes including ty-rapping the cables!) AND got into GT6!! I must say that the GT6 experience with the T500 is very impressive. I would have liked to have a go at it with the G27 for comparison, but I don't even have a G27 at work anymore...

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[Paul33993]

Are you just running stock G27 pedals, or do you have something like Perfect Pedal on them?

 

[pilmat]

Are you just running stock G27 pedals, or do you have something like Perfect Pedal on them?

GTEYE spring It's my second favourite set-up to the Hydraulic Brake I built. There is something about load cells that I just don't like... I have yet to try a Perfect Pedal (installed one for a customer, but didn't get to try it), but I have two friends that swear by it. Someday

 

[Mayaman]

Pilmat, whenever you're ready I have that extra perfect pedal you can try.

JUst let me know. Then we can do a custom project. Yipee.

 

[Paul33993]

GTEYE spring It's my second favourite set-up to the Hydraulic Brake I built. There is something about load cells that I just don't like... I have yet to try a Perfect Pedal (installed one for a customer, but didn't get to try it), but I have two friends that swear by it. Someday

That's cool. I used to use the GTEYE spring with the Bodnar cable on my old G27. I actually like the T500 pedals with the Basher mod and the 10 dollar Amazon replacement pedals better, but whatever works best for each person.

Pilmat, whenever you're ready I have that extra perfect pedal you can try.

JUst let me know. Then we can do a custom project. Yipee.

If you guys could find a way to get it working with the T500 pedals, I'd follow it real closely.

 

[JohnBodin]

Pilmat, whenever you're ready I have that extra perfect pedal you can try.

JUst let me know. Then we can do a custom project. Yipee.

We'd have to be VERY careful to make sure to confirm how the Perfect Pedal was wired-up, and then make sure the polarities on the BPA-TX-G27 matched-up properly, but I'd be willing to work with you guys if you decide to pursue this.

The critical aspect is to make sure the Perfect Pedal is wired properly to mate-up with the +V and ground coming from the T500 or TX wheel base -- if you get the polarities crossed-up, you'll kill your Thrustmaster wheel base. I say this from experience, because I already had one willing customer test this with his wheel, and despite the fact that we both confirmed how the Perfect Pedal was wired-up and how the BPA-TX-G27 adapter was configured, the combination still proved fatal to his Thrustmaster wheel.

Nothing is impossible, though.

 

[Mayaman]

I'm looking to mate the PP with my Clubsport V2s. With the PP I think the Clubsports would be pretty comparable to pedals costing a few hundred dollars more. The build quality is rock solid, the clutch mechanism is brilliant and with a new spring the Gas is great. Just needs the PP in my opinion.

 

[pilmat]

What's he up to now?

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[Gunstar]

Making a Gran Turismo themed Batarang??

 

[pilmat]

I'm not Batman (or even Robin...), but how about MORE BUTTONS?!?

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The plate and package is all done, I'll mount it to the wheel tomorrow (the wheel in the picture is the one at the shop, not mine). My DSD button plate is great for iRacing, but having to slog through the menus in GT6 is a pain. And now that RA is available in GT6, I need access. So a side mounted panel will be just right

I have lots of pics, all will be posted when I get everything done.

 

[rankings18]

Nice project Pilmat!
I've recently added a button box to my rig for gt6 for the same reason-more buttons
Cant wait to see pics...and maybe a little how-to?

 

[pilmat]

Got it on, took a few pics along the way too. I'll get them up soon!

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I'll test it tonight in the WRS practice, Ferrari at Monza

 

[Gunstar]

Okay, that is NOT what I was expecting. Pretty slick pilmat!

 

[pilmat]

By installing an OMP race wheel, I basically lose all the T500 rim buttons. And with GT not button box friendly, I needed to find a way to get back all the T500's original buttons for things like LOOK LEFT, LOOK RIGHT and all the RA functions (plus I like to honk at people ).

In removing the wheel base's centre column wiring so that I could run a USB cable for the SLI plate, I could now route that harness elsewhere and connect it back to the rim. By cutting the physical rim from the GT wheel, the thought was that I could mount the remaining centre button panel to my rig as a button box. Here is the result and a little about the journey

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The first task was to cut the physical rim of the GT wheel. It turns out that the rim is plastic and is moulded to the aluminum button plate. The plastic "grips" the aluminum via the three spokes, grabbing through the big holes and the small row of little holes on the spoke ends. In the photo, the bottom spoke is already cut off, as I knew I wouldn't need it.

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Based on my rig configuration, the best place to but the button box will be off to one of the sides of the wheel base. I chose the left side as it gives me clean access to the shifter on the right, and I can manipulate it with my left hand while still upshifting with my right hand (I only tend to press buttons on the straights ). In this photo, I see that the button box will fit in the wheel base's notch. I knew that notch had a useful purpose!!

Note that the left and bottom spoke ends are now removed. I use the "home anodizing" kit to get the plate back to its factory black look. For those that don't know, a Sharpie does AMAZING anodize touch-ups

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As there was no way this was ever going to be used as a wheel again, I cut back the adapter. Eliminating the threads makes the button box much more compact. The wiring harness is removed for the machining.

Here the back cover has not yet been modified to remove the end ears. These are cut off to make the box a bit more compact, but then the cover is not as firmly mounted to the aluminum plate. However, after fitting to the wheel base in the notch, the back cover becomes very secure.

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The ears are cut off the back cover. It will need a slight trim to fit in the wheel base notch, but it is basically done here. The adapter is shown with the harness re-attached.

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Here is the button box complete.

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And from the back, without the final notch clearance done on the back cover.

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To get the end to sit flush with the bottom of the wheel base notch, I had to trim a bit off the back cover.

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The back cover clearance from the outside. The wiring can also be seen here. The wheel base harness is attached to the adapter.

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The button box fitting was done on my shop wheel. Here I have both mine and the shop's side by side. The stock GT rim versus an OMP Superturismo rim with DSD mounting plate and a SLI-M.

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Here you can see the DSD T500 adapter as I edified it for my needs. The centre hole and wiring groove are added to pass the USB cable need to run the SLI-M.

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Here is the adapter from the top. The threaded thickness was cut down about half from stock to allow for the SLI plate and to get my fingers closer to the paddles!

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Sorry about the blurry pic Here I mark the front cover plate for the main bolt. Note it is RIGHT ON the separation for grey part and black lower half... Not too bad I thought, until I flipped it over

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See that little hole to the left of the mounting nub? That's the centre of the bolt hole for the button box... As I'll be bolting through the two plastic covers, removing the nub is not a problem, just something else to do.

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I skipped the nub cutting and hole drilling, but this is what the back side looks like with the two holes. The 1/4" bolt clamps everything nicely, and I also used the original back plate securing screw hole to locate the button box a bit better. It required a slight trim of the front plate lower half on that corner there, to get the screw head to sit flat.

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Here we are on the action side, all bolted up. Also applied some "home anodizing" Sharpie to the cut down locator screw to keep it all in the black theme.

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The top cover required a small clearance notch to allow for the locator screw head. But everything fit together quite nicely.

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I ran the wheel harness out through a slightly deepened notch I had already made for the USB cable. All wiring out the same place.

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And as it all looks from the back side, ready to go!

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And from the front, with a rim installed. One of the biggest PITAs of this mod was unsoldering and soldering the SLI plate off and back on...

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Finished product, sitting beside it's somewhat more basic twin.

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At home on my rig. Now I have full RA access, and I can honk at you

 

[rankings18]

Nicely done pimat! The more buttons, the better
But RA functions still don't work in online mode, only in career mode, hopefully they fix it soon.
Also, gt6 CAN be button box friendly with the right parts, I have one and it's one of the best mods I've done to my rig. But it looks like your all set with this mod
How sturdy is it? I tend to bash on mine during intense moments

 

[Dean]

Looks good and complex, @pilmat! :tup:

 

[kgbrown247]

interested in buying a BPA-TX-G27 if anyone has one they are not using. will pay double.