Take-Two-Gate: R* To The Rescue?

rallymorten

rallymorten

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Upside-down in the final corner
rallymorten
UPDATE:

New statement from R*, including that they're now talking with OpenIV developers


Because it's been over a year since there last was huge media attention for GTA, Take Two has decided to file a cease and decists letter against what you could describe as the foundation of most, if not all, GTA mods, OpenIV.

To make a long story short, T2 has discovered that it "allows third parties to defeat security features of its software and modify that software" (in other words, modding the game), which they believe is against their rights.

The creator of OpenIV has said that although they could take it to court and be told (as have other modders before them) that modifications are a part of the game (pun intended), they simply couldn't be bothered, due to the amount of time and money that would take and thus are now in the process of being Trevor'd.

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...peniv-receives-cease-and-desist-from-take-two

(if that doesn't satisfy you, just put "Take-Two ban modding" into Google and pick whatever you like)

All I'm left wondering is: why now? I realise Wikipedia isn't the most trustworthy of sources, but according to these statistics, GTA V is the fourth-best selling game of all time, and well on its way to a podium finish. It seems a strange time to take away arguably the biggest selling point and most distinct feature of the PC version.

It's only offline mods anywa- oooooooooh.

Discuss.

How to tell Take-Two off:

https://www.change.org/p/rockstar-games-save-openiv - Change.org petition

https://www.take2games.com/contact/index.php - Take-Two contact

http://store.steampowered.com/app/271590/ - Steam store page (to leave negative reviews)

And, because this is the BBC, here's a link in case you think Take-Two stopping the distribution of OpenIV is a good thing:

www.ibelieveopenivisthebiggestproblemweasahumanracehavehadtodealwith.com

Edit:

http://gtaforums.com/topic/889348-take-two-vs-modding/ - OpenIV developer gives a timeline of events

http://www.pcgamer.com/heres-rockst...e-two-shutting-down-gtas-openiv-modding-tool/ - Rockstar Games' statement
 
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rallymorten
To make a long story short, T2 has discovered that it allows modification of ingame content, which they believe is against their rights.
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That's not what your link says, it says that in TT's opinion the software "allow(s) third parties to defeat security features of its software and modify that software in violation Take-Two's rights".

I don't read that to mean that modification of in-game assets is verboten, rather that the potential to defeat security sections of the code is.
 
Still, the timing and the measures taken is a bit peculiar.

They're doing this slap-bang in the middle of E3 when, presumably, everyone's too busy drooling over whatever's coming in the next 12 months or so, hoping that this would drown in the flood. Let's not forget either that the PC version will have its 2nd anniversary this year, and even if OpenIV didn't work with it from the start, it's not like it was released last week, so I don't really buy that they've made this discovery in the recent past.

The problem I'm having with this is that they haven't given a clear explanation of what they mean by "security features" - it really could be anything. If it's directly related to online gameplay, fair enough, you'd want to stop that. Given that this is 2017, I'd imagine that could be (mostly) fixed with an update or two - have the game cut off connection if the game's been modified in any way. This just seems extremely cheap.

I'm just waiting for them to make an official statement on this, see what they've got to say.
 
Honestly I don't know whether to be more pissed at Take Two filing the cease and desist or OpenIV being complete sissies and not even trying to fight. Who cares if it's going to be time consuming, you fight against it for the sake of principle and justice!
 
JayOTT
Honestly I don't know whether to be more pissed at Take Two filing the cease and desist or OpenIV being complete sissies and not even trying to fight. Who cares if it's going to be time consuming, you fight against it for the sake of principle and justice!
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You seem to forget that Rockstar/T2 probably have some of the best lawyers money can buy. They made over a billion dollars on this game. Surely, they can get some top-level legal teams with a fraction of that.
 
TenEightyOne
That's not what your link says, it says that in TT's opinion the software "allow(s) third parties to defeat security features of its software and modify that software in violation Take-Two's rights".

I don't read that to mean that modification of in-game assets is verboten, rather that the potential to defeat security sections of the code is.
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Not that Take Two would probably win that argument either.


JayOTT
Honestly I don't know whether to be more pissed at Take Two filing the cease and desist or OpenIV being complete sissies and not even trying to fight. Who cares if it's going to be time consuming, you fight against it for the sake of principle and justice!
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There's very little that I can see Take Two having to win a case on this, but they don't need to win. Being right is not a bullet proof vest.
 
I understand them not wanting people modding the online version of the game, and that is what they should focus their energy on. Those of us that do mods in the offline mode should be allowed to do so. I paid for the game, I should be allowed to do whatever I want to it. Hopefully they get enough backlash for this that they drop the case.
 
I'm guessing R* won't say anything, and if they do, it's pretty much going to be the same statement that T2 did.
 
I don't really use mods in GTA V, but I've already uninstalled the game. I'm prepared to be as much of a pain to T2 as I can be as just a single individual.

https://www.change.org/p/rockstar-games-save-openiv - Change.org petition, probably useless but might as well make your voice heard.

https://www.take2games.com/contact/index.php - Contact T2, again probably useless but it'll hopefully get them to listen.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/271590/ - Steam store page, if you have the game on PC then leave a negative review. With the Steam Summer Sale coming up, so many negative reviews are probably going to hurt sales a lot.
 
I'm doing my part too, I am also staying away from GTA for the time being. No way in hell I'm going to buy those Cards at all. I really wished gamers have more freedom, but nope. This and Bethesda are the ones going down now.
 
As of right now, I still feel like R* having to take the hit is a bit unfair - AFAIK they haven't yet given their view on the subject and, you never know, there is always a tiny chance they'd rather side with the players.

Unfortunately, they're the easiest way to reach Take-Two by means of simply not playing GTA V, not buying RDR2 and what not.

Edit: just a quick note about the Take-Two stocks (which is humorously fitting due to GTA V having a stock market): as of writing this, despite a drop when the markets opened, their stock is at just about the same value as they were yesterday, before this whole thing happened. There is a slight downward trend, though..
 
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They took away ALL my money. Including the boring slow MC van missions with the most irritating LJT phone calls. I won't be doing those again... It was a mistake doing them the first 10 times!

I was so careful never to dip into fake money. I should still have between 10 and 20 million. Not 26 thousand.

As anyone who uses the Creator after DLC knows, R* can't count the number of cars in a very short list. Let alone manage a complex economy that's wide open to exploits thanks to their Swiss cheese code.

RIP GTA.
 
SkyArkz23
@JakeMR2 A boycott doesn't sound like a bad idea. heh, im down for it. Anyone else who's angered by this should do the same.
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I hardly play it anymore anyway. Especially since I have disappearing textures after my last install. I get more enjoyment out of watching other people play it on YouTube. [shameless plug] Polecat, Buggs and Jeff's DOJ videos ROCK[/end shameless plug]
 
The lovely chaps at GTAF (where the lead developer of OpenIV has also posted a timeline of what's happened, with a very convenient lack of communication from T2) were on the internet more recently than me and have found this - R* seemingly giving their view.

The long and short of it is, as expected, the ability to do bad things in Online, which, as I said earlier, is fair enough that they'd want that stopped. Surely, then, you'd talk to the developer about the issue and see if anything can be done to prevent this, on either side.

The intention is good, but the measures taken and the circumstances described by the developer in the link above.. yeah, I can't say I fully support those..

Edit: adding more fuel to the bonfire we've got going, it would appear that both OpenIV and the equally popular Script Hook come with Online "disabled" as standard, thus basically invalidating the argument about "interfering with the GTA Online experience for everybody". Can anyone who's worked with either or both of these tools confirm this, in which case we keep the heat up?
 
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rallymorten
The long and short of it is, as expected, the ability to do bad things in Online, which, as I said earlier, is fair enough that they'd want that stopped. Surely, then, you'd talk to the developer about the issue and see if anything can be done to prevent this, on either side.
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But that's not what OpenIV does at all. Sure, it edits the car databases and character databases as well, but "It does not affect the online environment in anyway."

Why doesn't T2 attack the script kiddies with those juiced Mod Menus? Those are the ones that alter the statistics of the online database, not the offline.

I'm still not agreeing with R* or Take 2 at all, it's stupid.

If they think this is going to stop hacking the game, their dead wrong.
 
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Something just crossed my mind while I was at work....what's to say Take-Two isn't planning on going after FiveM? yeah it's not related to the C&D, but lets face it, it diverts people from the official servers thus not getting shark card sales
 
SkyArkz23
Something just crossed my mind while I was at work....what's to say Take-Two isn't planning on going after FiveM? yeah it's not related to the C&D, but lets face it, it diverts people from the official servers thus not getting shark card sales
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I thought they already received a C&D. Maybe it was another mod I'm thinking about...
 
JayOTT
Honestly I don't know whether to be more pissed at Take Two filing the cease and desist or OpenIV being complete sissies and not even trying to fight. Who cares if it's going to be time consuming, you fight against it for the sake of principle and justice!
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It may not be worth it financially. Even if they win the case, the legal fees required to fight T2 on the matter may not pay out in the end, esp. if T2 tries a bully tactic of finding ways to "run up the tab" against them by extending a case.

There are examples of companies filing patent lawsuits against inventors/small business because they know they can't afford to fight them.
 
McLaren
There are examples of companies filing patent lawsuits against inventors/small business because they know they can't afford to fight them.
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And they're going to keep on getting away with it as long as sissies like OpenIV keep backing down from a fight they know they can win because "IT COSTS TOO MUCH!" or "IT'S TOO MUCH HASSLE!"

BULL ****, stand up for something you believe in for ****s sake! The people are on your side, they'll fund you if you need money, they'll support you if you need legal skills, just F I G H T!!!!

But if no-one is willing to lead the players to victory, then the players don't deserve to have GTA mods...
 
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Snorevette
With the Steam Summer Sale coming up, so many negative reviews are probably going to hurt sales a lot.
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Yeah right! It's GTA V, even if a potential customer was put off by a "Mixed" or "Negative" review rating, they'd just look at the reviews, see that it's just people being political and buy it anyway. Never forget how weak gamers (as a community) can be:

18j48weujcgewjpg.jpg


Also, the people saying the mod developers should fight it - Really? Do you know how much a lawsuit like this would cost in terms of money, time and mental health? First of all, the code they're modifying is Take Two's property so they do have the final say in what they are and are not comfortable with. Secondly, modders are hobbyists, not professionals. Can you imagine taking on someone who is a) well within their right and b) financially backed up by the sales of their wildly successful game to fight a lawsuit to allow non-paying gamers to use unlicensed model rips from other games or change the postprocessing in their game? If that's not a guaranteed loss, I don't know what is.
 
JayOTT
And they're going to keep on getting away with it as long as sissies like OpenIV keep backing down from a fight they know they can win because "IT COSTS TOO MUCH!" or "IT'S TOO MUCH HASSLE!"

BULL ****, stand up for something you believe in for ****s sake! The people are on your side, they'll fund you if you need money, they'll support you if you need legal skills, just F I G H T!!!!

But if no-one is willing to lead the players to victory, then the players don't deserve to have GTA mods...
Click to expand...

Why don't you just buy the IP of Open IV and send a letter to T2 asking them to sue you, if you're so eager to go to court?

Edit: after reading this, it looks like T2 would win a court case. http://mttlr.org/2012/11/06/gaming-mods-and-copyright/

Also, let's say that they have to pay $50 million in damages. If 50 thousand gamers are prepared to share that cost, they'd each have to pay $1000. Would it still be worth it to go to court over this?
 
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eran0004
Also, let's say that they have to pay $50 million in damages.
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Don't pull numbers out of thin air to try to justify a decision to back down from injustice. This isn't a piracy issue, it would be hard to place any sort of monetary value in the 'damages' of third party mods since everyone presumably needs to have bought the game from T2 anyway to play these mods.
 

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