The Battle for Donbas, Round 1: Kramatorsk

[Dotini]

The purpose of this thread is to focus on a single phase and single theater of the present invasion of Ukraine. It is currently thought this phase could last from a few weeks to a few months, but could be foreshortened by negotiations.

Some background information:

 

[TexRex]

Dotini: "This is a thread for discussion of events that fits in another, indeed is ongoing in another, except I created this one."

 

[Dotini]

Recent developments include Putin declaring peace talks at a dead end, fading resistance at Mariupol, fresh Russian convoys deploying to Donbas, and what looks like deployments of Russian missiles to the Finnish border area.

 

[Dotini]

It looks like the first big battle will be for the key town of Kramatorsk.

 

[Danoff]

It's not a boxing match @Dotini, try to maintain a little decorum with the thread title please.

 

[Boston77]

Never mind.
OP wont bother.

 

[Keef]

It's not a boxing match @Dotini, try to maintain a little decorum with the thread title please.

It isn't. But I do seem to remember staying in my high school cafeteria after lunch to watch the Shock and Awe campaign in Iraq. Thought it was pretty rad at the time. American media is excellent at broadcasting war as if it is sport, especially since the conflict is usually so far away that many people can't really grasp it. Naming the thread as the media is presenting it is amusing to me.

 

[Danoff]

It isn't. But I do seem to remember staying in my high school cafeteria after lunch to watch the Shock and Awe campaign in Iraq. Thought it was pretty rad at the time. American media is excellent at broadcasting war as if it is sport, especially since the conflict is usually so far away that many people can't really grasp it. Naming the thread as the media is presenting it is amusing to me.

The "shock and awe" campaign was designed to do the opposite of what Russia is doing - minimize the humanitarian disaster, shorten the war, and protect civilians. One could even argue "shock and awe" was an attempt at being as humane as possible to Iraqi soldiers as well. @Dotini seems to appreciate the worst human behavior, so I'm not particularly surprised that he's munching popcorn while Ukrainians are enduring barbaric treatment. All I can do is point out his callousness.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The framing of this thread is pretty sick.

 

[Dotini]

Here's a pair of new mainstream media videos regarding Putin's Plan B - not only the conquest of the Donbas, but maybe also Odesa.

 

[MaxAttack]

Here's a pair of new mainstream media videos regarding Putin's Plan B - not only the conquest of the Donbas, but maybe also Odesa.

So to recap, you started a thread seperate from the wider Ukraine discussion thread so you can home in on the "battle for Donbas" and have proceeded to post content (read: walls of YouTube links) discussing not just the Donbas region, but also wider peace talks, goings on in Kyiv and wider Ukraine, and goings on on the Finnish Border in Russia itself.

There's nothing here that couldn't have gone in the main thread, dude. Is there anything less important in this discussion than the smug satisfaction of being the one who started it? Genuine question.

 

[Dotini]

So to recap, you started a thread seperate from the wider Ukraine discussion thread so you can home in on the "battle for Donbas" and have proceeded to post content (read: walls of YouTube links) discussing not just the Donbas region, but also wider peace talks, goings on in Kyiv and wider Ukraine, and goings on on the Finnish Border in Russia itself.

There's nothing here that couldn't have gone in the main thread, dude. Is there anything less important in this discussion than the smug satisfaction of being the one who started it? Genuine question.

I started this thread to focus in as narrowly as possible on a single theater and a single phase of the conflict. I felt the other thread was getting out of control with off topic posts, virtue signaling and emotional venting. A genuine lack of hard news was evident. Nothing but hard, real-world mainstream news and opinion should be appearing in this thread.

 

[MaxAttack]

I started this thread to focus in as narrowly as possible on a single theater and a single phase of the conflict. I felt the other thread was getting out of control with off topic posts, virtue signaling and emotional venting. A genuine lack of hard news was evident. Nothing but hard, real-world mainstream news and opinion should be appearing in this thread.

That's, as far as I see it, a matter of your personal interpretation and you must see how complaining the waters are too muddy is hardly reasoning for a wholly seperate news dumping thread that is only certain to muddy the waters further.

You started this thread to home in on a single aspect of the conflict and preceded to wax lyrical on relevant tangents which is pretty much exactly what happens with every piece of info in the main thread - it's called a discussion and just because you don't see everything there as personally relevant doesn't mean the thread isn't serving its purpose.

It's the nature of a public forum that discussions will diverge and head on different tangents. I'm pretty sure that's why (good) forums have slick quote and reply functions.

 

[Dotini]

a wholly seperate news dumping thread that is only certain to muddy the waters further.

You can't be serious.

 

[MaxAttack]

You can't be serious.

You already have completely personal jabs, discussion of the thread title, posts that have been edit-scrubbed out of sheer exasperation, and a tangential discussion about the Iraq Shock and Awe campaign and we aren't past a page.

You see what I'm talking about? You can set out as iron fisted of a rule as you like in the OP, it won't stop people discussing in whichever direction they're motivated, be that to discuss hard news, express raw emotion, or even get shirty with one another (I think stress is understandable). That's simply not a power anyone can impose on people in an open forum.

I'm serious man, every word.

 

[Dotini]

You see what I'm talking about? You can set out as iron fisted of a rule as you like in the OP, it won't stop people discussing in whichever direction they're motivated, be that to discuss hard news, express raw emotion, or even get shirty with one another (I think stress is understandable). That's simply not a power anyone can impose on people in an open forum.

I'm serious man, every word.

In my opinion, threads in the News and Opinion forum should be weighted towards news and opinion. Expressing off-topic raw emotion and "getting shirty"* about other forum members should be more like 10% than 90%.

*To "get shirty" with other members I take to mean comments which are demeaning, sarcastic and crude enough to fit on a tee-shirt. Hardly a great standard for a forum of serious news and opinion.

 

[Famine]

Imagine if one could Google unfamiliar phrases to determine their etymology, rather than making up a meaning all of your own and pretending that it's the real one.

It's not a boxing match @Dotini, try to maintain a little decorum with the thread title please.

Yup. And as the poster has shown no recognition of this fact despite three entire days to address it (and has significant form)...