The Battle to be Ayeka... uhh... III

[Tornado]

So with the installation of Bluetooth into the stereo of the Seville, I'm now officially out of projects to do with her. Also, I'm increasingly terrified as the miles get closer and closer to 120,000 that something horrible is going to happen. So, time to get a new car!

So far I've narrowed it down to 3 cars (with a sorta 4th) that fit under my criteria (small-ish, light-ish, mostly luxurious/nice inside, sporty, under $25,000, able to be used year round with proper setup, somewhat feasible to be worked on myself, not outrageously expensive to maintain, or at least less than the Seville). My hope is that somepeoples can help me out with any part of these I've overlooked, because up until a couple week ago I was pretty focused on my second choice before on a whim poking around to see the prices of roughly equivalent vehicles.

Preferred Choice #1:

996 Carrera
​

Pros:
Actually would be available equipped in a way that's about perfect for how I'd want it (AWD, possibly even Targa) while still being under budget.
Rear seats, which would 9/10 times wouldn't be necessary
Has good headlights, and an easy swap to Double DIN
Sounds like they are mostly mechanically straightforward
Once you have made sure that IMS/RMS are taken care of, seem like they are perfectly reliable daily drivers (which seems borne out by how many are for sale with high mileage)
Probably well taken care of by default based on what they are

Cons:
IMS/RMS sounds pretty terrifying if you can't tell if it was done
Don't know much at all about stuff like typical wear items, problem areas, electrical foibles, etc.
Anything I can't do myself probably would be even more expensive to fix than the Cadillac, even if parts aren't.
Seems like nearly everyone ordered them new in terrible color combos (silver and black interior or whatever)
Sounds like transmissions aren't the most bulletproof of things (compared to choice #2)?

Preferred Choice #2:

C5 50th Anniversary Edition​

Pros:
I know they are reliable (barring typical GM electrical foibles)
I know they are easy to work on
50th Anniversary models are fully loaded
Is automatically a targa
I know most parts are somewhat inexpensive (suspension bits notwithstanding)
The C5 has even more storage space than the Cadillac
I love the color combo, probably because it is almost identical to Ayeka
I know they ride very well, and that suspension really works
The best gas mileage of the lot

Cons:
That is the only C5 I'd consider, because that's the only color that I think the interior looks any good in
I know the headlights are atrocious, and I'd know it would cost me a lot of money to fix it
I know the audio system is atrocious, and I'd know it would cost me a lot of money to fix it
Not anywhere near as easy to see out of as Ryoko
I'm sure the 996 is a better car overall
It's amusingly difficult to find a C5 with a slushbox (compared to C4s where they fall out of trees), and the stickshift has 14 feet long throws. That's more money to eventually get it taken care of.
While it's one that almost everyone who bought a Corvette that year ordered, it's still technically a limited edition model and will be upcharged accordingly when I actually start physcially going to places to test drive examples
Harder to find as coupes than convertibles, which I absolutely do not want

Preferred Choice #3:

Coxster
​

Pros:
The newest car of the lot, with all the positives that entails from being a decade newer debut
The most sporty of the list
Seems like people were a lot less lame with color combinations when buying them new

Cons:
The least practical car of the list
I'd worry about it more in the winter than the other two
I'm guessing the most expensive to maintain
Really know nothing about them.

Acknowledged Choice #4:

C6
​

Pros:
Better by almost every measurable standard than the C5
Replacing the radio would be far easier than any of the above
The headlights aren't hot garbage like on the C5
LS2 models cost almost identical to later year C5s in price
Much smaller than the C5
Easier to see out of than the C5
Slim possibility of the 6 speed slushbox
The manual has a much better linkage than the C5 so I wouldn't have to futz with that if I did end up with a stick

Cons:
I despise GM interiors of this era, to the extent that this is a fringe option for that reason alone.
Harder to find one equipped the way I'd like
Wary of immediate pre-bankruptcy GM cars, since I feel (from hearing about the STS' problems from the same era) that a C6 has a much better chance of being a Friday afternoon car. This may be unfounded due to where they are built, but I don't really know.



I would definitely prefer an automatic (this is replacing a Cadillac, after all, and I already have two uncompromisingly sporty cars with sticks) and certainly on the C5, but that wouldn't be an absolute deal breaker if I was to find one equipped perfectly except for that. Especially if Tiptronics are 4T60E-style hand grenades; plus I'm assuming for the Porsches the stick is much better anyway (which isn't necessarily the case for the C5, at least). But still, leaning slushbox.



I plan on starting the "drive all over the tri-state area to test drive and scope out models" thing that I did when looking for a C4 a couple years ago in April or late March (depending on weather), so the only model I've driven so far is the C5 (on an unrelated event). That does mean that I don't know how the others drive, which may be a deciding factor in and of itself. From a week and a half or so poking around, it seems like every time someone asks something along these lines on the internet (even on Porsche and Corvette forums) the answer tends to be "they're all great options", so was kinda curious.
Does anyone have any experience or knowledge on 996s or Coxsters? Or is there another thing I'm overlooking? Feel like these are the four best ideas for my needs, but up until a couple weeks ago my thoughts were pretty exclusively focused on C5s with a C6 being a fringe option so...

 

[Danoff]

The E46 M3 SMG is a very undervalued "automatic". Not sure if you considered that.

 

[homeforsummer]

My immediate choice would be the Cayman, and I can't imagine it'd be any more expensive to maintain than the 996, though access to mechanicals is obviously less good. On the flip side, I believe early Caymans aren't immune to some of the engine issues of 996/997s - though from what I understand, non-S Boxsters and Caymans seem less afflicted than S models whose larger engines were more similar to those of 911s. I do wonder how many cars are really afflicted any more anyway though - I'd have thought the bad ones were either dead or repaired by now.

 

[Tornado]

M3 SMG sounds like a pretty terrifying hole to fall into and never climb out of, if the "former owners" on the internet are honest. I already have a car where if anything involving the German-sourced transmission has problems you're out several thousand to start.

 

[Danoff]

M3 SMG sounds like a pretty terrifying hole to fall into and never climb out of, if the "former owners" on the internet are honest. I already have a car where if anything involving the German-sourced transmission has problems you're out several thousand to start.

Well they're more than several thousand undervalued so you're all set.

I haven't driven any of those cars, so my opinion on the matter is pretty much worthless. But I'd probably go 996 from a value standpoint. I think that one has more upside than the others.

 

[Danoff]

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge on 996s or Coxsters?

My plan to rectify not having driven either of those is to rent them on turo for a day to check them out. If you have experience enough with driving them then that's not a very helpful suggestion for you. Just figured i'd mention it since I had not heard of the website until very recently.

 

[Tornado]

I looked around at Turo but unless I'm using it wrong I don't see anything near me on the site. Granted, Bum:censored:, New York probably isn't where sites like that are designed to cater to.

 

[Danoff]

I looked around at Turo but unless I'm using it wrong I don't see anything near me on the site. Granted, Bum:censored:, New York probably isn't where sites like that are designed to cater to.

Bummer. Well it was worth a shot. Maybe next time you're on vacation or something.

 

[Tornado]

An update, now that I've been around almost all of the ones on the list:

C5
Pros:
Rides nice. Great engine/transmission pairing. Quiet. Smooth. With a slushbox, it honestly pretty much drives like the car it is functionally replacing when just putting around; just with a hell of a lot more shove in the very low RPMs. Absolutely astonishing amounts of space in a car that isn't that large. Would be easy to replace the stereo in. Also different enough from the one I already have that I wouldn't feel terribly concerned about getting bored with it; since it does drive so differently.

Cons:
Good lord, these things feel huge when you're driving them. Like it's like I was driving the Seville, if the seat was about 4 inches further from the dash, 2 inches further from the outer part of the door and 3 inches closer to the ground. Steering is pretty eh, but more importantly it's just hard to get a feel for where the car is in relation to the road since it feels so much larger than it actually is. This may be something I can get used to, as every time I drove Ayeka after not doing so for a while I'd have the same experience; but I'm given significant pause.



996
Pros:
Interior is basically perfect. I mean, like, not quality wise. Interior is substantially better than I was lead to believe; but it's certainly not particularly better than a C5 (which itself was one everyone always bitched about and already knew wasn't as bad as you always hear). And not stuff wise, though generally they are equipped about the same as the C5's I've seen (PSM is the main thing missing usually). But seating position? Exterior visibility? Flawless. And the one I'm looking at already has IMS/RMS taken care of, and is a Targa so it's even easier to see out of.

Cons:
Good heavens, bore scoring sounds terrifying. Even moreso than IMS since it doesn't seem like there's anything you can actually do to prevent it other than "choose one that it won't happen to". I also didn't look a past boroscope up in the service records of the other one as I had been lead to believe that the issue was primarily something that affected earlier cars, when it is in fact the opposite.



987
Pros:
Basically everything about the 996, but a little better across the board (other than visibility). They seem to wear even worse, but there's otherwise a lot of little things that Porsche clearly put effort into improving and they seem to have more space for stuff since they didn't bother making space for seats. It also seems, looking things up, like it would be way easier to do stereo work on them.

Cons:
Harder to find one that's not thrashed than 996s; and even hard to find ones that aren't equipped like Cavaliers. I'd probably want a 987.2 just for peace of mind, and it seems like sales fell off a cliff at that point, making those two problems even worse. I'm still not as convinced of these in the snow as I am the 996 or even the C5, either.



C6
lol. Didn't even bother. I know these are better than C5's in terms of getting lost in them and on the road, since they are more snug and smaller, but eh. Still not big on them.






There's something I'm going to go look at this weekend, a secret 5th option I didn't think of until after this thread was made, but I may end up with something after this weekend nonetheless.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

As an M96 (2.5L) owner (going on 3 years now!) this is what I have to say about IMS and Bore/Porosity issues: If the engine hasn't failed yet because of these issues, it is probably not going to. Almost all of them that did fail, failed below 40k miles. That said, it's a good idea to change the IMS if you are doing a clutch. Also, you can pick up second hand M96 engines for not very much money. I've also heard the automatic M96 cars have a far lower rate of IMS failure compared to manual cars....perhaps due to manual owners lugging their engines (which theoretically could put some non-axial load on the crankshaft and IMS). My Boxster has about 52k miles on it now (bought it with 41k I believe) and it's been....pretty good actually. I've had a decent amount of downtime with the car primarily because I don't need to drive anywhere so some issues I've just sat on for a while instead of fixing. Some of the plastics that Porsche used in that era weren't very good. My coolant reservoir started leaking and it was $900 to get it replaced. I think the 996 is probably a little easier/simple to work on just by nature of having simple access to the engine...but I've done maintenance on my car and it wasn't really that bad.

The 996s look better every day. I think, one day, people will come to appreciate the fried-eggs. I've always liked them. 👍

Just wondering....have you looked at the Lexus RC350 F Sport? It's a lot different/not as sporty than the others, but it's got a great interior and nearly in budget. Also a lot newer and more luxurious. Or a 370z? Not a great cabin, definitely, but could it be worse than a C5 Corvette? The 7 speed automatic in those is pretty nice. Audi S5?

 

[Tornado]

Even speaking as someone who is seriously considering buying a 16 year old 911 for use as a year round daily-ish driver, as someone who bought several American cars with decades old electronic adjustable shocks and has another still in my shortlist, as someone who only sold off a 16 year old Northstar Cadillac because I ran out of stuff to fix/improve on it; there's not a low enough sale price in the world to convince me to take a secondhand Audi of any vintage and try to use it as the "will definitely provide transportation" car of the three I'd have. I suspect I'd make better use of the money spent if I set it on fire to power a hot air balloon.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Even speaking as someone who is seriously considering buying a 16 year old 911 for use as a year round daily-ish driver, as someone who bought several American cars with decades old electronic adjustable shocks and has another still in my shortlist, as someone who only sold off a 16 year old Northstar Cadillac because I ran out of stuff to fix/improve on it; there's not a low enough sale price in the world to convince me to take a secondhand Audi of any vintage and try to use it as the "will definitely provide transportation" car of the three I'd have. I suspect I'd make better use of the money spent if I set it on fire to power a hot air balloon.

Somehow this reminded of one of my favorite quotes I saw somewhere about GM cars. "GM cars will run badly longer than most cars will run at all"

 

[Doog]

These seem like the type of cars that would replace the C4 Corvette rather than the Seville. What if you end up with two Corvettes?

 

[Tornado]

What if you end up with two Corvettes?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think you should get a C4 ZR-1!!

 

[Heldenzeit]

See, I've read the opposite regarding IMS failures on manual cars. Manual cars typically get driven harder, which allows the oil to heat up more than it would with a lazy Auto driver. 911 drivers that were used to revving out the engine in air cooled times showed less failures, probably relating to higher oil pressure at increased engine speed.

No idea if my 141k mile IMS has been replaced hah. Definitely going to do it when I change the clutch.

....and flywheel, and air oil separator, and RMS.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Out of curiosity, have you considered a 997? I found a few on AutoTrader for sale less than $25k.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Out of curiosity, have you considered a 997? I found a few on AutoTrader for sale less than $25k.

I have a sneaking suspicion this is the mystery choice #5.

....and flywheel, and air oil separator, and RMS.

M96 life.

 

[Tornado]

She has been decided.

 

[Wiegert]

I can't believe you went with option 5

Spoiler

 

[Crash]

I'm a little late but a couple of things.

I echo Eunos_Cosmo on this. The IMS bearing issue does exist but is overblown. If the car is in the late x0000 miles, approaching 100k, and the IMS hasn't failed, it is really unlikely that it will fail suddenly. I have only heard of bore scoring being in issue in 997s and never on 996s. Is that an issue for 996 as well?

On the 996, I think the engine mounts are a common wear-ish item that shows itself by saggy tailpipes. They are fairly easy to replace since you just unbolt the mount one at a time while supporting the engine from below.

The 987.2 Boxster/Cayman are supposedly some of the most reliable recent Porsche's. They have a pretty bulletproof reputation in the Porsche community.

The 996 is a wonderful drive. They feel small, light and nimble, with a delicious steering that tells you exactly what is going on. Unfortunately, a C4 will dull the front end a little bit, but the rest of the car will remain just as wonderful. Even at low speeds, it's a fun car. These are incredible values for what they are. If I didn't already have my other cars, a 996 would be high on my daily driving list.

 

[Tornado]

The ATS coupe from the side looks like one of those motion-based optical illusions. I keep tilting my head to the left because it looks like it is actively sinking into the ground in the front.

Pour one out for the ATS: Cadillac's daring rival to the E46 that debuted two model generations removed from its benchmark.

Capacitive controls for regularly adjusted functions (radio, HVAC), regardless of if it is through a touchscreen or a separate control stack.

Sheesh.


Well, thanks for all the help at least, guys. Sorry that my innate cowardice completely took over once I looked up what bore scoring was re: 996.

 

[Tornado]

Bye Ayeka II. It was cool to pay you off two years early. As much as I loved it and even after putting big ass sway bars and chassis braces on it, I never quite got over not having a Porsche. Also I moved to the south so AWD seems like a waste.


: (​

Anyway. This time I've changed my options a tiny bit; and now my budget is $40,000:

Preferred Choice #1:

​

These are now a fair bit more expensive than they were two years ago; and I'm not sure if it's just because of These Unprecedented Times or if it's because people finally actually want them. Either way, I'm not sure I'll get another chance at one.

Preferred Choice #2:

​

I think I'd much rather have one of these than a 987 Coxster now; not for nothing because I've seen two more years of those 987 interiors disintegrating even worse than any 996/986 interior ever did and 987.2s aren't much less expensive now than the 981s even though the 981s are superior in every possible way. There is some niceness in the sense that I'll not need to futz with the stereo or anything at all unless I decide I care about the navigation maps being out of date. The best car here objectively, undoubtedly; and I might accept a PDK for one of these instead of just a manual so the easiest to find one.

Preferred Choice #3:

A new car? Actually contributing to the continued life of manual transmissions? The hell you say? My main issue with these is that they don't have navigation and while they will be substantially cheaper than the above two those are also better than this. No navigation is hella lame, too. And not even an option for a sunroof.

Dark Horse Choice #1:

​

The main reason these have dropped out of the running is because as insane as the used car market has been for all cars, for some ungodly reason the used market for Corvettes has been half again worse. I'm not paying 30 grand for a C5 (more than most Z06s!) with an option package that wasn't remotely rare.

Dark Horse Choice #2:

I still like C5s much more, and I've finally decided once and for all that base C6s are not good looking cars. So I'd need a Grand Sport, and those are more expensive than I feel they probably should be (albeit not as clinically insane as 50th Anniversary C5 prices) relative to a normal C6.

Dark Horse Choice #2:

I don't think a C4 Corvette should be the "practical car" that a Miata would force it to be. I love these, and I fit in them much better than I thought, but that's a lotta money to spend on something that's so impractical it would be forced to be a toy even though it's probably the second best car here.​

 

[unit-one]

Whaaa? Now you will have TWO weekend cars? For saturnday and sunday? xD

What do you mean no navigation in the BRZ? You can't use android auto or apple car play? I use android auto and google maps for navigation. Works good. =)

Hm... I think you should choose a Porsche since that's the reason you are selling the Cadillac. Otherwise you will regret again.
In other hand getting the BRZ will give you no repair costs and it's a relatively cheap car for your budget, more money for tuning. =)

EDIT: What about this one? =)

 

[GranTurNismo]

How about a 997?

 

[Tornado]

From everything I can tell, 997 has all the problems of the 996 but the interior is more expensive to fix when it also begins disintegrating and the car itself costs much more to buy. I'd only be interested in a 997.2 and I can't afford one of them.




tbh I don't think the styling in it has aged as well either.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

997.2s are going to the moon in value.

I'm torn between the 996 (fried egg alliance) and the 981 (midship dreams). Ultimately, I like the 981 out of the options on your list. The DI engine doesn't have the same fragility issues as the M96 does and they truly do look special when you see them on the road. I would love to own one. It's a simple thing, but every time I see the (real!) side intakes on my car, I remember how special it is to own a mid-engined car, and the side intakes on the 981 are particularly sexy. Also, the rear fender cleavage on MR Porsches is just hot. Join the midship club!

The only reason I would suggest keeping the 987.2 in the running is that they have more of an honest, old school feel and I think they look a little more athletic than the 981s which look a little bloated from some angles...particularly the rear. I agree that the 987 interior has not aged particularly well though - I never liked the design. It's not exuberant like the 986/996 nor as well detailed and cohesive as the 981. It just looks sort of there.

 

[Heldenzeit]

My 996 was 1000x easier to work on than my C4 was. 😆

 

[GranTurNismo]

@Tornado Have you also considered the Maserati GranTurismo? Most of the earlier model cars seem to be in your price range. Not to mention, it's a beautiful car and seems to fit all of your boxes.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

@Tornado Have you also considered the Maserati GranTurismo? Most of the earlier model cars seem to be in your price range. Not to mention, it's a beautiful car and seems to fit all of your boxes.