The Best Car
- Thread starter craigmack
- 24 comments
- 944 views
- 19,311
- Inland Empire SoCal
- SOLID_LIFTERS
The Ford Model A. It was the seed car for hot rodding in the 1920's, which then turned into car racing in America.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
I don't think a single car can lay claim to being the 'greatest' ever made. Such a question presumes that a single car can be EVERYTHING to EVERYONE that cares about cars. I don't feel this can ever happen based on cultural and geographical reasons. After all, different people have different ideas about what is great.
Now, if you were to change your question to "Greatest Sport Car" of all time, you would get closer to an answer. I think since we're here, we are sports car fans. But even then, you run into the problem of historical context and the ever changing pace of technology.
I'd compromise and produce a list that spans the entire history of sports cars...
Pre WWII
1934 BMW 328
1937 Bugatti Type 37 C
1935 Dusenburg SJ
Post War
1955 Mercedes Benz 300 SL Gullwing
1962 Ferrari 250 GTO
1964 Shelby Cobra 427 S/C
1973 Porsche 911 RS 2.7
1973 BMW 3.0 CSL
1974 Lamborghini Countach
Post fuel crisis/emissions
1982 Audi Quattro
1984 Ferrari F40
1986 Porsche 959
1989 Mazda Miata
1991 Honda NSX
1994 McLaren F1
1999 Cheverolet Corvette Z06
Even this list is painful, since scores of worthy cars were left out.
///M-Spec
Now, if you were to change your question to "Greatest Sport Car" of all time, you would get closer to an answer. I think since we're here, we are sports car fans. But even then, you run into the problem of historical context and the ever changing pace of technology.
I'd compromise and produce a list that spans the entire history of sports cars...
Pre WWII
1934 BMW 328
1937 Bugatti Type 37 C
1935 Dusenburg SJ
Post War
1955 Mercedes Benz 300 SL Gullwing
1962 Ferrari 250 GTO
1964 Shelby Cobra 427 S/C
1973 Porsche 911 RS 2.7
1973 BMW 3.0 CSL
1974 Lamborghini Countach
Post fuel crisis/emissions
1982 Audi Quattro
1984 Ferrari F40
1986 Porsche 959
1989 Mazda Miata
1991 Honda NSX
1994 McLaren F1
1999 Cheverolet Corvette Z06
Even this list is painful, since scores of worthy cars were left out.
///M-Spec
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
The answer is that there isn't one.
The E34, while undoubtedly a great car, is eclipsed by its younger and older sibblings in everyway. It doesn't have the raw flingability of the E28 and lacks the outright pace of the E39. The E60 will even further outdate the car.
Besides, how could anyone argue that any of the M5s are greater cars than a Ferrari 250 GTO or McLaren F1?
///M-Spec
- 2,987
The Countach... the miata... the nsx... WHAT... I don't think those qualify as some of the greatest cars ever made for production. I mean they were full of impact in automotive history, but does that make them great???
The greatest cars were those created with the idea of going to groupe b rally... examples being the 959 and the rs200. Other greats also were derived with the idea of racing in mind... which means that any homologated car is probably worthy of greatness...
I believe that any car that was the fastest production car or race car for years after it was first created deserves the title of great. Any car that can withstand the march of technology is amazing.
The greatest cars were those created with the idea of going to groupe b rally... examples being the 959 and the rs200. Other greats also were derived with the idea of racing in mind... which means that any homologated car is probably worthy of greatness...
I believe that any car that was the fastest production car or race car for years after it was first created deserves the title of great. Any car that can withstand the march of technology is amazing.
- 650
omg.... its my 95 kia sephia
its the best cuz its mine
its the best cuz its mine
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
I think so. Great cars are ones that challenged traditional notions of what came before them, and defined new paradigms for cars that followed. They were not only great cars, but began a revolution in the way people who loved cars preceived them.
The Countach had a very deep impact on how we see a modern supercar, pure and simple. If the Miura pioneered the mid-engine layout for a super car, the Countach refined it and took it to the next logical step. It was also --far and away-- the most dramaticly styled production car the public had ever seen and even managed to out-do the Miura in that regard. The Countach broke ground for cars like the 512 BB, GTO and Testarossa. How many teenaged boys had a poster of the Countach in their bedrooms? Countless.
The Miata revived the notion of a everyman's (or everywoman's) sports car... a market niche that had been dead for decades. I don't think you can stress how important this car was (and still is) to the sports car world. Without the Miata, we would not have cars like the Boxster, Z3 or SLK. It is the best selling sports car in history... and everyone I've ever met who has owned one has very fond memories of it. (my wife and I have had 2)
I don't think I need to go into much detail on how important and revolutionary the NSX was. This car pretty much MADE Honda's reputation as Japan's leader in producing driver's cars. It broke so many outdated notions there are hardly any left. Without the NSX, we would not have a generation of Ferraris that are as great as they are today.
..I stand by my list.
///M Spec
- 2,987
You sound like the curly haired older man from top gear... on the lambo special...
As i said earlier i understand their historical impact. If that is what makes a car great, then countless others should be included, infact nearly ever sportscar in history should be included (and some other cars that might be considered luxury or family cars).
While i see your point about what makes them great cars. There are greats even among cars that should be remembered throughout history... These cars are the ones that withstood the march of technology... the ones that will always be remembered as not just revolutionary, fast, and beautiful, but the cars that have a certain legend to themself.
(i guess i just dislike the cars i pointed out lol).
- 807
Interesting...
First, you give a completely contradictory statement -- essentially saying just because they're great doesn't mean they're great -- then you present the narrow and outright silly idea that group B cars have some kind of inherent greatness.
This is far too general a topic to begin with, but ///M-Spec gave a valid and well-thought-out reply. That's pretty immature to try to tear him down with a post that basically just says "GROUP B RALLY RULES!!!!!"
advanR
(Banned)
- 1,389
thanks bengee for reminding me of the current best car. ultima GTR. cheap, non ****ty exotic, cheaper if built by self. i think does something like 0-150 in 10 secs or so. think it was 80k for prebuilt chassis, 30k for kit. drivetrain not included, but still quicker and cooler than cars costing much much more.
- 2,987
bbm...
if you read my second post i kinda... oh whatever...
alot of cars are great... but i personally think that a lot of cars that were built with the idea of group b rally are great.... 959, rs200, lancia 037... the ferrari 288 gto ( and the 5 evo versions are even more impressive) ... but i realize that those were not the only great cars ever made... just thought that it would be a good example of how homologated race cars make some of hte greatest sports cars... gt40 is another example... so are the r390 and gt1 road cars... and many more i am sure... another sure fire way of getting a fantastic car is by making hte car with every intention of making a road legal race car... the idea behind ferraris, most real lancias (pre fiat), mclaren f1, ultima gtr, and many more cars...
i did not mean to come off as one who only admires group b... and what i was trying to say is that impacting automotive development is only one aspect that makes up great cars... there are also other aspects...
and btw just because a car is a great car does not make it one of the greatest cars ever made as a production car...
i mean the 240z should then also be considered because it revolutionized the idea of a japanese sports car... and while it is an awsome car is it really great...
to me in order for a car to be one of the greatest it must have more than historical impact... if it didnt it wouldnt be worth remembering... it must always be considered fast, powerful, a brute or a beaut, and it must make people fall back in awe...
i do agree with m-spec... there are many greats... and there are fewer but still numerous cars that belong to the greatest...
and i wasn't trying to tear him down
this topic is far to general... there are way too many cars... way to many awesome cars... way to many fantastic cars.... way too many revolutionary cars... and way to many fast cars...
if you read my second post i kinda... oh whatever...
alot of cars are great... but i personally think that a lot of cars that were built with the idea of group b rally are great.... 959, rs200, lancia 037... the ferrari 288 gto ( and the 5 evo versions are even more impressive) ... but i realize that those were not the only great cars ever made... just thought that it would be a good example of how homologated race cars make some of hte greatest sports cars... gt40 is another example... so are the r390 and gt1 road cars... and many more i am sure... another sure fire way of getting a fantastic car is by making hte car with every intention of making a road legal race car... the idea behind ferraris, most real lancias (pre fiat), mclaren f1, ultima gtr, and many more cars...
i did not mean to come off as one who only admires group b... and what i was trying to say is that impacting automotive development is only one aspect that makes up great cars... there are also other aspects...
and btw just because a car is a great car does not make it one of the greatest cars ever made as a production car...
i mean the 240z should then also be considered because it revolutionized the idea of a japanese sports car... and while it is an awsome car is it really great...
to me in order for a car to be one of the greatest it must have more than historical impact... if it didnt it wouldnt be worth remembering... it must always be considered fast, powerful, a brute or a beaut, and it must make people fall back in awe...
i do agree with m-spec... there are many greats... and there are fewer but still numerous cars that belong to the greatest...
and i wasn't trying to tear him down
this topic is far to general... there are way too many cars... way to many awesome cars... way to many fantastic cars.... way too many revolutionary cars... and way to many fast cars...
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
bengee's points simply underscored what I stated in my first thread: every has their own criteria for what makes a great car. Clearly, he and I have different notions of what makes a car great.
That's not to say I don't partially agree with him. I love homologation road cars. More than half my list of great cars are either homologation specials or have their roots in racing. But I don't feel that just because a road car is based on a race car automatically gives them "great car" status.
There are perhaps two dozen Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR road cars around the world. I can't imagine a road going Group C racer making a very good road car... sorry. By all accounts, the car is ridiculously firm, impossible to get into and see out of, stupidly fast, but almost unuseable on a public road. Performance wise, there can be no question it has unscrutable credentials. But by virtues of what it is, makes too many compromises to be a worthwhile road car.
Now, take an Evo VIII GSR, 911 GT3 or an E30 BMW M3 as a counter-example. Here are race cars that started as road cars. They already have road car genes, so by the time they make it BACK to being a road car, they already have the things that make them good cars to begin with. The average person can enjoy 90% of their potential without having to take it to the track --well, maybe not the GT3-- but you know what I'm getting at.
In the case of the 240Z, yes --I said my list was painfully short. I would have included it, but felt the Miata covered that base.
And I would disagree with your third paragraph there--- I submit that every car on my list, including the Miata, NSX and Countach are all worth remembering and make people fall back in awe.
The Miata owners' club in the US alone is one of the largest in the world ---they outnumber the BMWCCA and PCA put together. This car is deeply revered by its owners and has a following unmatched by any other roadster in history.
As for the NSX... heck ... drive one to any import car show. Even bone stock it will draw a small crowd in minutes.
The Countach is probably too old to draw much attention anymore, but I must add that in its prime, it commanded the awe and respect that a McLaren F1 or Ferrari Enzo does today.
///M-Spec
Similar threads
Latest Posts
-
-
Gran Turismo 7 "February" 2025 Update Prediction & Discussion Thread- Latest: jonoholland29
-
-
