As a community i think we should pull together and try to find the equation for the perfect four-wheel drift. 
Who said drifting is all style?
Who said drifting is all style?
The Elusive 4 Wheel Drift!
- Thread starter Kamui "bunta" D
- 22 comments
- 11,600 views
- 4,473
How is it Elusive? And drifting is pretty much all style since you cant really get fast times drifting every corner...
- 270
thats why you don't drift every corner 
and about the 4 wheel drift ive been only able to do it in 4wd cars
and about the 4 wheel drift ive been only able to do it in 4wd cars- 86
i think drift could be faster if use simulation tires in grip driving
- 596
Okay the 4-wheel drift is really not that interesting, it's much closer to grip driving than the exhibition drifting that most of us talk about. Basically all 4 wheels are at their friction limit and are in a state of impending motion. So they are sliding just a little but not enough to really notice it(well if you were the driver you would notice). This is real race drifting and it is the fastest way around almost any corner. But like i said it has almost nothing to do with the sideways stuff we all know and love.
Humm.. im going to do some more research on this to make sure I have the right idea. If anyone knows a site about real driving techniques, like the real theory that you would have to learn if you wanted to become a professional race car driver. Please post it.
Humm.. im going to do some more research on this to make sure I have the right idea. If anyone knows a site about real driving techniques, like the real theory that you would have to learn if you wanted to become a professional race car driver. Please post it.
- 86
thats what i meant ...
- 105
"CARS: Panda Hachi-Roku(AE86) / Black GH-CT9A(EVO Lancer 6) "
Bunta,
The Lancer Evo VI's chassis is the CP9A... The Evo VII is the CT9A...
Bunta,
The Lancer Evo VI's chassis is the CP9A... The Evo VII is the CT9A...
- 4,473
4WD can do real drifts. And they look good (with all fours spinning) 
, did a few with my Subaru WRX and my skyline...
, did a few with my Subaru WRX and my skyline...- 105
Errr... A four wheel drift is just drifting where all four wheels do not have traction. Can be done with all drivetrain types, whether FWD, RWD, 4WD. When all four wheels are not spinning at the rate of actual grip, then it's four wheel drifting. For example, a power-slide is not a four wheel drift.
- 596
Drifting is a term that does not really have a definition set in stone. Some people consider the description in my last post as the definition, everything else is just "sliding".
I like to think of "drifting" as the exhibition stuff that most of us do here, including 4WD drifting. And if you can get sideways in a 4WD car then all your wheels are sliding. I dont consider that a 4-wheel drift.
Well I can't explain what a 4 wheel drift is, because Im not exactly sure myself, I don't have any real references to back up any of my ideas besides a few random articles, some drifting videos and bunch of posts in forums; none of this stuff is really reliable. But from this junk I sort out what I think is crap, and keep what seems to make sense and try to figure out what is right.
I just remembered where I found some of the stuff I talked about before.
Drifting is that fine line of control just before an uncontrolled skid. In racing, a car is usually considered to be drifting when all of its wheels are slipping, but the front wheels are still more-or-less pointed in the direction of the corner, or at least straight. Beyond that, when the car gets more sideways and even harder to control, its sliding. Drifting is the fastest way through a corner, and makes full use of the tires capabilities. But sliding is not the fastest way. Although sliding sideways, with the tail of the car hanging out and the steering in full opposite lock, looks spectacular, its slow. And it causes excessive tire wear. (Taken from the GT2 manual and can be found here http://www.geocities.com/go2initiald/main.html )
According to this, our forum should be called the sliding forum since drifting really isnt what we do.
If any one has any references that contradict these statements I would love to read them.
Damn I whish I could have posted this in that dont hate drifting thread where all those grip drivers were bashing drifting, when in fact they probably do more drifting (according to GT2) than we do.
- 105
Granted, I was merely touching on the issue of traction in drifting, and by no way was that to define drifting in any detail. I took it that people already know the concept of drifting in here.
All the points of drifting being known, it was a matter of what a 4-wheel-drift is. As for 4WD cars, they can be superior to RWD cars while drifting. However, it is harder to start a drift with a 4WD. I guess most would agree that the critical criteria of drifting is that the car is going in the direction that is intended, while the actual direction of movement and the direction the car is facing is different. Also, the steering wheels dictate the direction. All this, while none of the wheels are gripping. This is how a 4-wheel-drift is differentiated from the powerslide.
And it's not all about getting sideways, it's about the difference in the moving direction of the car, the direction the car (the whole car, not the steering) is pointing, and the steering direction. And of course, all this while getting the car to go where you want it to.
Sliding usually denotes loss of control to some degree.
Oh yeah... I was talking about in real life... Not as familiar about how well it translates into GT3. I don't play enough
All the points of drifting being known, it was a matter of what a 4-wheel-drift is. As for 4WD cars, they can be superior to RWD cars while drifting. However, it is harder to start a drift with a 4WD. I guess most would agree that the critical criteria of drifting is that the car is going in the direction that is intended, while the actual direction of movement and the direction the car is facing is different. Also, the steering wheels dictate the direction. All this, while none of the wheels are gripping. This is how a 4-wheel-drift is differentiated from the powerslide.
And it's not all about getting sideways, it's about the difference in the moving direction of the car, the direction the car (the whole car, not the steering) is pointing, and the steering direction. And of course, all this while getting the car to go where you want it to.
Sliding usually denotes loss of control to some degree.
Oh yeah... I was talking about in real life... Not as familiar about how well it translates into GT3. I don't play enough
- 15
Four wheel drift doesn't have to be in a 4WD. A four wheel drift is where all four tires are under a controlled slide.
Anyways, some of the techniques I know are:
-- Stiffen the suspension, stiffen the brakes
-- Drift isn't always the answer. For fast times, sometimes griping is MUCH faster.
-- Master the third point! Its hard to explain, but start your corner before the corner begins. This decreases your turn-in, and your counter-steer also drops. Plus, if you have achieved the maximum understeer, you can no handed drift in lines controlled through throttle and brake (more throttle is better).
-- If your racing, it may look spectacular, but ultra-sideways drift is slower than a MiniCouper on the uphill. The secret is a straight-line philosophy, where your car is as sideways as necessary to be in the best line at the exit (by best line, I include best grip potential to lay on the throttle).
I practice all the techniques, and they work. I'm not perfect, though, especially when it comes to no handed drift. I am still looking for the right lines. If anyone knows any, please let me know!
Anyways, some of the techniques I know are:
-- Stiffen the suspension, stiffen the brakes
-- Drift isn't always the answer. For fast times, sometimes griping is MUCH faster.
-- Master the third point! Its hard to explain, but start your corner before the corner begins. This decreases your turn-in, and your counter-steer also drops. Plus, if you have achieved the maximum understeer, you can no handed drift in lines controlled through throttle and brake (more throttle is better
).-- If your racing, it may look spectacular, but ultra-sideways drift is slower than a MiniCouper on the uphill. The secret is a straight-line philosophy, where your car is as sideways as necessary to be in the best line at the exit (by best line, I include best grip potential to lay on the throttle).
I practice all the techniques, and they work. I'm not perfect, though, especially when it comes to no handed drift. I am still looking for the right lines. If anyone knows any, please let me know!
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Well done, TruenoAE86! Please keep posting good information like this. I'm not here to start a war between drifters and racers; I just hate to see bad information spread around. TruenoAE86's posts above are the real thing.
True four-wheel drift is caused by distortion in each tire. Cornering forces cause the chassis to push sideways on the tire, through the wheel. However, the contact patch resists this force due to traction. The opposing forces casue the tire sidewall to flex, distorting the tire where it is not touching the ground. This means that as each portion of the tire rotates under and becomes the contact patch, it touches the ground slightly to the outside of the part that was previously on the road. This causes a slight lateral motion of the car as it proceeds around the turn, which is defined as drift angle or slip angle. Under these circumstances, the car maintains traction throughout the turn, although it is at the very edge of the adhesion limit.
- 4,473
Why do these threads turn into some intellectual, technical talk ? Its like those debating shows on TV 
...
? Its like those debating shows on TV ...
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Because some people hate to see incorrect information passed around as truth. Unfortunately the internet makes that even easier to do than it used to be. So some people try to correct this misinformation in the vain hope that somebody cares.
- 596
Thanks neon_duke I appreciate it, and thanks for the info about "drift/slip angles" I didnt really understand how that worked; now it makes perfect sense.
- 1,494
in my opinion an easy way to tell if you are 4 wheel drifting or not is to see how much counter steer u are applying, if its minimal then its a 4 wheel drift, otherwise u are sliding too much and u are 'exhibition drifting', what do u think of that?
paul
paul
- 105
That's not how it's defined at all. Four wheel drifts have been described already, and is not determined by counter steering. Exhibition drifting is just the name used to describe drifting that is exactly what it says, for exhibition. This is to denote that this sort of drifting is not necessarily the most efficient drifts in terms of racing performance. So, you can use any type of drifts in 'exhibition drifting'.
- 66
LoL !
86 and nuke are in LOVE , heh heh heh joking joking !
there is an ideal line of each corner. front wheles fallow that line parallelly without spining, BUT spine rear wheles to CONTROLL DIRECTIONS with. less throttle less turning, more throttle more turning force. some time throttle+brake has to work together. the front wheles always fallow that ideal line from into corner till exit corner without smoking. That is what 4wheles drifts about.
you never smoke your front tires ! the air inside tires gets heat up, you will lose front traction. FR drifting is to manage front tires in best condition as possible.
1. front tires paralle with the ideal line from in to out.
2. controll dircetions with throttle, not your steering whele.
86 and nuke are in LOVE , heh heh heh joking joking !
there is an ideal line of each corner. front wheles fallow that line parallelly without spining, BUT spine rear wheles to CONTROLL DIRECTIONS with. less throttle less turning, more throttle more turning force. some time throttle+brake has to work together. the front wheles always fallow that ideal line from into corner till exit corner without smoking. That is what 4wheles drifts about.
you never smoke your front tires ! the air inside tires gets heat up, you will lose front traction. FR drifting is to manage front tires in best condition as possible.
1. front tires paralle with the ideal line from in to out.
2. controll dircetions with throttle, not your steering whele.
Because everything else is B.S.Originally posted by Frustrated Palm
Why do these threads turn into some intellectual, technical talk
In all seriousness what we need is more technical talk. Especially this being the "Drift forum" the more technical we get the more of us will understand what drifting is and hopefully get better at it as a result.
Dispell the myths and hope that blatantly wrong technical info (or ill-informed opinions based on blatantly wrong technical info) won't get passed around.
